Bruno Martins Indi

[The Neviller]

Sigh. Okay whatever. That's enough. See this!! At least I'm respecting your opinion even when you called me don't understand football. Unlike you, can't respect and deal with someone else opinion.

I can't deal with someone banging on about rotation as if anyone has suggested that's something we should do, and inventing a scenario where having 4 good centre backs is a bad thing.

I actually agreed with you that I'd rather play 2 of Evans, Smalling and Jones. I'd just rather have someone better and more experienced than Keane or Thorpe.

Honest question, who world you rather have play for us against Chelsea/City if a few of our centre backs were out injured. Keane/Thorpe or a guy just off the back of playing for his country (a major country at that) at a World Cup?

 

[JPRouve]

There's no risk. If they're happy to come here and be back up so be it. The two best play, the others try to be good in training and catch the managers eye, and take chances when they arise (which they will, injuries happen) and play so well when they're in that the manager can't leave them out. Then the others try to get back in. Competition spurs players on.

There will be games for everyone, very few players play every game of a league season. So you don't have to rotate, you have your first choice pair and the other 2 try and make the manager pick them.

It's like you don't even understand football and the nature of having a squad of players.

JSMHE arguments is a bad one but i can give you a good one.

If your 3 best CBs are injury prone that means that they won't play all the time together (the same pair) which is not a good thing. If that cause you(not you you) a problem then the better way to fix it, is buy a CB who will be a first teamer without doubt and who isn't injury prone (a priori).

Because that will allowed you stability in the defense with one general who is present week in week out.

It's better to have instability in 1 position than 2, well i think.

 

[Globule]

There's no risk. If they're happy to come here and be back up so be it. The two best play, the others try to be good in training and catch the managers eye, and take chances when they arise (which they will, injuries happen) and play so well when they're in that the manager can't leave them out. Then the others try to get back in. Competition spurs players on.

There will be games for everyone, very few players play every game of a league season. So you don't have to rotate, you have your first choice pair and the other 2 try and make the manager pick them.

It's like you don't even understand football and the nature of having a squad of players.

Nev, you're being a bit blinkered with this issue. In an ideal world we'll have 2 quality second-choice CBs, who are happy to be part of the squad. In reality, these players need to be played. Look at Hernandez, who has really suffered from not enough rotation. Under Fergie, who was excellent at rotating the squad, HErnandez could be relied upon to come on and make a difference. He was never rusty. Then last season he was so under-utilised that when he did get opportunities he just didn't have the same confidence.

In your football utopia, Mata would still be at Chelsea. The reason he isn't is because good players need to play. If they don't play and are still happy they're not the right player for the club.

 

[The Neviller]

Nev, you're being a bit blinkered with this issue. In an ideal world we'll have 2 quality second-choice CBs, who are happy to be part of the squad. In reality, these players need to be played. Look at Hernandez, who has really suffered from not enough rotation. Under Fergie, who was excellent at rotating the squad, HErnandez could be relied upon to come on and make a difference. He was never rusty. Then last season he was so under-utilised that when he did get opportunities he just didn't have the same confidence.

In your football utopia, Mata would still be at Chelsea. The reason he isn't is because good players need to play. If they don't play and are still happy they're not the right player for the club.

I'm not blinkered at all. All top clubs need top back-ups for all positions. They will get played though. Ferdinand and Vidic have been our first choice pairing for years. How many games have Evans, Smalling and Jones played?

You need back-ups in all positions, or you'd never fill out a team. They also need to be good enough to play when you need them. You also need players who are first choice.

I'll ask the same question I asked the other guy, who would you rather see play against a big side if Evans and Smalling were out for example, Keane/Thorpe or a guy just off the back of playing for a major country at a World Cup?

Are you honestly suggesting you don't think the guy we're talking about would be happy to leabe Feyenoord and come here as part of a squad?

