Chelsea reach agreement to sign Cesc Fábregas

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's sorta pointless comparing Gibbs and Evra anymore though. It seems highly unlikely he will be here next season, or if he is, I am sure he would just be a back up.
Not saying we will get Shaw, but next season, we will have to compare different players
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
To be fair, Gibbs is what, mid/early 20s? Paddy is early 30s.. natural progression/decline is going to set them both apart now though if you compared them both when in their prime again with red tinted glasses on there is only one winner.

That's true, the likes of Rio, Rafael and even Vidic at times haven't deserved to hold down a place in the team but sometimes you can play a player in to form by keeping them together, something David seems reluctant to do. As for Jones he is still raw and doesn't help being played out of position now and then whereas for me Smalling is a squad player at best and the less said about Evans the better.
Click to expand...

Evra was clearly the better player at his best. The point I'm trying to make is that United need a serious injection of players coming towards their peak because all of their best players are now nearing the end of it, or are already over the hill.
 
Siorac said:
Liverpool's example still shows that you don't need two world-class players in every position. Their squad is considerably weaker than ours yet they're right up there this season. All Premier League teams are very flawed at this moment, the competition isn't as fierce as it's made out to be, you don't need to be perfect to compete for the title.
Click to expand...

I think it is quite strong, actually. No team is quite at the top level yet but there are a lot of 8/10 sides in the league at the moment.

Five years ago, United could have the season they've just had and there wouldn't be enough quality to take 4th away from you. You're now 7th.
 
alastair said:
Evra was clearly the better player at his best. The point I'm trying to make is that United need a serious injection of players coming towards their peak because all of their best players are now nearing the end of it, or are already over the hill.
Click to expand...

I agree, in this squads prime it would have been considered one off if not the strongest in the league, problem is we've allowed the squad to go stale, to many players now in decline mixed with a few who are either not good enough full stop or are still trying to progress in their footballing careers and therefore aren't at the grade we need them to be right now.

To go along with the topic of the thread, this summer we need to bring in 3, 4 or even 5 players at the quality of Cesc but also at the stage of their footballing career, it's going to cost but it's time the Glazers put up or get out. We can't afford to have to many players now who "may" make it to get us out of the situation we've gotten ourselves in to.
 
I think a lot of our demise has been down to the manager. Not saying it's completely his fault though, the players have let us down to some extent, but I do think most of our problems fall at Moyes feet.
If, and yes, I know it is an IF, but if SAF was the manager this season, not saying we would have won the league, because I don't actually think we are better than City / Chelsea right now, but we'd have finished in the top 4, people wouldn't be discussing how bad our team is.

Moyes and his negativity has made us play / look a lot worse than we are
 
alastair said:
I think it is quite strong, actually. No team is quite at the top level yet but there are a lot of 8/10 sides in the league at the moment.

Five years ago, United could have the season they've just had and there wouldn't be enough quality to take 4th away from you. You're now 7th.
Click to expand...
Well we have 60 points now; if we win our last two games we'll end up with 66. If five years ago we had the season we've just had we would have finished fifth, three points ahead of Everton.

Neither Premier League side can claim to be 8/10 right now. City should be on the basis of the talent in their squad but their performances don't match their strength on paper and were dumped out of the CL by a colourless Barcelona side (they might be called 8/10). Chelsea have just fecked up their entire season within two weeks in quite arsenalesque fashion after struggling with creativity and finishing all season long; Liverpool have a mediocre back four, good-ish midfield, great attack and zero depth.

And these are the three best teams! We need to get our transfers right this summer, no doubt, but the task is hardly insurmountable.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
I agree, in this squads prime it would have been considered one off if not the strongest in the league, problem is we've allowed the squad to go stale, to many players now in decline mixed with a few who are either not good enough full stop or are still trying to progress in their footballing careers and therefore aren't at the grade we need them to be right now.

To go along with the topic of the thread, this summer we need to bring in 3, 4 or even 5 players at the quality of Cesc but also at the stage of their footballing career, it's going to cost but it's time the Glazers put up or get out. We can't afford to have to many players now who "may" make it to get us out of the situation we've gotten ourselves in to.
Click to expand...

5 players of that quality and we should be looking to walk the league. We need 2 or 3 signings to compete with CHelsea/City.
 
Cal? said:
5 players of that quality and we should be looking to walk the league. We need 2 or 3 signings to compete with CHelsea/City.
Click to expand...

