Chelsea reach agreement to sign Cesc Fábregas

[Dominos]

It'd be £25m for us - that's the buy-back clause.

What's the deal here then? At any point you can bid 25m for Fabregas and it's then up to Cesc if he wants to join you or not?

 

[Dominos]

We have a buy-out clause - unless we choose not to exercise it, no deal can be done with another club. We will exercise it if he wants to leave Barca (still unlikely IMO). He's not coming to Man Utd, just forget it and chase Kroos or some other chimera.

This strikes me as bollocks. If Barca accept an offer from both Arsenal and another club, Cesc has no choice but to join Arsenal?

 

[GloryHunter07]

Great player but he used us last summer.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I think some United fans are being incredibly cocky about just how much this season might impact them five years down the line.

You're going to have to throw more money around this summer than the Glazers have ever spent. And as MUST like to say, there's been a lack of investment since 2009.

No offence buddy, I think if anybody has to worry more, it's Arsenal.

For the last few years you have always had a dog fight to get into the CL. It's never been certain with your club.
Even with Utd out of the picture this season, Everton ran you close
We chose Moyes this season, and it clearly backfired, but if we do things right in the coming summer, I fully expect us to get back into a CL spot quite comfortably.

If we do, who is going to drop out. I think it would be between you and Liverpool

 

[RoadTrip]

What's the deal here then? At any point you can bid 25m for Fabregas and it's then up to Cesc if he wants to join you or not?

No - that is nonsense.

The clause will be that should Barcelona accept a bid from any team, Arsenal can bid the same and Barcelona will have to accept it.

 

[alastair]

No offence buddy, I think if anybody has to worry more, it's Arsenal.

For the last few years you have always had a dog fight to get into the CL. It's never been certain with your club.
Even with Utd out of the picture this season, Everton ran you close
We chose Moyes this season, and it clearly backfired, but if we do things right in the coming summer, I fully expect us to get back into a CL spot quite comfortably.

If we do, who is going to drop out. I think it would be between you and Liverpool

It's a dog fight because finishing top four is very difficult to do. I get told every year we'll drop out, but 17 years later we're still there like a cockroach in a post-apocalyptic world.

The reality is that you're being supremely over-confident.

There are at least three sides in this division with the capability to spend a fair amount of money in the summer to improve squads that are already considerably better than yours.

Every time I look at your squad, I find myself in disbelief at how long it's been allowed to deteriorate. The midfield options are non-existent, whilst you have a regeneration problem in defence as well.

These are not quick fixes. It's not as easy to say that you'll ship Valencia, Young, Fletcher, Carrick and Cleverley in the summer and buy five shiny new replacements.

Of course, you might do it, but history tells us it's incredibly difficult to recover so quickly.

 

[Red Shorts]

Great player but he used us last summer.

Hardly; he simply came out and said " I don't want to join you, I am happy here". Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Red Dreams]

all the indications are we will try and do a Man City. Will it succeed is a question. But we will spend big. Just because of the huge pressure of sponsors and investors.

 

[peterstorey]

You won't do a Man City, even Man City and Chelsea don't do that any more.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

It's a dog fight because finishing top four is very difficult to do. I get told every year we'll drop out, but 17 years later we're still there like a cockroach in a post-apocalyptic world.

The reality is that you're being supremely over-confident.

There are at least three sides in this division with the capability to spend a fair amount of money in the summer to improve squads that are already considerably better than yours.

Every time I look at your squad, I find myself in disbelief at how long it's been allowed to deteriorate. The midfield options are non-existent, whilst you have a regeneration problem in defence as well.

These are not quick fixes. It's not as easy to say that you'll ship Valencia, Young, Fletcher, Carrick and Cleverley in the summer and buy five shiny new replacements.

Of course, you might do it, but history tells us it's incredibly difficult to recover so quickly.

I totally understand where you are coming from.
I think it is easier to recover at the first try. If that doesn't happen, thats when I think it becomes more difficult

I don't think I am being totally over confident, but I do believe the club will do the right things this time around.
SAF went with his choice, and he chose a manager who he expected to do the business.

This time round, we will make the choice on a manager with some successful history. I am not saying Van Gaal is the perfect choice, but he knows what he is doing.
I think the Glazers will invest. They know the important of the CL, and they will want to ensure they protect their investment.