 

[Globule]

I'm not blinkered at all. All top clubs need top back-ups for all positions. They will get played though. Ferdinand and Vidic have been our first choice pairing for years. How many games have Evans, Smalling and Jones played?

You need back-ups in all positions, or you'd never fill out a team. They also need to be good enough to play when you need them. You also need players who are first choice.

I'll ask the same question I asked the other guy, who would you rather see play against a big side if Evans and Smalling were out for example, Keane/Thorpe or a guy just off the back of playing for a major country at a World Cup?

Are you honestly suggesting you don't think the guy we're talking about would be happy to leabe Feyenoord and come here as part of a squad?

First of all I should say that I agree with your point. I want us to have 4 CBs and have said that previously in here.

But I'm talking specifically about rotation. I personally believe the best managers can rotate the squad well, and with 4 good CBs he would need to. However, I do concede that there is a risk that comes with rotation - a settled defence would be ideal, but it's in our interests to get another CB in.

What you've suggested is that we could buy a CB and have him be our first choice partner to Evans. You also say you're not advocating rotation, which would mean Smalling and Jones warming the bench regularly. How do you keep Jones and Smalling from wanting to leave next summer.

IMO, there are two options here - 3 CBs and more stability, or 4 CBs with more rotation. I don't think you can the best of both worlds, which is what you're suggesting.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

It would have been alright if anyone was actually advocating rotation. It's a strawman argument because nobody involved has said "we should have 4 centre backs and rotate them".

I can understand what @JSMHE is saying, though. If you look at most teams, they normally have 3 good enough defenders who could step up to the first team at any time. In our case next season, it would be Smalling, Evans and Jones. Chelsea have Cahill, Terry and Ivonovic, in which the latter spends most of his time at right back. Fortunately for Chelsea, Terry and Cahill very rarely got injured last season, and were able to form a good partnership.

I think because of the injuries of our centre backs over the last couple of years, it has led most of our fans to think we need another defender, and rightly so, but what happens if Smalling, Jones and Evans have an injury free season next year? What happens to the player we brought in? Who gets dropped from the starting XI and bench, because normally there's only one centre back on the sub bench.

Ideally, if I had my way, I'd kill two birds with one stone and get in a very good defensive right back, who could also play centre back - similar to Ivanovic. In this way, if/when Rafael is injured, that player could come in, and if two of our centre backs are injured, he could come in at centre back.

For example:

Rafael and Smalling injured - New Signing (RB and CB) - Jones - Evans - Evra

Smalling and Evans injured - Rafael - New Signing (RB and CB) - Jones - Evra

By killing two birds with one stone, if we were to sign a player who could play two positions (CB and RB), you'd expect him to still get a sufficient amount of playing time.

Question is, who's out there that can play that role? We've already got someone in Jones who, in my opinion, is great at CB and RB, but i'm not sure he wants to play RB.

We need a Wes Brown or John O'shea.

 

[The Neviller]

I can understand what @JSMHE is saying, though. If you look at most teams, they normally have 3 good enough defenders who could step up to the first team at any time. In our case next season, it would be Smalling, Evans and Jones. Chelsea have Cahill, Terry and Ivonovic, in which the latter spends most of his time at right back. Fortunately for Chelsea, Terry and Cahill very rarely got injured last season, and were able to form a good partnership.

I think because of the injuries of our centre backs over the last couple of years, it has led most of our fans to think we need another defender, and rightly so, but what happens if Smalling, Jones and Evans have an injury free season next year? What happens to the player we brought in? Who gets dropped from the starting XI and bench, because normally there's only one centre back on the sub bench.

Ideally, if I had my way, I'd kill two birds with one stone and get in a very good defensive right back, who could also play centre back - similar to Ivanovic. In this way, if/when Rafael is injured, that player could come in, and if two of our centre backs are injured, he could come in at centre back.

For example:

Rafael and Smalling injured - New Signing (RB and CB) - Jones - Evans - Evra

Smalling and Evans injured - Rafael - New Signing (RB and CB) - Jones - Evra

By killing two birds with one stone, if we were to sign a player who could play two positions (CB and RB), you'd expect him to still get a sufficient amount of playing time.