5 players is a stretch I think, I'd be happy with 2 or 3 top class players and then a Luke Shaw and another who we can make in to a top quality player over the years. Either way it's going to hurt the Glazers cheque book this summer with any luck.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
5 players is a stretch I think, I'd be happy with 2 or 3 top class players and then a Luke Shaw and another who we can make in to a top quality player over the years. Either way it's going to hurt the Glazers cheque book this summer with any luck.
Click to expand...

Needs to be done though. We have spent less than our rivals for a number of years now, yet we make more money than any of them.
We are going to get pressured by sponsors, including Nike, and the Glazers won't want to ruin their investments.
I think the financial hit of a year out of the CL will clearly make them sit up and realise.

That being said, not that it will/wont happen but Shaw (30m), Garay (22m), Carvalho (27m), Fabregas (35/40m) Reus (40/50m). That is an investment of upwards of 170m....Maybe a bit much, but sometimes you have to spend money, to make money
 
Igor Drefljak said:
I'd be more than happy with Kroos. Would prefer Fabregas, but I wouldn't be overly fussy :lol:
Click to expand...

There are clear indications that Barcelona are willing to sell Cesc, what are the signs from Bavaria that they 'd be selling Kroos? Also, Cesc has extensive PL experience and is more than proven playing in it. Kroos has no such credentials.
 
malappapper said:
There are clear indications that Barcelona are willing to sell Cesc, what are the signs from Bavaria that they 'd be selling Kroos? Also, Cesc has extensive PL experience and is more than proven playing in it. Kroos has no such credentials.
Click to expand...

It all depends on how likely is that Kroos is willing to sign on combined with how much we are willing to offer. A £40 million offer from us is much better than losing him for nothing.
 
Mister_Stubbs said:
To be fair, Gibbs is what, mid/early 20s? Paddy is early 30s.. natural progression/decline is going to set them both apart now though if you compared them both when in their prime again with red tinted glasses on there is only one winner.

That's true, the likes of Rio, Rafael and even Vidic at times haven't deserved to hold down a place in the team but sometimes you can play a player in to form by keeping them together, something David seems reluctant to do. As for Jones he is still raw and doesn't help being played out of position now and then whereas for me Smalling is a squad player at best and the less said about Evans the better.
Click to expand...
Smalling has been our best CB this season to be fair..
 
If the rumoured Bayern changes is gonna happen..likelier he will be heading there if Arsenal are not interested in bringing him back..

Don't like him and have never rated.. Not saying he is not quality coz that'll be a lie.. Seeing our midfield crying for battlers or a bully, he won't provide that specific qualty..

We can't be dragged into this folly again this summer.. Maybe its time we start refuting some of these rumours and stop this circus surrounding our transfer dealings at present...
 
peterstorey said:
You want to buy another Fellaini instead of a footballer?
Click to expand...

Really...?
Ideally was thinking of a Gattuso or Ramires or Davids or Simeone type player.. A player to give our midfield some bite.. Its a shame coz there are not many of them around.. Roy Keane was not the best technically but he was constantly running like a lunatic.. As a team we will need the right balance ro compete in both the Prem and Europe. To overload our team with Mata or Fabregas type players would be another Arsenal..

Tbh I don't know what Fellaini is best at...tend to ignore him when am watching hoping no passes him the ball..
 
lez said:
Really...?
Ideally was thinking of a Gattuso or Ramires or Davids or Simeone type player.. A player to give our midfield some bite.. Its a shame coz there are not many of them around.. Roy Keane was not the best technically but he was constantly running like a lunatic.. As a team we will need the right balance ro compete in both the Prem and Europe. To overload our team with Mata or Fabregas type players would be another Arsenal..

Tbh I don't know what Fellaini is best at...tend to ignore him when am watching hoping no passes him the ball..
Click to expand...

We need both types ideally. I'd like to add some steel as well but we'd be crazy not to try for Fabregas if he's available. He'd be our best midfielder by a long long way.

If we end up spunking loads of cash this summer and most of it doesn't go on central midfield, I'm gonna lose my shit.
 
lez said:
Roy Keane was not the best technically but he was constantly running like a lunatic..
Click to expand...

That's a myth. Roy Keane was a fantastic footballer who could pass, move and dominate matches against the best midfielders in the world, at the time. He was so much more than just a raging lunatic who ran around making tackles.

Regardless, that's hardly what our midfield is lacking at the moment. Which top team can you point to right now who play with a player primarily positioned to make tackles and run around making himself busy? I can't think of any, or at least not any teams who's level we should be trying to reach.
 