It's also been a great achievement, what you have done to keep in the CL every year, because like you said, every year, people expect you to drop out.
I think Liverpool could struggle, and even they may drop out of the CL. The last time they got into the champions league was after they finished 2nd in the 08/09 seasons. The season they played in the CL, they also finished 7th, so it won't be as easy as they think it will be to get top 4 again

 

[Eboue]

I totally understand where you are coming from.
I think it is easier to recover at the first try. If that doesn't happen, thats when I think it becomes more difficult

I don't think I am being totally over confident, but I do believe the club will do the right things this time around.
SAF went with his choice, and he chose a manager who he expected to do the business.

This time round, we will make the choice on a manager with some successful history. I am not saying Van Gaal is the perfect choice, but he knows what he is doing.
I think the Glazers will invest. They know the important of the CL, and they will want to ensure they protect their investment.

It's also been a great achievement, what you have done to keep in the CL every year, because like you said, every year, people expect you to drop out.
I think Liverpool could struggle, and even they may drop out of the CL. The last time they got into the champions league was after they finished 2nd in the 08/09 seasons. The season they played in the CL, they also finished 7th, so it won't be as easy as they think it will be to get top 4 again

All of the competitors for top four spots already have successful managers and arguably better squads too. And they will have had the advantage of not bringing in a new manager and many new players in the next season.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

You won't do a Man City, even Man City and Chelsea don't do that any more.

That's most likely because it's a one off thing, to get themselves up to the level of squads their rivals have or should I say had.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

All of the competitors for top four spots already have successful managers and arguably better squads too. And they will have had the advantage of not bringing in a new manager and many new players in the next season.

City, Chelsea and Everton all had new managers.

As for better squads, I believe that is true of Chelsea and City, but I think Liverpool and Arsenal, along with ours are all of similar standard

 

[Eboue]

City, Chelsea and Everton all had new managers.

As for better squads, I believe that is true of Chelsea and City, but I think Liverpool and Arsenal, along with ours are all of similar standard

They won't have new managers next year.


As for squads, I don't think that is at all true.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

They won't have new managers next year.


As for squads, I don't think that is at all true.

My point was they all had new managers this year, and have done as expected or over achieved.

Who has better squads? I think people look at our squad as poor simply because of where we are. If it wasn't for the negative tactics throughout the seasons, we would have looked better.

 

[Eboue]

My point was they all had new managers this year, and have done as expected or over achieved.

Who has better squads? I think people look at our squad as poor simply because of where we are. If it wasn't for the negative tactics throughout the seasons, we would have looked better.

Who among your defenders would start for Arsenal? Rafael yes, but no one else. Arsenal also have a better midfield and better wingers. Forward is an edge but Giroud did just score his 22nd goal this year. Liverpool lacks depth but I would take their midfield and forwards without a second thought.

Put it this way, every team is going to try to strengthen over the summer. Manchester United are 10 yards back of the starting line. They may catch up, but it won't be easy.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Who among your defenders would start for Arsenal? Rafael yes, but no one else. Arsenal also have a better midfield and better wingers. Forward is an edge but Giroud did just score his 22nd goal this year. Liverpool lacks depth but I would take their midfield and forwards without a second thought.

Put it this way, every team is going to try to strengthen over the summer. Manchester United are 10 yards back of the starting line. They may catch up, but it won't be easy.

Would be interesting to see a starting 11 made up from both squads.. if it were a 4-4-2 formation for example I'd definitely say De Gea, Rooney and Van Persie are in there, when it comes to midfield we are a no show but defense, especially in the full back positions would be interesting.

We need to strengthen this summer, every Tom, Dick and Harry knows this but I don't think we are a million miles away from Arsenal and especially Liverpool who outside their starting 11 aren't really stocked with talent in my opinion.

 

[Eboue]

Would be interesting to see a starting 11 made up from both squads.. if it were a 4-4-2 formation for example I'd definitely say De Gea, Rooney and Van Persie are in there, when it comes to midfield we are a no show but defense, especially in the full back positions would be interesting.

We need to strengthen this summer, every Tom, Dick and Harry knows this but I don't think we are a million miles away from Arsenal and especially Liverpool who outside their starting 11 aren't really stocked with talent in my opinion.

Players who wouldn't be in Arsenal's starting 11:

Oxlade Chamberlain
Rosicky
Arteta
Podolski
Diaby
Jenkinson
Monreal
Vermaelen


I think that's quite a lot of depth.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Players who wouldn't be in Arsenal's starting 11:

Oxlade Chamberlain
Rosicky
Arteta
Podolski
Diaby
Jenkinson
Monreal
Vermaelen


I think that's quite a lot of depth.