Question is, who's out there that can play that role? We've already got someone in Jones who, in my opinion, is great at CB and RB, but i'm not sure he wants to play RB.

We need a Wes Brown or John O'shea.

You've mentioned Chelsea, conveniently forgetting David Luiz who they had last season, and Kurt Zouma who they signed in January (?). They're also reported to be after a replacement for Luiz after selling him. That's more options than we'd have in our 3.

Simple fact is, we need one more centre back. We've lost 2 in the summer and the other 3 have all had fitness issues. I wouldn't be against one who can play both roles.

 

[The Neviller]

First of all I should say that I agree with your point. I want us to have 4 CBs and have said that previously in here.

But I'm talking specifically about rotation. I personally believe the best managers can rotate the squad well, and with 4 good CBs he would need to. However, I do concede that there is a risk that comes with rotation - a settled defence would be ideal, but it's in our interests to get another CB in.

What you've suggested is that we could buy a CB and have him be our first choice partner to Evans. You also say you're not advocating rotation, which would mean Smalling and Jones warming the bench regularly. How do you keep Jones and Smalling from wanting to leave next summer.

IMO, there are two options here - 3 CBs and more stability, or 4 CBs with more rotation. I don't think you can the best of both worlds, which is what you're suggesting.

You obviously haven't read what I've suggested, since more than once I've said we should pick 2 out of the 3 we have, and buy one more for the squad.

You can give players games without rotating, in the way it's commonly regarded. I'll ask again, how many games have Evans, Smalling and Jones had over the past few years? That's been whilst we've had a clearly defined first choice pairing in Ferdinand and Vidic. Players miss games, for a number of reasons. You can have a first choice pair and still have games for you other players.

We can't go into next season with 3 centre backs. Anyone who thinks that is crazy, in my opinion. It's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

You've mentioned Chelsea, conveniently forgetting Davud Luiz who theynhad last season, and Kurt Zouma who they signed in January (?). They're also reported to be after a replacement for Luiz after selling him. That's more options than we'd have in our 3.

Simple fact is, we need one more centre back. We've lost 2 in the summer and the other 3 have all had fitness issues. I wouldn't be against one who can play both roles.

Knew I forgot someone. However, that doesn't change the point I was making. Chelsea had 3 main centre backs in Terry, Cahill and Luiz, and a defender who can play both, right back and centre back in Ivanovic, spending only 2 appearances at centre back last season. This is why I think if we were to have Smalling, Evans, Jones and New Signing (CB and RB), we'd have more than enough options.

You mention Kurt Zouma, but he's a young player, and he'd be Chelsea's equivalence of Michael Keane. If Chelsea were to sign a replacement for Luiz, it will still leave them with 3 main centre backs, as I imagine Ivanovic will continue to play right back.

 

[The Neviller]

Knew I forgot someone. However, that doesn't change the point I was making. Chelsea had 3 main centre backs in Terry, Cahill and Luiz, and a defender who can play both, right back and centre back in Ivanovic, spending only 2 appearances at centre back last season. This is why I think if we were to have Smalling, Evans, Jones and New Signing (CB and RB), we'd have more than enough options.

You mention Kurt Zouma, but he's a young player, and he'd be Chelsea's equivalence of Michael Keane. If Chelsea were to sign a replacement for Luiz, it will still leave them with 3 main centre backs, as I imagine Ivanovic will continue to play right back.

Comparing Zouma to Keane is a bit of a stretch

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Comparing Zouma to Keane is a bit of a stretch

Im comparing the roles they will play for their teams next season. I can't imagine Zouma will get many games for Chelsea next season, and Keane the same. They will both be back up players, unless they are sent on loan again.

 

[The Neviller]

Im comparing the roles they will play for their teams next season. I can't imagine Zouma will get many games for Chelsea next season, and Keane the same. They will both be back up players, unless they are sent on loan again.

