,,Ref, don't mess with my boots, yo."
by Bruno Martins
Bruno Martins Indi
- Thread starter Nozzy
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
LVG likes youth......I think he'll go for BMI if he things he suits his system more than any of our other defenders who let's face it looked pretty awful last year
You obviously haven't read my posts. I trust our own centre backs and would play them, which is precisely why I'd sign a young player for the squad. What experienced player good enough for United is going to want to come and sit on the bench behind Smalling/Jones? Name one.
I just loved it when he was staring at Costa when the referee was having a word with the latter after the headbutt-incident. The referee was trying to like tell Bruno to calm down and look away, but he just didn't care and just continued to glare at Costa. Just loved his confidence.
For a young defender, he impressed he massively. I heard good things about him before the WC, but that was definitely a performance that matched the hype.
Very much enjoyed his ball-playing attribute too. It was a breath of fresh air to see a player just carry the ball out of defence and had the confident to pass it to someone 20-30 yards away.
For a young defender, he impressed he massively. I heard good things about him before the WC, but that was definitely a performance that matched the hype.
Very much enjoyed his ball-playing attribute too. It was a breath of fresh air to see a player just carry the ball out of defence and had the confident to pass it to someone 20-30 yards away.
Did not having cover at right back lead to Smalling, Jones and Evans all spending time out injured last season, some of them at the same time?
I'd play 2 out of that 3, happily, as my first choice pairing, but they need cover. If just one gets injured you're immediately short. Signing a young centrehalf who is currently playing in a World Cup team for Holland as back-up, for a fee not much over £10mil doesn't prevent us signing a covering right back as well, so why not both?
Exactly! Rotation is bad. 4 equally level centre backs in just EPL, FA and Capital one cup. I rather see the 1st scenario 3 centre back + youth or as what I said before the 2nd scenario is sign a better one.
This isn't true anyway, bevause you've advocated, in this thread, bringing Keane up as cover, so that is the opposite of preferring experience as cover. If that's what you want, Indi is far more experienced than Keane. He's a full international.
Also, saying we shouldn't sign players for the squad so they don't waste their talent is silly. We sign what makes us better as a club. If he's a good player then you sign him. It's stupid to sign lesser players so better players don't waste their talent being squad players. I've never heard the like of it. "Too good to be a squad player here, don't want. Would rather sign someone less talented". Absolutely ridiculous.
Hey buddy, that posted is a replied for JPRouve post, not yours. So of course it has nothing to do with your post.
I don't know which is why I already said this so many times my choice is trusting Jones, Evans and Smalling + youth for next season. Not buying a new one!! Sign a new one is the 2nd scenario with experience and better player and guarantee for starting eleven without being rotation risk a lot. Not similar level with rotation risk in only domestic competition.
If you rotate them every single games then I will call it as a waste of talent. We need to make sure we have our permanent pair of centre back not having 4 with a similar level in only domestic competition.
What i mean is that we need a fourth CB there is two possibilities, promote a young player (Keane, Thorpe) or buy a CB, if we buy one i'd prefer us to sign a very good CB who is gonna play regurlaly. Why ?
Because our CBs are injury prone we know that they will be injured at some point.
Buying a young CB is a gamble, and i prefer us to buy a RB and gamble on one of our young CBs (Keane or Thorpe)
But if you think that we have the money and space to accomodate 2 hungry players than fine let's buy 1 young CB + 1 good RB +Shaw
4 equally good centre backs is bad, but it's better to have 3 good and 1 worse or 3 good and 1 better? Is this some Football Manager shit that I'm not aware of?
No it isn't. It's a reply to my post, because you quoted me and responded to something I said. I then quoted you back.
Signing a big name centre back is silly if you want us to play 2 out of the 3 we have. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Hummels, but if he comes 2 of Evans, Smalling and Jones are left out again, and I'd be happy to give them a chance.
What you're advocating (signing a top centre half) leaves 2 of our current ones on the bench. What I'm advocating leaves 1 of them on the bench, with another young backup player. How can you say signing Indi is a waste of his talent, amd not be concerned about wasting two of Evans, Smalling and Jones by sitting them on the bench?
If playing the 3 we have is what you want, then signing a good young player for the squad is the sensible option.
Yeah, if you play football manager, doing rotation won't giving any effect that much or that's even better for having 4 equally level centre backs in that game.
But we are in real life. It's better to settle the pair centre backs without doing rotation. It's better to give them chances to prove themself, who knows that 1 worse michael keane would be great one if he is given a chance. Jones, Smalling and Evans are very good defenders. Smalling and Jones haven't get their chance to prove themself to play one full season as a centre back with us. What so special about Rio and Vidic is they understand each other and I heard the media questioning them about did they do telepathy during the game. It's about experiences and playing together. Let Jones, Smalling and Evans to play together. If Jones, Smalling are not good enough then we can sign a better one next summer.