I didn't say Arsenal didn't have depth.. I said Liverpool didn't have depth though the likes of Diaby, Jenkinson, Monreal aren't first teamers for a reason.

 

[Eboue]

I didn't say Arsenal didn't have depth.. I said Liverpool didn't have depth though the likes of Diaby, Jenkinson, Monreal aren't first teamers for a reason.

I thought we were comparing squads of Manchester United to Arsenal. In which case, Diaby as 6th choice CM is quite good and Monreal/Jenkinson are surely better than Buttner/Smalling as right back.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Who among your defenders would start for Arsenal? Rafael yes, but no one else. Arsenal also have a better midfield and better wingers. Forward is an edge but Giroud did just score his 22nd goal this year. Liverpool lacks depth but I would take their midfield and forwards without a second thought.

Put it this way, every team is going to try to strengthen over the summer. Manchester United are 10 yards back of the starting line. They may catch up, but it won't be easy.

Right now, with the shape and everything, yes, Liverpool starting 11 is better, but squad, no. They lack total depth.

As for the comparison between us.
I think we have the best keeper. Right back will be dependent on who you buy, left back will be dependent on who we buy.
Center backs. I don't think there is much in it. Again, I would say you would slightly be ahead of us, but again, there is quite a big chance we will strengthen there also

In midfield, you are superior. I won't deny that. Right now it is our weak point in the team. Again, we will probably improve there, but to what extent, I don't know.
LW / RW. I think ours have under performed, but I wouldn't say there is huge differences there. Do you shade it? On this seasons performances, I would say yes
ATM, You have Ozil, we have Mata.... I think hey are very similar when it comes to quality, the difference is, the depth is better at your end.
Up front, when fit and everything. Ours is superior. Rooney, RVP, Hernandez and Welbeck vs Giroud, Sanogo and Bendter (oh wait, he is the worlds best player)

But seriously, I don't think there is much in it, at all. I do think we will spend more than you this season though.
A good team doesn't turn bad over night (I am the first to admit, I don't think we should have won the league last season), but it was the poor management from Moyes, with his negative tactics, that ruined our season, but I do blame the players also.

 

[Eboue]

Walcott, Cazorla, Podolski, Gnaby, Oxlade-Chamberlain
or
Nani, Valenica, Young, Januzaj


I know which set I would prefer. Overall, you are right that there isn't much between the sides. In that situation, I would say that having an established manager and not having to bed in half a dozen new players makes a world of difference.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

I thought we were comparing squads of Manchester United to Arsenal. In which case, Diaby as 6th choice CM is quite good and Monreal/Jenkinson are surely better than Buttner/Smalling as right back.

The Arsenal squad is a squad that's been built over how many years now? It's been together a long time, same as ours though we've let ours go stale. The Arsenal squad is stronger than ours but not by a million miles like pundits and rival fans alike seem to think. The Liverpool squad however is made up of a load of players thrown together by different managers, it's starting 11 is strong but in reserve they don't have a great deal.

Also you are comparing two fullbacks in Monreal and Jenkinson to Smalling who is a center back being played out of position, of course they are better than him there, Alex Buttner is also an okay reserve, just hasn't really had many opportunities to impress though I believe Arjen Robben is still in he's back pocket from the Old Trafford game.

 

[Bebe]

I don't think players care as much as you think. Their career is more important than what fans think. Here is an interview with Ronaldo in the summer of 2011. If this happened he would have ruined his reputation with Madrid and united fans.



And Ronaldo confirmed that a return to the Premier League would certainly be on the cards were he to leave Madrid, appearing to disclose that he had been tempted by a big-money offer from Manchester City owner Sheikh Mansour.
"I think if I went from Spain it would be to the Premier League - but not now," Ronaldo was quoted as saying by the Sunday Mirror. "First we have to win the Champions League. If I went back to the Premier League it would have to be with a club in the north west. I don't like London.
"It's flattering to be offered like £20 million a year - it's very good, but I spoke to my agent and I think it's better to stay in Madrid because this year we're going to be the best. This season we are going to be a big force.
"Jose Mourhino is staying at Madrid so I stay. If he went to Chelsea then I would have left. I would have gone to Manchester City. But now he's staying, I'm staying."