I can't see Keane being part of our first team squad next season. I can see Zouma being part of theirs. And there's no comparison with regards their quality.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I can't see Keane being part of our first team squad next season. I can see Zouma being part of theirs. And there's no comparison with regards their quality.

It's impossible trying to have a debate with you. You just repeat the same thing, which only leads to the debate going round in circles.

I reiterate, I wasn't talking about their quality, I was talking about their roles. Regardless of whether you feel Zouma is better than Keane, although the former hasn't even played in England yet, they will still be back up players, or loaned out, especially if Chelsea's defenders have an injury free season next year.

If Keane is indeed sold, or not part of our first team set up, it still won't change the fact that we'll hopefully four players who can play centre back - similar to Chelsea.

Man Utd Centre Back Options

Smalling
Evans
Jones
New Signing (RB and CB)

Chelsea Centre Back options

Cahill
Terry
David Luiz replacement
Ivanovic (RB and CB)


The only way I see Zouma getting sufficient playing time at Chelsea is if Mourinho actually sees him as the David Luiz replacement, although I feel he's vastly inexperienced to do so, at this present time.

 

[The Neviller]

It's impossible trying to have a debate with you. You just repeat the same thing, which only leads to the debate going round in circles.

I reiterate, I wasn't talking about their quality, I was talking about their roles. Regardless of whether you feel Zouma is better than Keane, although the former hasn't even played in England yet, they will still be back up players, or loaned out, especially if Chelsea's defenders have an injury free season next year.

If Keane is indeed sold, or not part of our first team set up, it still won't change the fact that we'll hopefully four players who can play centre back - similar to Chelsea.

Man Utd Centre Back Options

Smalling
Evans
Jones
New Signing (RB and CB)

Chelsea Centre Back options

Cahill
Terry
David Luiz replacement
Ivanovic (RB and CB)


The only way I see Zouma getting sufficient playing time at Chelsea is if Mourinho actually sees him as the David Luiz replacement, although I feel he's vastly inexperienced to do so, at this present time.

I'm not particularly arguing with you, I'd be happy with a player who can play centre back and right back. Point is, we definitely need another player who can play at centre back, should that be one who can play right back as well or a centre back specialist and Jones as the utility option. That's all I've actually said in this thread, that 3 centre backs isn't enough to start a season with. I'm not sure why that's such an extreme position to garner all these people wanting to disagree.

I'm perfectly capable of debating by the way. Would you rather I just agreed with whatever you say and end the discussion there?

 

[JSMHE]

It's impossible trying to have a debate with you. You just repeat the same thing, which only leads to the debate going round in circles.

 

[hobbers]

If anyone thinks we can get through next season and finish in the top four without adding at least one more centreback they are seriously deluded.

At the moment we have a trio who are all incredibly injury prone, and typically spend at least a couple of months out injured every season. None of them are commanding, vocal or particularly dominant in the air, and there's not much experience between them either.

 

[The Neviller]

It must be a Rotation Risk, debating with me.

Whatever that means

 

[Keeps It tidy]

If anyone thinks we can get through next season and finish in the top four without adding at least one more centreback they are seriously deluded.

At the moment we have a trio who are all incredibly injury prone, and typically spend at least a couple of months out injured every season. None of them are commanding, vocal or particularly dominant in the air, and there's not much experience between them either.

They have very good experience for there ages. Jones is pretty vocal and both Jones and Smalling are strong in the air. Also Evans is not that young anymore and Smalling is not that young either. Unless we just want them to be John O'Shea types we have to trust these guys to step up.We can not just continue pushing back their development.

 

[The Neviller]

They have very good experience for there ages. Jones is pretty vocal and both Jones and Smalling are strong in the air. Also Evans is not that young anymore and Smalling is not that young either. Unless we just want them to be John O'Shea types we have to trust these guys to step up.We can not just continue pushing back their development.