It has nothing to do with FM, the thing is you don't trust them because they are injury prone, right ?
Therefore you want to bring a player to compensate that, the logical thing is to purchase a better player who is not injury prone. Why would you purchase someone who is equally good than players who aren't top ones.
In the mean time, i know that they are injury and i'm willing to take the gamble of two young CBs to cover them, just them, and purchase a proper right back who's not injury prone, then smalling, Jones, Evans, Thorpe and Keane will only play in CB position.
Comparing Indi and Keane/Thorpe is ridiculous though. One is a full international, the others haven't played any higher than the Championship. There is more risk in promoting them than signing a full international, playing in a van Gaal team at a World Cup.
I don't see why we couldn't sign a young centre back as well as cover in the fullback positions. It's more likely and more obtainable than signing a Hummels or a Mangala. Certainly if you feel Evans, Smalling and Jones deserve a chance to stake a claim.
You don't have to say sir to give you insulting me some class..
your whole argument is rubbish..
You're the only person talking about rotation though. I want to see us give 2 out of the 3 we have chances, but 3 isn't enough for the squad, so for me the right move is to sign a young centre back who is happy to be a squad player but with the potential to be good. Indi looks to be that, with what I've seen of him in the relatively few games I've watched. He's young, strong, quick, and would be relatively cheap, and would probably be happy to be here as back up. Why anyone would have issue with that signing is beyond me.
Stop banging on about rotation, I'm not advocating that. Not one post from me has suggested that.
Opps yeah my bad wrong read for name.
Silly? Yeah it's silly that's why I prefer to stick with Evans, Smalling and Jones to give them chance. But it's even more silly if we sign another one with the same level just to do rotation.
If you read my post then you know why I said it is waste of talent. Rotation risk!! I hope you are not going to ask the same question again for the 3rd time.
I rather wasting 2 players Smalling or Jones talent and then end up selling one of them and we have our paired centre back settled (Evans and someone else better) rather than having 4 equally level centre back for rotation which mean wasting 4 talent players.
3 + youth is enough in only domestic competition. I'm getting bored seeing your similar posts. You just don't know how bad it is rotating the centre back partnership in every games.
I didn't compare them if you read my posts i said they were inferior to him.
No one said that we couldn't sign him or that that would be a mistake.
It's a different strategy, I think that when you dont trust a player you get rid and purchase a better player specially in CB position. a position where you shouldn't rotate a lot, you need 2 players who you trust and backups.
If you think that our CBs aren't trustworthy then we need at least one first teamer.
Personnally i want to trust in them.
Where have I said that? I don't trust any group of centre backs enough yo stay fit all season to go into the season with just 3 on the books. You need at least 4, and then possibly a youth prospect as a last resort.
Evans, Jones, Smalling, 1 other, youth player. That's what we should start the season with. Pick 2 out of the first 3 and make a pairing out of them, and the other 2 are back-up with a youth player there if you need them.
Now, with unlimited funds I'd gladly sign Hummels, pair him with Evans and keep what we have as back up, but I don't think that's likely, s9 I'd be happy with Evans + Smalling/Jones, and a cheaper young centre have with potential as back up. If van Gaal think Indi is that guy then i'd be happy with that.
What's the issue?
I have to say again, you're the only one talking about rotation. I haven't mentioned that at all. Am I writing in a foreign language or do you have comprehension issues? I'll write it so you can see it.
I'M NOT ADVOCATING ROTATION.
Do you get it yet? fecking hell.
And no, 3 + Keane or Thorpe isn't enough. Not if you want yo get anywhere near the top four. If we go into the new season without adding at least one centre back we're in trouble.
You know what, feck this thread. The level of spasticity of this place has grown to worrying levels of late. It's as if people can't actually read.
You are the one seeing an issue with our opinion we don't with your. It's just that we don't have unlimited fund i prefer a back up or better a conccurent
in the RB position for example Janmaat.
Because Rafael will be injured or get sent off and one of Smalling and Jones will play RB, and i don't want that. I want 5 CBs: 3 ready + 2 young.
It's a choice, your's is acceptable, i prefer mine.
Varela is more ready for the first team than Keane/Thorpe IMO.
Jesus Christ!!
You are asking me about why it's a waste of talent. I give my own answer because of rotation risk.
Whatever. I don't wanna continue talking to someone who can't even deal with someone else opinion. Everyone will always have different opinion, try to deal and respect on their different opinion. It's not like LVG will need to ask me for a transfer. It's his own decision.
You think that Varela can be a first teamer this season ?, because covering Rafael means playing a lot.
