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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Honest John said:
You said yes to me paying more. My point is that there comes a point when you destroy aspiration. People that open businesses often risk a lot in the early days. They also stand to lose more if it fails. That is not to diminish the hardship that is generally felt by the employees. But there should be a differential in rewards that recognises those risks. If that differential is eroded then the incentive to take the risk and start a business in the first place diminishes.

But if like, Red Silva up there you are a fan of the workers owning the means of production then fine - but be happy with your commune and don't try and compete with other countries because you will lose.
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I doubt many people who start a business are thinking about what they'll be taxed if they eventually earn above 80,000. In fact that is such a far off and fantastical sum that the fact that they could earn 80,000 would be motivation enough. We had tax rates way higher than this in the post war years, do you think no businesses were started then?
 
MadMike said:
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with a hard no on that.



Tax%20Avoidance%20and%20Tax%20Evasion_s6RvzK3.JPG


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https://fullfact.org/economy/tax-avoidance-evasion-uk/


Any more "alternative facts"?
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You belive HMRC? Especially one run by the Tories?
 
Adisa said:
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This makes my blood boil. If she’s blocking a criminal investigation for political gains she should be held up in front of our highest court and tried for obstruction of justice.

Words cannot describe how much I despise these odious creatures. They’re in their own fecking career bubble with zero concern for the nations interests.
 
JPRouve said:
I think that she is just not good at communicating. Surely you are not planning to use the army for any sort of emergency relief related to Brexit?
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If there are major blockages because of customs checks at borders and medicines are held up by that, then army/RAF personnel and army/RAF aviation vehicles would be the best way of moving them I would have thought
 
Tarrou said:
Just reinforces my point then! :-)

Are we sixth at least?
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As Spanner says we chop and change with France but India is right up both arses with a much higher growth rate. I personally believe in paying tax for public services, and I'm willing to pay more myself, not just say someone else should. The size of the economy is a crap metric though, GDP per capita would be better.
 
If there is a second referendum it should be:

A) Remain a member of the European Union, lets pretend this nightmare didn't happen
B) I don't have a fecking clue. This is a parliamentary democracy do what you think is in my best interest like I fecking pay you for
C) Leave under the terms of the agreed deal, staying would be too embarrassing
D) Leave without a deal, I don't have a job anyway
 
Drainy said:
If there is a second referendum it should be:

A) Remain a member of the European Union, lets pretend this nightmare didn't happen
B) I don't have a fecking clue. This is a parliamentary democracy do what you think is in my best interest like I fecking pay you for
C) Leave under the terms of the agreed deal, staying would be too embarrassing
D) Leave without a deal, I don't have a job anyway
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E)boue
 
Who can blame politicians for not bothering with knowing things when the people vote on what they want to believe anyway. As long as you manage to leave before you have the actual responsibility to see it through and you don't suffer the political consequences beyond the few nerds who pay attention.

Just don't go against the Brexit hive mind.
 
Mozza said:
I doubt mt any people who start a business are thinking about what they'll be taxed if they eventually earn above 80,000. In fact that is such a far off and fantastical sum that the fact that they could earn 80,000 would be motivation enough. We had tax rates way higher than this in the post war years, do you think no businesses were started then?
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80k is not fantastical at all. It is not uncommon for a person running a business with 50 people in it to be on 6 figures these days. And it is not just bosses either. I have a skilled workforce and there are at least 5 shopfloor engineers in the business who (with overtime) earn £65k+ every year. One guy regularly earns £75k.

The high tax threshold starts at £46k so with NI I take home less than half of what I earn.

For people who earn over 100k it is worse. because for every £2 over that earned you lose £1 off your tax free allowance. At the moment that is about £11.5k. So if your earnings get to £123k you have lost all the tax-free allowance meaning that you start paying tax at 20% from zero and the 40% band kicks in around £35k. My benefits in kind - i.e car, fuel and health cover take me to that threshold so that is why I clear less than 50% of what I earn. If that situation worsened then I there is not doubt in my mind that this would have an effect on business creation. You'd get CEO's retraining to be self-employed plumbers because they'd be better off with none of the responsibility. How does that help jobs?

You are right this is still more than a lot of people. But you should look into post war tax rates. Take 1975/76 when I first started. There was hardly any tax free allowance and the rate started at 33%. High earners were really targeted paying up to 90%. We had a lot of nationalised industries with unions who were used to having their pay demands met. These pay demands were met by the UK tax payer. Which in turn meant the probability of taxes reducing was almost zero. The country's public services were actually crap and in no way reflected that tax take. Loads of wealthy folk left the country and although I don't have data to hand I would wager that the rate of new business creation was nowhere near what it was in the late 80's when taxes became more business friendly.

The thing to bear in mind is that in order for the government to run those public services (such as they were) required the burden to be shared by the general populace i.e 33% in the £. The tax burden is similar now but it is not taken at source as it was then and much is put into VAT and other things.

This is why Labour are lying about their spending plans. To get anywhere near funding them they would have to take it from the whole of the workforce and not just the high paid and businesses. That is to say nothing of the borrowing.

And one more thing. You obviously think that I am some high-flying elitist rather than the work-a-day boss I am, along with thousand of others in this country. Most of whom are doing their level best to keep their businesses afloat and, if they are like me, it's not all for selfish reasons. Some, you may be surprised to learn, actually care quite deeply about their employees. But if you want to characterise us all has Victorian work-house bourgeois chucking 9 year old boys into machinery for no wages, then that is your prerogative.