Then we play them, but having no back up for them would be reckless at best, disastrous at worst.

 

[JSMHE]

It must be a Rotation Risk, debating with me.

Whatever that means

You can't even read
Everyone seems understand why I mentioned rotation risk except you

 

[The Neviller]

You can't even read
Everyone seems understand why I mentioned rotation risk except you

Nobody else has responded to it, because it doesn't fecking anything. It's a meaningless term you've made up, you imbecile.

"Why not sign this guy?"

"Rotation Risk"

CherylColeRrrrrright.gif

Must be easy to get promoted these days. Also, given how shite your grasp of English is, it's laughable you've suggested I can't read.

 

[JSMHE]

Nobody else has responded to it, because it doesn't fecking anything. It's a meaningless term you've made up, you imbecile.

"Why not sign this guy?"

"Rotation Risk"

CherylColeRrrrrright.gif

Must be easy to get promoted these days.

May be if you can read or willing to read my posts like Walters 19 then you will understand why I said rotation risk.

 

[The Neviller]

May be if you can read or willing to read my posts like Walters 19 then you will understand why I said rotation risk.

It's a made up term, and it means nothing. That's my point.

I know exactly what you meant, but you keep banging on using this silly term that doesn't actually mean anything. You even posted the exact thing I put in quotation marks, as an answer to why we shouldn't sign this guy. The term doesn't exist anywhere other than in your head. Nobody has ever used that term when discussing football. Literally nobody, ever.

 

[JSMHE]

It's a made up term, and it means nothing. That's my point.

I know exactly what you meant, but you keep banging on using this silly term that doesn't actually mean anything. You even posted the exact thing I put in quotation marks, as an answer to why we shouldn't sign this guy. The term doesn't exist anywhere other than in your head. Nobody has ever used that term when discussing football. Literally nobody, ever.

If you know what I meant then you shouldn't complain about it just like Walter 19. He doesn't seem complain or have any problem with my theory. You are the only one here complain about my answer is rotation risk. Nobody else arguing with it.

 

[The Neviller]

If you know what I meant then you shouldn't complain about it just like Walter 19. He doesn't seem complain or have any problem with my theory. You are the only one here complain about my answer is rotation risk. Nobody else arguing with it.

Because nobody else gives a shit about this thread

It's just a silly term mate, and genuinely means nothing. It's not an answer to a question. I don't agree with your argument anyway, you don't have to rotate if you have 4 centre backs, you can still have a first choice pair. We had that before with 5 centre backs, but the term just sounds daft.

 

[JSMHE]

Because nobody else gives a shit about this thread

It's just a silly term mate, and genuinely means nothing. It's not an answer to a question. I don't agree with your argument anyway, you don't have to rotate if you have 4 centre backs, you can still have a first choice pair. We had that before with 5 centre backs, but the term just sounds daft.

You are just repeating it again. It's like circle. Don't you get bored to repeat all of these while I already give you my response. Oh may be you didn't read them because you are not willing to read my post.

We don't have to rotate if we have 4 but when you have 4 similar level CB like Jones, BMI, Evans and Smalling then none of them want to sit on the bench just to see someone who are not better than himself are playing ahead of him. Manager needs to be fair to give them chance by doing rotation.
While if we have Vidic, Rio, Pique and Brown then we don't have to worry about rotation because Vidic and Rio are completely different level from Pique and Brown. That's why we don't have worry for rotation risk because Rio and Vidic will always be guarantee starting eleven choice. This is why I mentioned two scenario. Stick with current players or signing a better defender for a guarantee starting eleven choice. BMI isn't guarantee to be starting choice. He's not any better or worse than Smalling and Jones.

 

[Enigma_87]

It's impossible trying to have a debate with you. You just repeat the same thing, which only leads to the debate going round in circles.

I reiterate, I wasn't talking about their quality, I was talking about their roles. Regardless of whether you feel Zouma is better than Keane, although the former hasn't even played in England yet, they will still be back up players, or loaned out, especially if Chelsea's defenders have an injury free season next year.