No offence but I think this is bullshit. I can distinctly remember Ronaldo mockingly saying Mansour would have to buy him twenty Ferraris, or something to that effect, before he joined Manchester City. Even last summer he said something like "Well nothing is impossible, but I wouldn't go to Manchester City because my heart is at United" - or something like that. Given that the source cited is the Sunday Mirror, I would question the authenticity of those quotes.

 

[Eboue]

Also you are comparing two fullbacks in Monreal and Jenkinson to Smalling who is a center back being played out of position, of course they are better than him there, Alex Buttner is also an okay reserve, just hasn't really had many opportunities to impress though I believe Arjen Robben is still in he's back pocket from the Old Trafford game.

That's the point. We're comparing squads, not how they got there.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

That's the point. We're comparing squads, not how they got there.

That doesn't make sense. I am making the point you are comparing a natural fullback and saying he is better at RB than a natural CB.. what's that got to do with squad depth? In actual fact, although Rafael is a good RB, he is our only one other than Varela who is yet to feature, the fact you have two natural RB's makes you stronger in terms of numbers doesn't it?

 

[Eboue]

That doesn't make sense. I am making the point you are comparing a natural fullback and saying he is better at RB than a natural CB.. what's that got to do with squad depth? In actual fact, although Rafael is a good RB, he is our only one other than Varela who is yet to feature, the fact you have two natural RB's makes you stronger in terms of numbers doesn't it?

Um, yes?

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Back on topic, Cesc will properly stay at Barcelona but nothing would surprise me in football anymore. I mean I never thought it was likely seeing Robin Van Persie in a Man Utd shirt.

 

[Red Dreams]

That's most likely because it's a one off thing, to get themselves up to the level of squads their rivals have or should I say had.

agree. I don't see us spending big every season.

 

[Cal?]

Would be interesting to see a starting 11 made up from both squads.. if it were a 4-4-2 formation for example I'd definitely say De Gea, Rooney and Van Persie are in there, when it comes to midfield we are a no show but defense, especially in the full back positions would be interesting.

We need to strengthen this summer, every Tom, Dick and Harry knows this but I don't think we are a million miles away from Arsenal and especially Liverpool who outside their starting 11 aren't really stocked with talent in my opinion.

If you pick a 4-2-3-1 we'd probably have 3 of the front 4, along with De Gea and Rafael, maybe even the past his best Evra.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

If you pick a 4-2-3-1 we'd probably have 3 of the front 4, along with De Gea and Rafael, maybe even the past his best Evra.

I'd go along with that, only suggested 4-4-2 to balance out positions but yeah I think Evra vs Gibbs/Monreal is an interesting debate, especially in terms of attacking threat as none of them are really any much use in defense.

 

[alastair]

Gibbs is significantly better.

In a 4-2-3-1, I'd have De Gea (benefit of the doubt), Sagna, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Rooney, Van Persie.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Gibbs is significantly better.

In a 4-2-3-1, I'd have De Gea (benefit of the doubt), Sagna, Koscielny, Mertesacker, Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Ozil, Walcott, Rooney, Van Persie.

And with my red tinted Man Utd glasses on I'd have

DDG, Rafael, Kos, Mertesacker, Evra, Ramsey, Arteta/Carrick (really can't choose between the two despite Michael having a poor season by he's standards), Walcott, Rooney, Mata, Van Persie

 

[alastair]

And with my red tinted Man Utd glasses on I'd have

DDG, Rafael, Kos, Mertesacker, Evra, Ramsey, Arteta/Carrick (really can't choose between the two despite Michael having a poor season by he's standards), Walcott, Rooney, Mata, Van Persie

Rafael has been really poor this season and isn't anywhere near Sagna right now. Evra similar. He's probably on a par with Monreal but Gibbs has overtaken. Arteta has been competent this year without being top notch - from all accounts, Carrick has been very poor indeed. Ozil, for me, is at a level above Mata but many disagree.

It's amazing to think you can make a legitimate argument to have all of Arsenal's back 4 over United's when only 18 months ago you'd have been laughed out of town.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Rafael has been really poor this season and isn't anywhere near Sagna right now. Evra similar. He's probably on a par with Monreal but Gibbs has overtaken. Arteta has been competent this year without being top notch - from all accounts, Carrick has been very poor indeed. Ozil, for me, is at a level above Mata but many disagree.

It's amazing to think you can make a legitimate argument to have all of Arsenal's back 4 over United's when only 18 months ago you'd have been laughed out of town.