You presumably are on this site because you support United. I would venture that you should look in the direction of players that earn 300k a week and clubs that can spend £200m on a kid that happens to be good at kicking a ball around.
 
Honest John said:
80k is not fantastical at all. It is not uncommon for a person running a business with 50 people in it to be on 6 figures these days. And it is not just bosses either. I have a skilled workforce and there are at least 5 shopfloor engineers in the business who (with overtime) earn £65k+ every year. One guy regularly earns £75k.

The high tax threshold starts at £46k so with NI I take home less than half of what I earn.

For people who earn over 100k it is worse. because for every £2 over that earned you lose £1 off your tax free allowance. At the moment that is about £11.5k. So if your earnings get to £123k you have lost all the tax-free allowance meaning that you start paying tax at 20% from zero and the 40% band kicks in around £35k. My benefits in kind - i.e car, fuel and health cover take me to that threshold so that is why I clear less than 50% of what I earn. If that situation worsened then I there is not doubt in my mind that this would have an effect on business creation. You'd get CEO's retraining to be self-employed plumbers because they'd be better off with none of the responsibility. How does that help jobs?

You are right this is still more than a lot of people. But you should look into post war tax rates. Take 1975/76 when I first started. There was hardly any tax free allowance and the rate started at 33%. High earners were really targeted paying up to 90%. We had a lot of nationalised industries with unions who were used to having their pay demands met. These pay demands were met by the UK tax payer. Which in turn meant the probability of taxes reducing was almost zero. The country's public services were actually crap and in no way reflected that tax take. Loads of wealthy folk left the country and although I don't have data to hand I would wager that the rate of new business creation was nowhere near what it was in the late 80's when taxes became more business friendly.

The thing to bear in mind is that in order for the government to run those public services (such as they were) required the burden to be shared by the general populace i.e 33% in the £. The tax burden is similar now but it is not taken at source as it was then and much is put into VAT and other things.

This is why Labour are lying about their spending plans. To get anywhere near funding them they would have to take it from the whole of the workforce and not just the high paid and businesses. That is to say nothing of the borrowing.

And one more thing. You obviously think that I am some high-flying elitist rather than the work-a-day boss I am, along with thousand of others in this country. Most of whom are doing their level best to keep their businesses afloat and, if they are like me, it's not all for selfish reasons. Some, you may be surprised to learn, actually care quite deeply about their employees. But if you want to characterise us all has Victorian work-house bourgeois chucking 9 year old boys into machinery for no wages, then that is your prerogative.

You presumably are on this site because you support United. I would venture that you should look in the direction of players that earn 300k a week and clubs that can spend £200m on a kid that happens to be good at kicking a ball around.
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You're wasting your time John, these people just don't understand these things.
 
Honest John said:
And one more thing. You obviously think that I am some high-flying elitist rather than the work-a-day boss I am, along with thousand of others in this country. Most of whom are doing their level best to keep their businesses afloat and, if they are like me, it's not all for selfish reasons. Some, you may be surprised to learn, actually care quite deeply about their employees. But if you want to characterise us all has Victorian work-house bourgeois chucking 9 year old boys into machinery for no wages, then that is your prerogative.
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I'm sure your a perfectly nice person(Although you do seem to like the tories so.....) but the system your part of is far worse than the victorian work houses.
 
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Honest John said:
You said yes to me paying more. My point is that there comes a point when you destroy aspiration. People that open businesses often risk a lot in the early days. They also stand to lose more if it fails. That is not to diminish the hardship that is generally felt by the employees. But there should be a differential in rewards that recognises those risks. If that differential is eroded then the incentive to take the risk and start a business in the first place diminishes.

But if like, Red Silva up there you are a fan of the workers owning the means of production then fine - but be happy with your commune and don't try and compete with other countries because you will lose.
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Feck that. All the best to you, the country needs more people like you. Why should someone who shows a bit of initiative, and is doing well for himself have a huge whack taken out of his hard earned cash for the government to waste? Pay your fair share surely but punishing business owners is not the right way to grow the economy. Too many businesses are just working for the government and not earning money.
 
Sassy Colin said:
You're wasting your time John, these people just don't understand these things.
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I know. There's a lot of hatred on here towards anyone who supports aspiration, freedom of choice and may have had some success.

I'm sick of people trying to make me feel like I'm supposed to be ashamed about that.
 
Sweet Square said:
I'm sure your a perfectly nice person(Although you do seem to like the tories so.....) but the system your part of is far worse than the victorian work houses.
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We're all part of that system. Also, I strongly disagree with that statement.
 
Sweet Square said:
We are but some of us actually want to change the system into a better one.
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Have you any historical models in mind, or is the system you have in mind something more novel?
 
2cents said:
Have you any historical models in mind, or is the system you have in mind something more novel?
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There has plenty of better systems just in capitalism that have been better for the whole of British society(I mean christ New Labour who I hate had a more human system than todays tory party). What the Labour Party is offering today(Which John seems so angry about)is hardly revolutionary, I'm not asking John to given all power to the workers(Although that would be great)just that he pays some more in tax.
 
I think the UK is the only country that can have a party that has imposed 8 years of austerity, polling in first place. It's fecking depressing. Look at the debates around brexit for the past two years?
We are a stupid country...stupid.
 
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