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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
We need to stop agreeing with Stanley, this isn't healthy.:)

true

Cameron's promise for a Brexit referendum was a centerpiece of Tory party GE strategy. It was not some ridiculous proposal buried deep in their manifesto whom no one would ever take seriously. Whoever voted that day knew exactly what they were voting for.
 
true

Cameron's promise for a Brexit referendum was a centerpiece of Tory party GE strategy. It was not some ridiculous proposal buried deep in their manifesto whom no one would ever take seriously. Whoever voted that day knew exactly what they were voting for.

Obviously he did it to attact Labour and UKIP voters over to the Tories to make sure they got in to power, but it backfired because he underestimated the outcome.
Thus according to you the only reason anyone voted for the Tories was to have a Brexit referendum which everyone in 2015 knew would result in a Leave vote and anyone who voted for another party didn't want a referendum or to leave.
I call nonsense.
 
Obviously he did it to attact Labour and UKIP voters over to the Tories to make sure they got in to power, but it backfired because he underestimated the outcome.
Thus according to you the only reason anyone voted for the Tories was to have a Brexit referendum which everyone in 2015 knew would result in a Leave vote and anyone who voted for another party didn't want a referendum or to leave.
I call nonsense.


I am not saying that they voted for just the Brexit referendum. For example I know some who voted Tory during that election because of the tax cuts. However let us not kid ourselves on this. They knew the risks involving voting for the Tory party (ie a referendum on Brexit) and they still voted for it. Its not just Cameron who underestimated the outcome but every silly remainer who voted for the Tory party during that particular GE.

I dare to say that they are more to blame then the leavers. At least the leavers were fed tons of lies about Brexit including 4-5 scenarios (hard brexit, a cherry picking deal with Europe, EFTA, EEA, Boris negotiating a better deal with the EU and then offer a second referendum in two years time etc). The Brexit referendum was pretty clear to everybody. You vote Tory and you'll end up with a Brexit referendum.
 
I am not saying that they voted for just the Brexit referendum. For example I know some who voted Tory during that election because of the tax cuts. However let us not kid ourselves on this. They knew the risks involving voting for the Tory party (ie a referendum on Brexit) and they still voted for it. Its not just Cameron who underestimated the outcome but every silly remainer who voted for the Tory party during that particular GE.

I dare to say that they are more to blame then the leavers. At least the leavers were fed tons of lies about Brexit including 4-5 scenarios (hard brexit, a cherry picking deal with Europe, EFTA, EEA, Boris negotiating a better deal with the EU and then offer a second referendum in two years time etc). The Brexit referendum was pretty clear to everybody. You vote Tory and you'll end up with a Brexit referendum.

I don't agree, I don't see how a traditional Tory voter would vote for Labour to be in government. Do you really think that Tories thought that even if there was a referendum , people would actually vote Leave, Cameron certainly didn't and I would guess most people didn't on all sides, the risk at that time was small. Being wise after the event etc.

Obviously the leavers were fed tons of lies and the remain campaign was hopeless - the blame is fully on the people who voted to leave, 100% because they can't think for themselves.

Edit: if the only subject of the 2015 GE was about Brexit, why didn't everyone who wanted to leave vote for UKIP - result was guaranteed - but they got what one seat?
 
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I don't agree, I don't see how a traditional Tory voter would vote for Labour to be in government. Do you really think that Tories thought that even if there was a referendum , people would actually vote Leave, Cameron certainly didn't and I would guess most people didn't on all sides, the risk at that time was small. Being wise after the event etc.

Obviously the leavers were fed tons of lies and the remain campaign was hopeless - the blame is fully on the people who voted to leave, 100% because they can't think for themselves.


Harsh.....

There were also plenty of people who voted to REMAIN because they, equally, couldn't think for themselves and believed Project Fear.

But agree - both sides lied and too many people believed the lies from both sides.

By the way, I see the ' Divorce Bill ' is now being suggested at 60 million, not 100 million, although still no itemised bill.

Seems like a bargain to me, just a couple of years' of the equivalent Trade Defecit on the UK's trade with the EU assuming, of course, no FTA.
 
Harsh.....

There were also plenty of people who voted to REMAIN because they, equally, couldn't think for themselves and believed Project Fear.

But agree - both sides lied and too many people believed the lies from both sides.

By the way, I see the ' Divorce Bill ' is now being suggested at 60 million, not 100 million, although still no itemised bill.

