Sounds to me like he's talking about pre Indyref 1
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
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I can understand some of your points and do agree with some. But there are others where I think you're just flat out in denial.
1. The Referendum was used as a platform by the far right (it certainly was promoted imo).
2. Could you provide me with a link to where the EU shot down Sturgeon? I must have missed it with the amount going on in the last few days.
3. Hate Crimes has risen, they may always have been there but its become far more vocal (see #1).
4. The uncertainty has come from the Leave Campaign having no idea what to do next. This is a direct result of the Referendum (also see my point in previous post about political parties being a mess)
5. You promise me there will be light at the end of the tunnel? Seriously?
6. I agree to an extent with your last paragraph, however, there is a big concern that the older generation are simply living in the past. The worlds moved on since the 70's, why are we moving back?
All I see is a lot of sweeping statements on both sides when the reality is nobody has a clue how this will change the country. There is no assurance because this has never happened before. So for people to claim that things will get better is frankly absurd, there's no way of knowing that. For all we know this might be for the better, it could however do untold damage to our economy and cause a fractured country.
Good. Now you get it. Nothing has any purpose, so don't bother caring.
Gloryhunter is upset because I said that life doesn't matter relatively speaking so why worry about it. He is now trying to turn it against me as I am showing interest in things that give me enjoyment, completely missing the point of my view on life in his attempt to be obtuse.
But like I said, it doesn't matter to me what he says and does and thinks about me, I'm just enjoying this interaction.
Here is a fallout from this side of the pond, on Saturday morning I spent some time working with a local Political Action Committee (a left leaning one that serves the City I live near). What I did was visit a neighborhood trying to get signatures on a petition to have an item added to the next ballot as a referendum that the citizens could vote directly on. I actually had a few people not willing to do so, using Brexit as an example of why they have now soured on referendums.
Institute of Directors: First signs Brexit will hit jobs
Credit Suisse: UK lead indicators are already consistent with a recession and will likely now worsen
No idea how accurate.
No i'm not Scotland has been informed it will have to Exit the EU with the UK and apply to join as every other country. Scotland will not be allowed to join though and keep the pound so a Euro currency side will have to join the debate. Scotland will not be allowed any independence referendum until after the 2 years negotiations. They will then have to push parliament to allow said referendum which will then only happen on a general election promise which at the earliest will be 2020. They will then still be made to use parliamentary procedure and then they will have to reapply to join. It's not going to be a case of we want our Indyref2 referendum so it will happen next week.
I've said in the NI/Scotland thread that NI are more fecked than anyone by this.
I come from a country whose pretty much Anglophile. We've been a British colony for hundreds of years, our parents/grandparents fought the war on Britain's side and got the George cross because of it (which we display proudly on our flag) and the elitist tend to speak in English to distinguish themselves from the rest of the plebs. However even our politicians are admitting that leaving the EU is suicide.
Ironically Brexit is currently being supported by some nephew of our own Farage ie the man who cut Malta ties from the Union completely.
Again, could you provide a link? I'm not saying you aren't wrong, but i'd rather read a few articles than a random from the Caf. No offense.
Finally found a chart which shows voting for different age groups over time
From the telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-would-happen-if-more-young-people-voted.html
Young people voting seemed to collapse as Labour lurched to the right, but also because they are less settle; the number who went to university increased and the number who have a job aged 18 decreased.
From the telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-would-happen-if-more-young-people-voted.html
Young people voting seemed to collapse as Labour lurched to the right, but also because they are less settle; the number who went to university increased and the number who have a job aged 18 decreased.
I cant say I agree with you there, and I don't share your optimism. Also, we have been here long enough to be able to take some forms of racial abuse in our stride. As the above poster says, this could possibly be his wifes first experience. That can be very painful and traumatic...
The only thing I can say is at least it would most likely be only verbal abuse.
Someone on reddit just made a very good point.
In the EU, we had a veto against Turkey joining the EU
In the EEA, we have no veto, and still have to accept all their "80 million" workers
In the EU, we had a veto against Turkey joining the EU
In the EEA, we have no veto, and still have to accept all their "80 million" workers
oh my god the stupidity. Remain are to blame for not holding Leave to their Norway and Switzerland paradise comments.Finally found a chart which shows voting for different age groups over time
From the telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...-would-happen-if-more-young-people-voted.html
Young people voting seemed to collapse as Labour lurched to the right, but also because they are less settle; the number who went to university increased and the number who have a job aged 18 decreased.
I don't know if it's the same in England but in France we virtually have the same politicians since the 80s, the parliament average age is around 55 years old and they have lied to us from the day of our birth. We have never seen them do anything for the country and they barely mention the youth during their campaign, the rare times they do its just empty promises that they forgot the day of their elections.
The older population have witnessed political actions, they have experienced them some have been other good but at least they saw something.
I do think the leavers are right in a way. We have to work together now to get EU-Lite. We can't remain in the EU as it is because 52% of people voted Leave. It's constitutionally wrong.
- Free movement of workers is fine. Norway and Swiss have it that way anyway, so why can't we? Nothing is done that can't be undone.
- Restrictions on migration from Turkey for at least 10 years (and any future expansion countries).
- A right to veto some EU laws, meaning it just wont apply to the UK (we'd never use it, but it gives us sovereignty).
- Ability to ask migrants to leave if they don't have a job (and haven't lived here for.. 3 years?)