JmRssll555 said:
That's a myth. Roy Keane was a fantastic footballer who could pass, move and dominate matches against the best midfielders in the world, at the time. He was so much more than just a raging lunatic who ran around making tackles.

Regardless, that's hardly what our midfield is lacking at the moment. Which top team can you point to right now who play with a player primarily positioned to make tackles and run around making himself busy? I can't think of any, or at least not any teams who's level we should be trying to reach.
Click to expand...

well put.
 
This is why teams across the world moving out from 442

442 works well against another 442 oriented teams, but against the five men midfield, the 442 will get nullified. The 1999 team manages to mow down everything in its path is not down to the brilliance of 442 or our supposedly (united way football myth), they are successful because they have the best balance in midfield (Giggs-Keane-Scholes-Beckham).

It takes a special 4 midfielder to make 442 works, while smaller teams simply opted to put 5 men in the midfield, allowing them to fill the squad with cheaper player, because of the numerical advantage they have.

Now if we're going to persist with the 442, we will have to find another Keane, or two prime Carrick type midfielder, and on top of that 2 world class winger because unless we have a Zidane / Scholes, we will have to unlock defence with pace and trick, and those two are a trait of a great winger (which doesn't come very often)

So... we should first and foremost shifted to five men midfield, at least our Carrick/Fletcher/Fellaini can still do the job there.

Even with Fabregas, i don't think a 2 man midfield can cope with current formation tactically. Players just don't have the leg to cover the whole midfield with 2 man in a 50+ games per season.
 
JmRssll555 said:
That's a myth. Roy Keane was a fantastic footballer who could pass, move and dominate matches against the best midfielders in the world, at the time. He was so much more than just a raging lunatic who ran around making tackles.

Regardless, that's hardly what our midfield is lacking at the moment. Which top team can you point to right now who play with a player primarily positioned to make tackles and run around making himself busy? I can't think of any, or at least not any teams who's level we should be trying to reach.
Click to expand...

not the best passer.. Every top team plays one, unless you have not been watching Lahm at Bayern, Alonso at Madrid, Busquet at Barcelona, Capoue at Paris,etc
Fletcher use to do same job for us in midfield... The technical abilities might vary but the function or role is more needed in a top team to carry the defensive burden of the more attacking players...
 
lez said:
not the best passer.. Every top team plays one, unless you have not been watching Lahm at Bayern, Alonso at Madrid, Busquet at Barcelona, Capoue at Paris,etc
Fletcher use to do same job for us in midfield... The technical abilities might vary but the function or role is more needed in a top team to carry the defensive burden of the more attacking players...
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you bolded the, "not the best passer" part because that's not what your original post said. You said that, "Roy Keane was not the best technically" which I don't agree with. Yes, he was a hard-man and a ferocious tackler who could drive the team with his energy and running, but he was also an excellent technical midfielder and a superb passer of the ball. If you haven't ever watched a full 90 minutes of Keane at his peak, then I suggest that you do so; for example, his famous performance away to Juventus in 1999 is a passing masterclass.

I also think it's an incredible claim that you don't think those players you mentioned aren't great passers, or aren't very good technically as midfielders. Alonso is an awesome passer of the ball, as is Busquets and they both play key roles for two of the best teams in the world. To claim that they are anything other than top level technical players is ludicrous, in my opinion. I don't think Lahm is a particularly good comparison, since midfield isn't his primary position, but he too has also shown a fantastic ability to pass the ball and positively contribute to Guardiola's system. A system which is clearly focussed on ball possession and passing.

I think I understand the point which you are trying to make, but I'm not sure you are articulating it particularly well.
 
lez said:
Roy Keane was not the best technically but he was constantly running like a lunatic
Click to expand...
Did you even watch Keane play? That's a complete fictionalised version of what Keane was.

lez said:
not the best passer.. Every top team plays one, unless you have not been watching Lahm at Bayern, Alonso at Madrid, Busquet at Barcelona, Capoue at Paris,etc
Fletcher use to do same job for us in midfield... The technical abilities might vary but the function or role is more needed in a top team to carry the defensive burden of the more attacking players...
Click to expand...

What the feck? Keane was metronomic. He rarely gave away the ball, he was a better passer than Carrick for example. Yet because he was good at tackling and was involved in a few scrapes people paint him as a stone age footballer whose only outstanding attribute was tackling.
 
Arsenal have conceded as many goals as United have this year, so I think their D is being a bit overrated.