Seems like a bargain to me, just a couple of years' of the equivalent Trade Defecit on the UK's trade with the EU assuming, of course, no FTA.

I don't disagree with the thinking for themselves part but as I've said all along such vital, virtually irreversible decisions should not be put in the hands of people who basically don't understand very much about the decision they're making.

I think the bill is itemised showing what the items are but without an actual figure - it's a question of whether the Uk are willing to agree in principle to pay those items.
 
I don't agree, I don't see how a traditional Tory voter would vote for Labour to be in government. Do you really think that Tories thought that even if there was a referendum , people would actually vote Leave, Cameron certainly didn't and I would guess most people didn't on all sides, the risk at that time was small. Being wise after the event etc.

Obviously the leavers were fed tons of lies and the remain campaign was hopeless - the blame is fully on the people who voted to leave, 100% because they can't think for themselves.

Edit: if the only subject of the 2015 GE was about Brexit, why didn't everyone who wanted to leave vote for UKIP - result was guaranteed - but they got what one seat?

I was in that same situation a couple of years ago. My family are as labour as one can be and yet, I ended up voting to the nationalist party simply because the PN was in favour of EU membership while the labour party was not. I had family and friends who stop speaking to me because of that Yet that was the right decision to take and today even labour agrees that their views on the matter were wrong.

So seriously, I am the last person who can show sympathy to these traditional tory voters who voted out of loyalty rather then just use their brains. TBH I honestly struggle how anyone whose neither filthy rich nor old can vote to the Tory Party in the first place. But that's just me.


The Brexit referendum was a centerpiece of Cameron's strategy to win the GE. Those who voted for the Tory party knew exactly that a Brexit referendum will follow.
 
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So if I give you a gun, you have no willpower not to shoot yourself, thus you will shoot yourself and thus you will believe that I have murdered you.
This is exactly the feeble-mindedness that I'm moaning about.
If I Offer you a referendum and you truly don't want to leave the EU, you vote for someone else. Unless of course, you are an arrogant tory.
 
I don't disagree with the thinking for themselves part but as I've said all along such vital, virtually irreversible decisions should not be put in the hands of people who basically don't understand very much about the decision they're making.

I think the bill is itemised showing what the items are but without an actual figure - it's a question of whether the Uk are willing to agree in principle to pay those items.


I think I'd side with the public ( whichever side of the vote ) because they know what and how their lives in their own country to be, rather than trust any politician ( whichever side of the spectrum ) to actually do what's best for the public rather than what's best for their own ideology and careers, of course.

The EU ( in it's original format as a Trading Bloc ) would have been just fine, perfect almost, if the politicians with their ideology hadn't got their hands on it.
 
I don't agree, I don't see how a traditional Tory voter would vote for Labour to be in government. Do you really think that Tories thought that even if there was a referendum , people would actually vote Leave, Cameron certainly didn't and I would guess most people didn't on all sides, the risk at that time was small
Heads or Tails, the risk was massive
 
I was in that same situation a couple of years ago. My family are as labour as one can be and yet, I ended up voting to the nationalist party simply because the PN was in favour of EU membership while the labour party was not. I had family and friends who stop speaking to me because of that Yet that was the right decision to take and today even labour agrees that their views on the matter were wrong.

So seriously, I am the last person who can show sympathy to these traditional tory voters who voted out of loyalty rather then just use their brains. TBH I honestly struggle how anyone whose neither filthy rich nor old can vote to the Tory Party in the first place. But that's just me.


The Brexit referendum was a centerpiece of Cameron's strategy to win the GE. Those who voted for the Tory party knew exactly that a Brexit referendum will follow.

Yes they knew a referendum would follow but you're talking as if it was a foregone conclusion that Leave would win, which was far from the case at the time

If I Offer you a referendum and you truly don't want to leave the EU, you vote for someone else. Unless of course, you are an arrogant tory.

Not if you don't agree with the other policies, if you want to leave, vote for UKIP - but then people didn't because they didn't agree with some of their other policies, which is exactly my point.

I think I'd side with the public ( whichever side of the vote ) because they know what and how their lives in their own country to be, rather than trust any politician ( whichever side of the spectrum ) to actually do what's best for the public rather than what's best for their own ideology and careers, of course.

The EU ( in it's original format as a Trading Bloc ) would have been just fine, perfect almost, if the politicians with their ideology hadn't got their hands on it.