If Keane is indeed sold, or not part of our first team set up, it still won't change the fact that we'll hopefully four players who can play centre back - similar to Chelsea.

Man Utd Centre Back Options

Smalling
Evans
Jones
New Signing (RB and CB)

Chelsea Centre Back options

Cahill
Terry
David Luiz replacement
Ivanovic (RB and CB)


The only way I see Zouma getting sufficient playing time at Chelsea is if Mourinho actually sees him as the David Luiz replacement, although I feel he's vastly inexperienced to do so, at this present time.

I think he's right really. Zouma is going to be part of Chelsea's first team next year. Like Jones and Smalling who had little experience with Blackburn and Fulham respectively but had like 30-40 games in their first season.

Zouma has experience, although not in England and being young but I can see him take part in Chelsea's team next season with Terry being older and probably more injury prone. Keane is highly unlikely to feature in the first team next season (maybe League cup if not loaned out).

Their roles are totally different...

 

[The Neviller]

You are just repeating it again. It's like circle. Don't you get bored to repeat all of these while I already give you my response. Oh may be you didn't read them because you are not willing to read my post.

We don't have to rotate if we have 4 but when you have 4 similar level CB like Jones, BMI, Evans and Smalling then none of them want to sit on the bench just to see someone who are not better than himself are playing ahead of him. Manager needs to be fair to give them chance by doing rotation.
While if we have Vidic, Rio, Pique and Brown then we don't have to worry about rotation because Vidic and Rio are completely different level from Pique and Brown. That's why we don't have worry for rotation risk because Rio and Vidic will always be guarantee starting eleven choice. This is why I mentioned two scenario. Stick with current players or signing a better defender for a guarantee starting eleven choice. BMI isn't guarantee to be starting choice. He's not any better or worse than Smalling and Jones.

What about Rio, Vidic, Evans, Smalling and Jones? You know, the five we had last year. And the year before. Where we had a first choice pairing (Ferdinand and Vidic) who would play when fit, and three who still got plenty of games because it's natural that games will be available, since players very rarely play every game of a season. Why did you feel the need to go back to Pique and Brown?

So don't sign a player for "rotation risk" (that stupid fecking phrase again) and go with only three central defenders, rather than strengthen an area we need strengthened in and letting the players fight it out for who plays? That's senseless.

Honestly, what clubs ever do that? "You know what, we might be a centre back short but I don't think we should sign one who is as good as the ones we have, because, you know, rotation risk" said no football manager, ever.

It's a very simple scenario, Evans, Smalling, Jones, AN Other. Evans and Smalling start the season as first choice, the others are back ups. They all get games because injuries, suspension, lack of form, tiredness all happen in football. The other two get used as and when you need to play them or when you need something different for a particular game. It's not rocket science.

You need back-up in all areas in football. Having one extra centre back to cover your main two isn't adequate, so you buy another one. I'd like to see two out of the three we currently have be given chances, if we buy a top top player then that won't happen, two will be left out rather than one. Keane and Thorpe aren't good enough yet and might never be, so the best scenario (if you want to see two of Evans, Smalling and Jones be given a chance at being first choice) is to buy someone at a similar level than what we have. Obviously if Hummels is available and gettable I'd rather have him and Evans, and have Smalling and Jones as back-up (is that not rotation risk?). There's no point in buying one worse, because they won't be good enough to step in when they're needed. I'd rather see this guy play in a big game, with the experience he'll have of big games (he's playing for a top international team at a World Cup) than Tom Thorpe who hasn't played higher than the Championship.

What's hard to understand about that? It's pretty standard stuff.

 

[JSMHE]

What about Rio, Vidic, Evans, Smalling and Jones? You know, the five we had last year. And the year before. Where we had a first choice pairing (Ferdinand and Vidic) who would play when fit, and three who still got plenty of games because it's natural that games will be available, since players very rarely play every game of a season. Why did you feel the need to go back to Pique and Brown?