Starting from scratch, I'd look to play:

-------Van Persie------
Rooney--Ozil---Mata
---Ramsey-Arteta---
Gibbs-Kos-Jones-Rafael
--------De Gea-------

As I'm a Rooney at LW truther. Hard to leave out Cazorla, so I'd look to get him on often. Ozil and Mata are basically free and Rooney looks to get forward, so with Ramsey also an attacking type the strain on Arteta and the fullbacks is too much for this team to win the CL or anything.

This makes a fairly ugly merger, all in all. Arsenal-Everton looks a lot stronger:

---------Lukaku-----
Cazorla--Ozil---Mirallas
----Ramsey----------
Baines--McCarthy-Coleman
----Koscielny-Jagielka
---------Howard------

With Barkley for Cazorla as plan B, with Mirallas on one wing and Ozil and either Baines or Coleman looking to use the open space on the other, and 2 fantastic driving midfielders in Ramsey and Barkley to support Lukaku and feed on Ozil, Baines and Coleman's creative abilities.

as does say, United-Southampton, even, for me:

-----RVP---Rooney---
Lallana---------Mata-
Schneiderlin-Carrick
Shaw------------Rafael
----Lovren--Jones----

This should be its own ridiculous thread.
 
If Arsenal got Cesc and played:


-------Giroud----
Cazorla-Ozil-Oxlade
-Ramsey--Fabregas

as a front 6 they'd be phenomenal to watch and while they might flail in the CL, they'd rack up a ton of points in the Prem, surely.
 
Nozzy said:
I want 11 fighters, no shrinking violets & we seem to going the other way. More knowledgeable people than me will know where these are to be found. Are they gettable? Well Fab wasn't gettable last summer but he appears to be now. McCarthy was & he's a fighter - different players of course but as you say, we're rebuilding a squad & I want fighters - the kind that made us so successful in the past.

Too many ballerinas will not get us back to the top & Fabregas, Januzaj, Mata & Kagawa, seems to mirror more Barcelona, than Madrid.
Click to expand...

If you mean leaders, yes, I'd agree, the fighters bit is nothing. How many fighters did Barca have? How many do Bayern, Real, Dortmund have?

Every team needs a leader on the ohter hand and we certainly dont have one which is a big issue.
 
This died last summer . Be very surprised if we go in for him again.
 
NoPace said:
If Arsenal got Cesc and played:


-------Giroud----
Cazorla-Ozil-Oxlade
-Ramsey--Fabregas

as a front 6 they'd be phenomenal to watch and while they might flail in the CL, they'd rack up a ton of points in the Prem, surely.
Click to expand...

They'd get murdered with those 3 in the centre of the pitch. No balance.
 
Don't think this has been posted yet:




Catalan press: Arsenal is Fabregas' priority if he leaves, not Manchester United


The Catalan pair of sport newspapers, Mundo Deportivo and the imaginatively named Sport, have been reporting for a few days that Manchester United are interested in signing Cesc Fabregas this summer. Much of it is what has come from England but there has been encouragement from Spain too.

Both newspapers have recently run polls asking fans if they'd sell the player to Manchester United and, in both cases, over 80% insisted that they would. Fabregas isn't the fan favourite at Barcelona that he probably hoped he would be when he forced his way out of Arsenal to return home.

And it's Arsenal that would be the most likely destination according to Sport on Monday. They say that Fabregas still doesn't want to leave Barcelona, he hasn't given up on making himself a vital player for the club. However, should he be encouraged to leave (if Barcelona are tempted by a big bid) then Sport say that the midfielder's 'priority' would be joining Arsenal. He isn't pushing for that move and Sport repeatedly say Fabregas wants to stay, but if he has to go then he'd like that to be a return to Arsene Wenger.

That would largely depend on whether Wenger and Arsenal thought it worth the chance to try and sign him, and worth the transfer fee, which could be more than they received for him. It's merely speculation but then the Manchester United claims look to have been similar. It was David Moyes who pushed the move for Fabregas and he's now left the club, they also added Juan Mata during the January window.

Manchester United and Arsenal probably have other targets this summer than Cesc Fabregas.
 
Varun said:
If you mean leaders, yes, I'd agree, the fighters bit is nothing. How many fighters did Barca have? How many do Bayern, Real, Dortmund have?

Every team needs a leader on the ohter hand and we certainly dont have one which is a big issue.
Click to expand...

Fighters, leaders, winners - Barca were full of them, they are not now as they are getting old. Fab isn't a winner, he's an 'also ran', brought to Barca to give them younger legs while maintaining the quality. He's shown he's not capable of being a leader who will galvanise a team & personally, I hope we don't go anywhere near him. He turned us down for goodness sake - that should be the end of the matter IMO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.