I agree with you about the politicians but if you are going to vote one way or the other, make sure that you have the correct information, even now 99% of the population couldn't name an EU law that infringes on their personal life but many voted because of that amongst many other things they were lied to about.
 
Yes they knew a referendum would follow but you're talking as if it was a foregone conclusion that Leave would win, which was far from the case at the time

.

It was a foregone conclusion that a pandora's box was going to be opened which may have lead to a disaster. Which in my opinion is pretty crazy considering that the Tory Party was still going to win that election either way.
 
If I Offer you a referendum and you truly don't want to leave the EU, you vote for someone else. Unless of course, you are an arrogant tory.
That isn't fair, because the Tories also promised to continue to ruin the lives of disabled people and push thousands to their deaths and that is like promising a child a new shiny red bike if they eat their veg.
 
It was a foregone conclusion that a pandora's box was going to be opened which may have lead to a disaster. Which in my opinion is pretty crazy considering that the Tory Party was still going to win that election either way.

But would they have won the election if they hadn't, serious question, after all they needed the Liberals in 2010 and they need the DUP now.
 
Not if you don't agree with the other policies, if you want to leave, vote for UKIP - but then people didn't because they didn't agree with some of their other policies, which is exactly my point
It doesn't matter what your point is cos if you don't want a referendum vote someone else or don't vote at all, it's quite simple, I'd expect a five year old to understand it.
 
It doesn't matter what your point is cos if you don't want a referendum vote someone else or don't vote at all, it's quite simple, I'd expect a five year old to understand it.

This makes no sense.
If I had voted at the time and the Tories had said - right we're leaving the EU - of course I would have voted against them , but that's not what happened.

Edit roll on to 2017 GE - most Tory MPs were pro-EU and most Labour MP's are pro-EU but both leaders are anti-EU - what do people do?
 
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Yeah totally no risk at all, I get it

There's a risk in everything, Cameron could have turned round and said they weren't going to have a referendum after he got elected so people who wanted a referendum could have voted for them for nothing.

Still don't see how you or anyone relieves the culpability of the people who actually did vote leave from the consequences of what happens after Brexit.
Same old, same old, always blame somebody else.
 
If you vote for someone then you're voting for all their policies, whether you like all of them or not.

In this case a vote for the Tories was a vote for a referendum. Not everyone who voted Tory wanted a referendum but they voted for one all the same.

No party is going to perfectly represent your world view in its entirety. Each individual voter has to decide what compromises they're willing to make and vote accordingly. In this case the pro-EU Tory voters made their compromise on the referendum and risked the general public voting in a way that ultimately didn't suit them. In retrospect the assumption that the vote wouldn't go against them was (given the high stakes) terribly reckless and naive.

There's more than enough blame to go around but those who knowingly voted for a Tory party promising a referendum have to take their share.
 
There's a risk in everything, Cameron could have turned round and said they weren't going to have a referendum after he got elected so people who wanted a referendum could have voted for them for nothing.

Still don't see how you or anyone relieves the culpability of the people who actually did vote leave from the consequences of what happens after Brexit.
Same old, same old, always blame somebody else.
:lol:

Blame someone else, that's rich. Blaming someone else is all you've done for the past 20 posts.
 
In this case the pro-EU Tory voters made their compromise on the referendum and risked the general public voting in a way that ultimately didn't suit them. In retrospect the assumption that the vote wouldn't go against them was (given the high stakes) terribly reckless and naive.
This is what Paul isn't getting
 
I agree with you about the politicians but if you are going to vote one way or the other, make sure that you have the correct information, even now 99% of the population couldn't name an EU law that infringes on their personal life but many voted because of that amongst many other things they were lied to about.


I'm sure there are '00s of '000s in the UK and here who can't, but there were lots of people in the UK who voted not about EU Law and the ECJ, didn't believe either side's promises, lies and threats, etc, but experience the EU's effects on ALL its members in their everyday life.

Live in some countries, those effects are the equivalent of the Golden Goose.

Live in other countries, and it's pretty easy to believe the EU just takes the piss.

The EU doesn't create wealth for everyone - the cake is a finite size, and everytime you give people more than they contribute to making it, it means somone else receives less that they contribute to making it.

I'm fairly sure that's how most people in the UK were thinking when they voted to leave.
 
:lol:

Blame someone else, that's rich. Blaming someone else is all you've done for the past 20 posts.

I'm blaming the people that actually did it, sounds reasonable to me.