- We're happy to contribute to the EU budget. Heck, double it.
- Scotland and Northern Ireland can stay in EU proper.
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Yep.
Same as in the EU we had a veto on altering the terms of our rebate. Now we won't.
In the EU we had a veto on TTIP, now we won't.
Etc...
I've not seen Game of Thrones but clicking on that there's a few GoT images on the right. Probably best to put a notice or something in your post
I have to be optimistic, this country simply cannot descend into primal racial warfare. British people are better than that.
Any racial discrimination is traumatic, but unfortunately - racism exists, we can't pretend it doesn't & I don't personally know any people of colour who haven't gone through some form of racial discrimination, which is why I said it's likely she will encounter it at some point.
I don't even know what GOT is. Feel free to delete if its some sort of spoiler.
All would be welcomed by sensible people on both sides, however the last two are not. I doubt many will want us contributing double to a union in which we have decreased power, furthermore for Scotland and NI to remain in the EU they will definitely have to leave the UK.
Now that is the problem. A large sentiment of the leave campaign was regarding immigration and how we need to control it.
It would make no sense to leave with an aim to control immigration to then continue allowing free movement of people.
Because of this sentiment, it screws us in many ways.
Yeah I was kind of joking about the last one.
I said here I think all four nations should now get full-member status to prevent a permanent break away. If politicians really want to save the union, then they have to let Scotland choose its own path in the world. The UK can become a political-economic union, and let Scotland represent itself on the world stage.
But even if that isn't an option, the other things we need to work together on.
The doubling of the EU budget is also a joke, but it's better than having no EU at all, and I think the EU will want serious concessions if we want a better deal.
Yeah... EEA is probably the smartest and best way forward now... it's just so feckin' dumb. We've basically traded in our brand new Samsung Galaxy for a Nokia 3310... we can make and recieve calls, but fecked if we can download apps, edit it's software, or use it in a smart manner. We can play Snake though I suppose, so that's a bonus.
The other problem is immigration though... people may well be mightly fecked off that nothing is being done to halt EU immigration, which might lead to some ugly scenes.
There's also the fact that we will have to pay just as much as we did before into the EU - but I doubt the majority of the public will actually notice that.
Norway and Switzerland are arguably the two richest countries in the world and didn't need the EU. They also pump loads of money into the EU for their agreement (which they can easily afford). The UK will still have to pump loads of money into the EU to get the agreement.
Besides, there's a big difference between figuring out agreements between two countries who were never in the EU and have populations of 5m-8m and a country that actively voted to leave the EU and has a population circa 65m. The UK are in for a really tough ride if they're going to be relying on getting the free movement and trade from the EU to keep their economy afoot if they invoke article 50.
The most problematic bit there (aside from casual doubling of contributions lolz) is Scotland and N. Ireland. They aren't states so they can't have a separate relationship with Europe unless/until they secede.
Yes.
We're faced with a choice now as a country - either we let our economy go to hell, or say we'll allow free movement. Simple as. We have to take the second option, but stuff has been let out of pandora's box that is going to be very difficult to put back. Boris Johnson and Gove will need to be held accountable for whatever happens as a result.
There is a small difference between free movement of people, and free movement of workers.
Judging from the way our economy has tanked, the £350m sent to the EU which is actually £145 is money really well spent .
Judging from the way our economy has tanked, the £350m sent to the EU which is actually £145 is money really well spent .
Definitely, but the EU knows the UK has a mandate to leave now. Hopefully they want us to stay enough to actually do a proper deal.
A huge proportion of the leave voters might be annoyed if we can't properly leave, and still give money to the EU. But I'm fine with that. We only need 2% to switch sides, and I think we'd safely get 10%, 20% if done properly.
The number of people who are already pissed off with the current establishment will be fuming if we leave the EU but still allow free movement. Better hope that it boils down to more of a pride thing of standing alone rather than truly about immigration.
Either way, it could get ugly in a number of different ways.
The EU is free movement of workers (well, work, study and retire) ... you can't just move to a country and not do anything.
I think they class it as being "Economically active" ... but yeah, you can't just go.
That's my worry. But having to work harder to counter rising anti-immigration sentiment is preferable to a crashing economy.
Not a good example because a Nokia 3310 has actual, genuine advantages over the Samsung Galaxy: significantly longer battery life, for one, and you can drop it as many times you want, the biggest danger is that it will fall on your foot and cripple you for life. But I guarantee you will be able to call an ambulance with the phone afterwards. It will be undamaged!
I *think* they are two separate things. At least, that's what I have been telling people for the 10 years.
Free movement of workers is secured in the European Community (wiki)
But as an EU Citizen you also get (wiki)
More info:
So at the moment, I think anyone from the EU can come here without a job offer. With free movement of workers though, they may need a job offer before hand, or at least to have a job offer within x months?
if I'm wrong, someone tell me.
Cameron passes the buck on everything to next government
Listening to Cameron now, he's passing the buck on everything to the next Government.
Yep. It's the political equivalent of "That would be an ecumenical matter."
This makes me a little more sad, you seem like a good bloke @rcoobc and want to try and understand, but even you have it wrong.
It is freedom of movement for workers buddy, you can't just move to Spain and sit on your arse claiming social. You must register with the new EU country on arrival and you must find work, otherwise you are not entitled to stay.
Makes a change from it being the previous Government I suppose.