Because Rio and Vidic are always our permanent paired centre back when we had Brown and Pique!! While last season we are always rotating them which is why it's really bad. We didn't even have our permanent paired last season because of that rotation.

So don't sign a player for "rotation risk" (that stupid fecking phrase again) and go with only three central defenders, rather than strengthen an area we need strengthened in and letting the players fight it out for who plays? That's senseless.

You might need to read my post again. What did I say on my 2nd scenario?

It's not like Hummels is the only quality centre back who are better than Smalling and Jones at the moment.

 

[The Neviller]

Because Rio and Vidic are always our permanent paired centre back when we had Brown and Pique!! While last season we are always rotating them which is why it's really bad. We didn't even have our permanent paired last season because of that rotation.




You might need to read my post again. What did I say on my 2nd scenario?

It's not like Hummels is the only quality centre back who are better than Smalling and Jones at the moment.

We didn't rotate them last year, they played together when they were both fit. When they weren't the others played, when they were fit. The same the season before. If you think the last time Rio and Vidic were our set first choice centre back pairing was when Pique was here then I question how much of us you've watched in recent years. You're talking nonsense there. Absolute garbage.

I didn't say he was, I used him as an example. If we can get a top class centre back in then I'm all for it, as much as I'd like to see Evans, Smalling or Jones get chances. But if we can't, I'd rather get someone of a similar standard as those three in than sign nobody and hope to get through the season with three centre backs, or play Keane/Thorpe. Those two aren't good enough, yet.

 

[JSMHE]

We didn't rotate them last year, they played together when they were both fit. When they weren't the others played, when they were fit. The same the season before. If you think the last time Rio and Vidic were our set first choice centre back pairing was when Pique was here then I question how much of us you've watched in recent years. You're talking nonsense there. Absolute garbage.

I didn't say he was, I used him as an example. If we can get a top class centre back in then I'm all for it, as much as I'd like to see Evans, Smalling or Jones get chances. But if we can't, I'd rather get someone of a similar standard as those three in than sign nobody and hope to get through the season with three centre backs, or play Keane/Thorpe. Those two aren't good enough, yet.

I guess you just didn't see Rio is sitting on the bench aye?
You are still missing the point of my 2nd scenario. Read it again!!
There tons of defenders who are better than BMI at the moment. It's not like we need to sign a similar level centre back with Smalling and Jones.

 

[The Neviller]

I guess you just didn't see Rio is sitting on the bench aye?
You are still missing the point of my 2nd scenario. Read it again!!
There tons of defenders who are better than BMI at the moment. It's not like we need to sign a similar level centre back with Smalling and Jones.

He wasn't rotated. He was injured, and then he fell out of favour, and based on what we now know I'd guess it was personal.

I've read your second point. Hummels I mentioned because he's the one above all the rest that I'd want. If he isn't available (I don't think he is in all honesty) then I'd rather give the three we already have the chance to make a pairing rather than sign another big name (my pick would be Evans and one of the other two).

That being the case, I'd rather sign one on a par with Smalling and Jones than one worse or none at all, and certainly don't think Keane and Thorpe are good enough. That's my take. I don't think signing a player of similar ability to your current players is as big an issue as you're making it.

 

[The Neviller]

We're not going to agree on this so maybe we should just leave it there. You think three +youth is enough, I don't. If we don't sign another one I hope to god you're right, but I'll worry for our prospects of making any kind of challenge with only the centre backs we currently have.

 

[JSMHE]

He wasn't rotated. He was injured, and then he fell out of favour, and based on what we now know I'd guess it was personal.

I've read your second point. Hummels I mentioned because he's the one above all the rest that I'd want. If he isn't available (I don't think he is in all honesty) then I'd rather give the three we already have the chance to make a pairing rather than sign another big name (my pick would be Evans and one of the other two).