I've gathered that the labour contingent have united from both sides to bash the tories and absolve labour from any wrongdoing.
Carry on if it makes you happy - I've no sympathy with the tories or labour for quite some time.
 

It's quite unbeleviable, isn't it :(.

After admitting "we haven't done too badly" when the presenter told him "you've done alright out of it," he added: "I just feel we would be better off out of the EU."

How these people even dare to open their mouths in public. Drive the country they are running down the drain, for no good reason other than vanity, and then come back with 'I just feel'.

It's so depressing. I love the British people even if i'm not one of them. They deserve better than this. They deserve better than the incompetent buffons now complaining that their own fantasies won't come to fruition. Fox now saying the UK won't be 'Blackmailed', FFS, they are actively ruining their country's negotiating position by insulting the ones they are negotiating with.

And to think that their counterparts were even willing to act as if they hadn't heard the million and one lies told about them during the campaign... for the common good. The Brits should get out their pitchforks and drive out these lunatics sabotaging their and their childrens future.
 
I agree with you about the politicians but if you are going to vote one way or the other, make sure that you have the correct information, even now 99% of the population couldn't name an EU law that infringes on their personal life but many voted because of that amongst many other things they were lied to about.


I'm sure there are '00s of '000s in the UK and here who can't, but there were lots of people in the UK who voted not about EU Law and the ECJ, didn't believe either side's promises, lies and threats, etc, but experience the EU's effects on ALL its members in their everyday life.

Live in some countries, those effects are the equivalent of the Golden Goose.

Live in other countries, and it's pretty easy to believe the EU just takes the piss.

The EU doesn't create wealth for everyone - the cake is a finite size, and everytime you give people more than they contribute to making it, it means somone else receives less that they contribute to making it.

I'm fairly sure that's how most people in the UK were thinking when they voted to leave.

I did say it was one of the reasons. I'll be waiting to find out how these people's lives have been improved by voting as they did in say 5 years time
 
I did say it was one of the reasons. I'll be waiting to find out how these people's lives have been improved by voting as they did in say 5 years time


Hope I'm still around by then !!! The way I feel this week, might not even make it to Brexit Day - Frau FBR dragged me on on a 200km 'randonne' last week through the Alps with a couple of friends, and still unbelievably stiff everywhere except where I'd love to be unbelievably stiff. Ah well.....

Even worse, off to the Dark Continent tomorrow for four or five weeks to help create a few more millionaires in the Nigerian and Angolan Customs Authorities, lol.

Hope the networks in our offices hold up - otherwise, that's it from me till I get back.
 
The EU doesn't create wealth for everyone - the cake is a finite size, and everytime you give people more than they contribute to making it, it means somone else receives less that they contribute to making it.

That is how running a small corner shop might work but it is utter rubbish at the scale of a continent wide multi-nation economy.
 
That is how running a small corner shop might work but it is utter rubbish at the scale of a continent wide multi-nation economy.


Go on then....

Convince me how the EU creates wealth in the same way that its individual members do.

It doesn't - it simply redistributes the membership fees....Some countries win, others lose out.

I remember a few months ago making you a personal offer that I thought you wouldn't be able to resist as it was based exactly on the EU's very own 'collect and spend' money carousel which you appear to think is so wonderful.

Strangely, you declined.
 
true

Cameron's promise for a Brexit referendum was a centerpiece of Tory party GE strategy. It was not some ridiculous proposal buried deep in their manifesto whom no one would ever take seriously. Whoever voted that day knew exactly what they were voting for.

I agree whole heartedly with you in this post.
 
But would they have won the election if they hadn't, serious question, after all they needed the Liberals in 2010 and they need the DUP now.

I think they would but that's not the issue here. Whoever voted for the Tory party during that particular election was also voting for a Brexit Referendum with all the risks attached to it. Was it the only thing they voted for? Probably not. But they did vote for it.

I think that decision was even more simple to understand then Brexit itself. In the latter case the Brexiters came with a number of strategies they could make this a success (From re-negotiating with the EU for better terms, right to a cherry picking deal, EFTA, EEA and hard Brexit). In the former case it was Tory Party in government = Brexit referendum. No smokescreens, no lies, no different strategies.
 
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I agree with you about the politicians but if you are going to vote one way or the other, make sure that you have the correct information, even now 99% of the population couldn't name an EU law that infringes on their personal life but many voted because of that amongst many other things they were lied to about.