Rafael and Evra have been poor this season, Paddy has been in decline for a few seasons but if they play to their absolute best there is nothing between the four mentioned. Again maybe a bit bias but for me Juan Mata is the better off the two, I'd love to see what he could do in a Madrid team supplying the sort of players Ozil had but both are excellent players nonetheless. Arteta and Carrick for me are both very good players for not doing all that (if that makes any sense), they go quietly about their work but I think having better players beside him makes Arteta look better than he is likewise having utter shite beside him Carrick doesn't look very effective at all.

Yes and for me a large part of the blame goes to David Moyes. Okay injuries haven't helped but a settled back four is a back four that will perform as we've seen with Arsenal's this season. The fact we haven't played the same back four for more than a game a time really hasn't helped settle us defensively.

 

[El-Manos]

It's a dog fight because finishing top four is very difficult to do. I get told every year we'll drop out, but 17 years later we're still there like a cockroach in a post-apocalyptic world.

The reality is that you're being supremely over-confident.

There are at least three sides in this division with the capability to spend a fair amount of money in the summer to improve squads that are already considerably better than yours.

Every time I look at your squad, I find myself in disbelief at how long it's been allowed to deteriorate. The midfield options are non-existent, whilst you have a regeneration problem in defence as well.

These are not quick fixes. It's not as easy to say that you'll ship Valencia, Young, Fletcher, Carrick and Cleverley in the summer and buy five shiny new replacements.

Of course, you might do it, but history tells us it's incredibly difficult to recover so quickly.

Bringing in 4-5 players might make a huge difference. Great signings influence those around them as well, urging other players to do even better we saw that last year with RVP. Look how quickly Liverpool improved in the space of 1 season, if they can do it, then why can't we?

 

[alastair]

Rafael and Evra have been poor this season, Paddy has been in decline for a few seasons but if they play to their absolute best there is nothing between the four mentioned. Again maybe a bit bias but for me Juan Mata is the better off the two, I'd love to see what he could do in a Madrid team supplying the sort of players Ozil had but both are excellent players nonetheless. Arteta and Carrick for me are both very good players for not doing all that (if that makes any sense), they go quietly about their work but I think having better players beside him makes Arteta look better than he is likewise having utter shite beside him Carrick doesn't look very effective at all.

Yes and for me a large part of the blame goes to David Moyes. Okay injuries haven't helped but a settled back four is a back four that will perform as we've seen with Arsenal's this season. The fact we haven't played the same back four for more than a game a time really hasn't helped settle us defensively.

Moyes has got a lot to do with it, but as far as I can see, the issue is that one set are declining and the other isn't.

Even if Evra on his day is as good as Gibbs, there's only one direction that dual is heading. That's just one example.

The reason you haven't had a settled back four is because no-one has really performed that well within it. That's something the new manager is going to have to resolve.

 

[alastair]

Bringing in 4-5 players might make a huge difference. Great signings influence those around them as well, urging other players to do even better we saw that last year with RVP. Look how quickly Liverpool improved in the space of 1 season, if they can do it, then why can't we?

It's about the quality of those five players though. It's so difficult now given the number of teams competing over the top talents.

 

[Mister_Stubbs]

Moyes has got a lot to do with it, but as far as I can see, the issue is that one set are declining and the other isn't.

Even if Evra on his day is as good as Gibbs, there's only one direction that dual is heading. That's just one example.

The reason you haven't had a settled back four is because no-one has really performed that well within it. That's something the new manager is going to have to resolve.

To be fair, Gibbs is what, mid/early 20s? Paddy is early 30s.. natural progression/decline is going to set them both apart now though if you compared them both when in their prime again with red tinted glasses on there is only one winner.

That's true, the likes of Rio, Rafael and even Vidic at times haven't deserved to hold down a place in the team but sometimes you can play a player in to form by keeping them together, something David seems reluctant to do. As for Jones he is still raw and doesn't help being played out of position now and then whereas for me Smalling is a squad player at best and the less said about Evans the better.

 

[Siorac]

It's about the quality of those five players though. It's so difficult now given the number of teams competing over the top talents.

Liverpool's example still shows that you don't need two world-class players in every position. Their squad is considerably weaker than ours yet they're right up there this season. All Premier League teams are very flawed at this moment, the competition isn't as fierce as it's made out to be, you don't need to be perfect to compete for the title.