That being the case, I'd rather sign one on a par with Smalling and Jones than one worse or none at all, and certainly don't think Keane and Thorpe are good enough. That's my take. I don't think signing a player of similar ability to your current players is as big an issue as you're making it.

Rio was a starter vs Bayern 1st leg. He left out in 2nd leg. Rio is left out in so many games after against WBA when he was paired with Evans. I don't see that as an injury and personal issue.

If we signed BMI. Then our paired will be Evans with rotation of Smalling/BMI/Jones. Smalling, Jones and BMI are not any better and worse. They want to be part of the team. They are not going to sit on the bench when someone else who are not better play ahead of him.
If we sign a better quality players then we have the permanent paired. There are tons of players out there who are better than BMI and more experience than Jones or Smalling which we can sign, don't you agree..

 

[JSMHE]

We're not going to agree on this so maybe we should just leave it there. You think three +youth is enough, I don't. If we don't sign another one I hope to god you're right, but I'll worry for our prospects of making any kind of challenge with only the centre backs we currently have.

And finally you are respecting my opinion. I'm already respect yours and I was waiting you respect mine. See that's what happen if you are willing to read someone else posts. At least you understand what I'm saying. It's not like I'm asking you to agree with me.

 

[The Neviller]

Rio was a starter vs Bayern 1st leg. He left out in 2nd leg. Rio is left out in so many games after against WBA when he was paired with Evans. I don't see that as an injury and personal issue.

If we signed BMI. Then our paired will be Evans with rotation of Smalling/BMI/Jones. Smalling, Jones and BMI are not any better and worse. They want to be part of the team. They are not going to sit on the bench when someone else who are not better play ahead of him.
If we sign a better quality players then we have the permanent paired. There are tons of players out there who are better than BMI and more experience than Jones or Smalling which we can sign, don't you agree..

I do agree, but Hummels is the one I want above all, and if he isn't available I'd play two out of what we have (Evans plus one of the other two). In that scenario, I still think we need another one, so one as good as Smalling/Jones is better, for me, than one not as good or none at all. Keane and Thorpe don't even come into the equation for me, because they aren't ready and should be going on Premier League loans next season.

 

[The Neviller]

And finally you are respecting my opinion. I'm already respect yours and I was waiting you respect mine. See that's what happen if you are willing to read someone else posts. At least you understand what I'm saying. It's not like I'm asking you to agree with me.

I've always respected your opinion and your right to have it, I just think you're massively wrong and your reasoning is flawed.

It doesn't matter if the players are of equal ability and want to play, they'll get chances and it's up to them to take the chance when they get it and make themselves undroppable.

 

[Ekeke]

I think he's right really. Zouma is going to be part of Chelsea's first team next year. Like Jones and Smalling who had little experience with Blackburn and Fulham respectively but had like 30-40 games in their first season.

Zouma has experience, although not in England and being young but I can see him take part in Chelsea's team next season with Terry being older and probably more injury prone. Keane is highly unlikely to feature in the first team next season (maybe League cup if not loaned out).

Their roles are totally different...

Zouma wasnt even starting for St Etienne. He was a backup

 

[JSMHE]

I've always respected your opinion and your right to have it, I just think you're massively wrong and your reasoning is flawed.

It doesn't matter if the players are of equal ability and want to play, they'll get chances and it's up to them to take the chance when they get it and make themselves undroppable.

What a surprise that you are still babbling with this shit. Jezz. You need to know how to stop when I was not even talking about our players anymore in my last post. Try to deal with someone else comment.

 

[The Neviller]

What a surprise that you are still babbling with this shit. Jezz. You need to know how to stop when I was not even talking about our players anymore in my last post. Try to deal with someone else comment.

How is the notion that having 4 players of equal ability is better than having 3 of that ability and 1 worse 'shit"? You've said it's better to have 3 players the same and a younger, lesser player as number 4 rather than have 4 who are all as good as each other. How does that make any sense?