The biggest advantage Brexiters had over the Remain camp was that they seem to have an ad hoc plan for everybody. It offered hard brexit to the isolationists. It offered a cherry picking deal to those who wanted the best of both worlds. It offered an EEA/EFTA deal to those who believed that a cherry picking deal wasn't possible and it offered to renegotiate EU membership with a stronger hand to those who wanted the UK to remain in the EU but who weren't exactly happy with the current package deal. The remainers had only 1 deal to offer and that was the current EU membership with its set of positives that were being taken for granted and its set of flaws whom everybody knew about.

That strategy won the battle but will leave a big chunk of people with a very sour taste. Its mathematically impossible to please everybody at the same time.
 
It doesn't matter what your point is cos if you don't want a referendum vote someone else or don't vote at all, it's quite simple, I'd expect a five year old to understand it.

I'd go further even than this. What type of a person voted Tory (or would have if given the opportunity to vote) to enable the referendum while believing that leaving the EU would be an unprecedented disaster and then claims during the referendum that leaving is too big a risk to run?

It strikes me a pretty obvious that if you feel so strongly that there is a huge risk you don't start the whole thing rolling by voting for the referendum party.

It also makes you a massive hypocrite to then start calling those who voted leave stupid after that incredibly dumb move bites you in the ass.

Yeah if you were not that bothered either way but voted conservative even though remain edged it for you in the referendum then I can see how that works logically but to be so adamantly against leaving and vote Tory takes some pretty special thinking.
 
Go on then....

Convince me how the EU creates wealth in the same way that its individual members do.

It doesn't - it simply redistributes the membership fees....Some countries win, others lose out.

I remember a few months ago making you a personal offer that I thought you wouldn't be able to resist as it was based exactly on the EU's very own 'collect and spend' money carousel which you appear to think is so wonderful.

Strangely, you declined.
No. No no no no no no no.

The EU, the Single Market, and the Customs Union, lower the fees we all pay when purchasing goods.

With 28 sets of regulations, a TV manufacturer has a large cost to do business in Europe; they've got to comply with each set of rules and may have to find different materials to use depending on the country. Or maybe a car manufacturer would have to create 28 (or 32) different versions of their car to comply with 28 (or 32) different standards.

That adds cost. By setting the same requirement across the board, those costs are removed (or at least, reduced greatly)

When shipping goods, running into customs adds a fair amount of cost, both to the shipping companies and to the governments running them. I'm not even talking about import and export duties here, I'm talking about the physical costs of goods being checked (even electronically) and the hours wasted talking to manufacturers, and hauliers, and customs agents, and HMRC. etc. It probably isn't an understatement to say that customs costs at least £500 per load of goods. Now if the average sales cost of those goods is £50,000 that obviously isn't breaking the bank (adding only 1% to the total cost), but a cost it is.

Now let's have a look at what happens when you increase cost to no gain.

Increasing costs puts pressure on businesses. These businesses pass these costs onto the consumers, who are then poorer. The consumers will then purchase less of the product, which will again put pressure onto businesses. Some companies who operate on slim margins simply won't be able to continue, which will result in job-losses and further economic downturn.

So let's reverse that.

Reduced costs relieves pressure on businesses. A greater margin for profits allows new businesses to be created and new investment to come in. Jobs and opportunities will be created which in turn will make people richer, and continue the upward trend.

To take things to extremes; no one would import goods from abroad if it cost £1m per item to do so. No one could afford to buy an iPhone if a Lion battery cost £100k. People will have less money to spend if the government pointless charges them lots of tax.

So yes, the EU creates wealth. The single market creates wealth. The Customs Union creates wealth.
 
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Now obviously there are downsides to the EU too.

Cheap Eastern European labour puts a downward trend on wages of people in Western Europe. That makes more money for big business in the short term, but takes jobs and money away from consumers, which also hurts the big business.

EU regulations that are over zealously applied without thought cause problems (fish being thrown back, diesel cars being purchased, maybe even cladding being put on buildings)

It adds another layer of government to pay for

I'm not going to including manufacturing being moved to Eastern Europe... because I don't think that happens that much. Eastern Europe probably isn't cheap enough to really compete with China.
 
I'd go further even than this. What type of a person voted Tory (or would have if given the opportunity to vote) to enable the referendum while believing that leaving the EU would be an unprecedented disaster and then claims during the referendum that leaving is too big a risk to run?

It strikes me a pretty obvious that if you feel so strongly that there is a huge risk you don't start the whole thing rolling by voting for the referendum party.