I thought about Varela and Janko but Rafael really is a nightmare.
And the RB is essential going forward, i'd prefer a second first teamer as RB than a young player.
This is retarded. Rotation risk? What risk? We play 2 out of 3, we sign 1 extra. That's 4 players for 2 positions. 2 play when they're fit and on form, the other 2 are back up. What's hard to understand there?
What is a rotation risk anyway? That's something you've made up.
The key point is their fitness. 3 centre backs plus youth options should be enough when we're not going to be competing in Europe. However, I agree that, as neither Evans, Smalling or Jones have been able to avoid suffering injuries through a season, I think it's important that we buy another CB.
Your point about RB could just as easily be made about CB. Jones and Smalling probably would have to cover Rafael at some point next season because of injury. Though with our current CB options, it could be just as likely that Carrick will have to pop up at CB at some point. Jones + Smalling at RB is more tolerable than Carrick at CB, particularly given the other options we have in CM. And we have Varela who could be given a chance.
I've no issue with you or your opinion, I just disagree. Your other man is banging on about rotation risk that nobody else has mentioned.
I'd be genuinely worried if we don't add a centre back to our squad before the season starts. The 3 we have and taking a chance on 2 guys who haven't played any higher than the Championship would worry me, and I doubt van Gaal will leave us with only that.
We could sign a backup centre back and fullback cover, if we shop clever. Van Gaal will.
I'm not pretending to be right, and you are proposing the same thing than me. 3 CBs + 2 youngs
I have a problem with the fact that we could us 3 injury prone player in the RB position with two who would be first choice at CB.
I prefer to sort out one position definitely whether it's CB or RB with a first teamer non injury prone. I chose the RB positon but that could be the CB's.
Edit: I forgot about Valencia if he can be a good back up for Rafael then yeah i'm all in for Martins Indi.
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You know I don't wanna continue this but since you just call someone's opinion is retard just because different opinion. I'm going to repeat this again!! Try to respect someone else different opinion. None will always have the same opinions. Got it??
And do I need to repeat the answer why it is rotation risk? You need to read my post carefully!! Or may be I should just make it way more simple one so you won't missed the answer. 4 similar level players fighting for 2 position. Try to imagine that. None of them want to sit on the bench just to watch someone who isn't better than himself is playing ahead of him. How can a defenders become great if they are being rotated. We need to have a permanent paired of centre back so they can build up a better communication and also having more experience.
Why not both though? That's the point I'm making.
I agree with you on needing cover for Rafael, though I wouldn't be surprised to see van Gaal use Valencia there. He likes fullbacks who get forward and provide width.
I like all 3 of our current centrebacks, but I'd genuinely worry about us if we go in without adequate backup for them, and I just don't see Keane and Thorpe being there yet. If they'd both had a premier league loan under their belt, like Evans had at Sunderland then sure, but they've never played higher than the championship. That's my worry, seeing one of them (or both) end up playing in big games in the premier league because some of the others are injured. Again.
You: Why signing BMI is a waste of talent
Me: Because of rotation risk.
If you don't like my answer then don't asking me a question!!
Great post.
There's no risk. If they're happy to come here and be back up so be it. The two best play, the others try to be good in training and catch the managers eye, and take chances when they arise (which they will, injuries happen) and play so well when they're in that the manager can't leave them out. Then the others try to get back in. Competition spurs players on.
There will be games for everyone, very few players play every game of a league season. So you don't have to rotate, you have your first choice pair and the other 2 try and make the manager pick them.
It's like you don't even understand football and the nature of having a squad of players.
Pretending for a moment that two defenders are injured at the same time:
Rafael and Jones: Valencia Evans Smalling Evra
Evans and Smalling: Rafael Jones Carrick Evra
Which of those looks weaker - that's essentially what we're talking about. In a worst case scenario, which emergency line-up would be more solid against City at the Etihad. For me, I'd rather have Valencia dropping to RB than Carrick at CB, which is why I'd say prioritise a CB if we can only get one.
Rafael and Jones: Valencia Evans Smalling Evra
Evans and Smalling: Rafael Jones Carrick Evra
Which of those looks weaker - that's essentially what we're talking about. In a worst case scenario, which emergency line-up would be more solid against City at the Etihad. For me, I'd rather have Valencia dropping to RB than Carrick at CB, which is why I'd say prioritise a CB if we can only get one.
Rotation Risk is just a phrase you've come up with that doesn't actually mean anything.Sigh. Okay whatever. That's enough. See this!! At least I'm respecting your opinion even when you called me don't understand football. Unlike you, can't respect and deal with someone else opinion.
It would have been alright if anyone was actually advocating rotation. It's a strawman argument because nobody involved has said "we should have 4 centre backs and rotate them".