It also makes you a massive hypocrite to then start calling those who voted leave stupid after that incredibly dumb move bites you in the ass.

Yeah if you were not that bothered either way but voted conservative even though remain edged it for you in the referendum then I can see how that works logically but to be so adamantly against leaving and vote Tory takes some pretty special thinking.

I geniunely struggle to understand why the Tories are constantly being voted in. Their hero is Maggie Thatcher the person responsible of sending half the UK into poverty. They are the people who made tertiary education among the most expensive in Europe. They constantly mismanage the NHS and they only seem to care about those who are filthy rich and the old. Never had been a party in Europe who personificates Mr Burns (Simpsons) better then the Tories

Some might say that the left is too left for their taste (and I agree especially with JC in command). But for christ sake there are other parties that can be voted in.
 
No. No no no no no no no.

The EU, the Single Market, and the Customs Union, lower the fees we all pay when purchasing goods.

With 28 sets of regulations, a TV Manufacture has a large cost to do business in Europe; they've got to comply with each set of rules and may have to find different materials to use depending on the country. Or maybe a car manufacturer would have to create 28 (or 32) different versions of their car to comply with 28 (or 32) different standards.

That adds cost. By setting the same requirement across the board, those costs are removed.

When shipping goods, running into customs adds a fair amount of cost, both to the shipping companies and to the governments running them. I'm not even talking about import and export duties here, I'm talking about the physical costs of goods being checked (even electronically) and the hours wasted talking to manufacturers, and hauliers, and customs agents, and HMRC. etc. It probably isn't an understatement to say that customs costs at least £500 per load of goods. Now if the average sales cost of those goods is £50,000 that obviously isn't breaking the bank (adding only 1% to the total cost), but a cost it is.

Now let's have a look at what happens when you increase cost to no gain.

Increasing costs puts pressure on businesses. These businesses pass these costs onto the consumers, who are then poorer. The consumers will then purchase less of the product, which will again put pressure onto businesses. Some companies who operate on slim margins simply won't be able to continue, which will result in job-losses and further economic downturn.

So let's reverse that.

Reduced costs relieves pressure on businesses. A greater margin for profits allows new businesses to be created and new investment to come in. Jobs and opportunities will be created which in turn will make people richer, and continue the upward trend.

To take things to extremes; no one would import goods from abroad if it cost £1m per item to do so. No one could afford to buy an iPhone if a Lion battery cost £100k. People will have less money to spend if the government pointless charges them lots of tax.

So yes, the EU creates wealth. The single market creates wealth. The Customs Union creates wealth.


Agree with some of what you say, and disagree with the rest because everything you say could be achieved without the EU and, instead, a straightforward Trading Bloc that doesn't need its own Parliament, its own defence force, its own Courts of Law and Judiciary, its own Foreign Ambassadors, etc, etc, etc.

But guess what....It's your lucky day....Wibble's place on my Wealth Creation Club is still vacant....You want to join instead of him ?
 
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Agree with some of what you say, and disagree with the rest because everything you say could be achieved without the EU and, instead, a straightforward Trading Bloc that doesn't need its own Parliament, its own defence force, its own Courts of Law and Judiciary, its own Foreign Ambasadors, etc, etc, etc.

But guess what....It's your lucky day....Wibble's place on my Wealth Creation Club is still vacant....You want to join instead of him ?
Indeed, and that's the crux really. The leavers see the EU as a big waste (because it is). The remainers see the EU as saving them money and creating wealth (because it does). In the end, both of those things are true.

The EU needed reforming, but I can't comprehend how we are going to save more than we lose with Brexit. It's not going to happen. Reform had to happen from the inside.
 
Bad analogy time
10 people live in a house. The first earns £1500, the second £1600, the third £1700, etc.

The landlord charges £1000, leaving the first with £500 to live on. The richest amongst them has £1400 left over, and he often buys everyone in the house gifts.

The landlord puts the rent up to £1100. The person earning only £1500 can no longer afford to live there, and moves out. The person earning £2400 is a bit poorer and buys everyone remaining less presents. The landlord actually takes less rent, as the man earning £1000 can no longer live there; the total rent is reduced from £10000 to £9900.

So the landlord changes his mind, and reduces his rent to £900. The man earning £1500 moves back in along with his friend earning £1400. At the end of that new month, the landlord takes in £9900 again and is a bit annoyed his cunning plan hasn't earnt him more money, but everyone else is richer, and everyone gets gifts