Mmm, every time someone from the government opens their mouth, there appears to be only one direction
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- Thread starter Silva
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Mmm, every time someone from the government opens their mouth, there appears to be only one direction
OK most EU countries don't DEPEND (am I doing this right?) on the UK, and vice versa. At the end of the day trade makes sense for both parties, we have stuff to sell to them and they do to us.
Bigger font would help for clarity of emphasis.Your second sentence is a bit ambiguous. There won't be any embargo, no agreements only means that their will be no discounts, it doesn't mean that their will be no trades.
Exactly
IS THIS BETTER?
Getting there!Not vice versa.
It's been good to see some stronger language being linked with the Government these past few days.
Indeed they do, just look at that the Euro.
Indeed they do, just look at that the Euro.
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Cheers for the reply.
Hopefully your right, my worry is with the British Government are simply ignoring the issue for the sake of convenience.
Well the UK does depend on the EU. 44% of its exports and 13% of its gdp depend on the single market. No country had ever been able to cut off completely from the continent its in and do well, so this will be a first. No wonder cautious Hammond had gone full threat mood about turning the UK into a tax haven (is it that even possible considering that the money generated would never be enough to pay the taxes the UK need to function?). They are desperate for access to the single market
The EU does not depend on the UK. Sure losing the UK would be a hit for them but they rather suffer that then create a precedent were countries can leave the union because they didn't like something and still get the good deal they wanted (ie cherry picking).
Leavers like to mention the imminent trade deal with the US which I admit it will give them a lifeline. However I can understand May's concerns about not wanting to be associated with Trump very much. The guy is a sensitive vindictive chap who takes family to court and cuts them out of medical insurance. He also tend to employ small contractors only to pay them a quarter of the agreed price, knowing that they can never go toe to toe against him in court. He is anti EU for the very same reason (ie he wants a fragmented Europe which can be easily bullied). Its difficult to believe that such a man whose also a protectionist can ever give a fair a deal to the UK and if he does he'll expect the UK to stay in line. That's something the UK wouldn't want especially since it want to make deals with other countries (China for example) who aren't exactly pro US.
No wonder why May is going in great pains that Brexit who puts populist anti immigration sentiment ahead of business and friendship with foreign countries is completely different to the populist wave that saw Trump being elected as US president.
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Trump calling Brexit a great thing should convince everyone that it was a stupid idea.
And you can see what the markets think of the government's language..
Looking at the Euro, it's gained 6 cents against the pound in the last 4 weeks
It is a great thing for him, a slightly weaker EU and an extremely weakened UK
Excellent
Putin wants the disintegration of the EU and NATO. Of course Ttrump thinks it's a good idea
http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-to-announce-hard-brexit-plans-in-major-speech-2017-1
Hard Brexit on the way, as expected. The UK will pay tariffs on it's exports to the EU, but these will also cost less due to the fall in the pound. EU exports to the UK will face two cost problems, the tariffs plus the risen Euro.
It's the best negotiating stance for me, no begging for terms, no bargaining over free movement because it isn't going to happen. If the EU wants to propose anything mutually beneficial then fair enough, if not, fair enough, whatever is agreed we will all pay the same tariffs.
Now we can all debate the effects of tariffs and devaluations, but the soft brexit permutations and the free movement stuff should be irrelevant now. Shouldn't they?
Hard Brexit on the way, as expected. The UK will pay tariffs on it's exports to the EU, but these will also cost less due to the fall in the pound. EU exports to the UK will face two cost problems, the tariffs plus the risen Euro.
It's the best negotiating stance for me, no begging for terms, no bargaining over free movement because it isn't going to happen. If the EU wants to propose anything mutually beneficial then fair enough, if not, fair enough, whatever is agreed we will all pay the same tariffs.
Now we can all debate the effects of tariffs and devaluations, but the soft brexit permutations and the free movement stuff should be irrelevant now. Shouldn't they?
I swear to god, if you clowns gimp the NI border on us.....
As expected, not a brexit for everyone as she said, without even taking into account devaluations of the pound the increase in nett tariffs would mean they would not save anything by not paying into the EU, the tariffs would make up for that instead of being paid by taxes ie on those who pay who actually pay tax, it will be paid by the consumers, ie everybody by increased prices
I don't think people grasp how much of a complete crisis this will be. So we fall back on WTO schedules which are currently set through our EU membership rather than independently. We will lose free trade with the EU whilst having to adopt tariffs that make sense for the EU as a whole but not for the UK as an independent country. We are going to see country of origin customs checks on all EU exports. Tariffs on not just finished goods, but all imported parts. e.g a car manufacturer will pay tariffs on it's finished cars exported to EU but also on all of the parts it imports from across Europe to assemble that car. But it's ok because the government is going to guarantee those costs at the expense of the taxpayer, whilst not funding public services, in particularly health, sufficiently. fecking hell.
The next 5 years will see the breakdown of the post-war social contract.
Seems pretty inevitable now. Can't see how she can be in all for stopping immigration and yet still leave a wide open border to the EU with no controls.
If she thinks this would unite Remainers and Leavers she must be totally deluded. Only that everyone will be worse off and only the anti-immigration lobby would have got what they want.
Have the feeling she's determined to lose the Passporting Rights of the City as well.
Have the feeling she's determined to lose the Passporting Rights of the City as well.
Seems pretty inevitable now. Can't see how she can be in all for stopping immigration and yet still leave a wide open border to the EU with no controls.
Logically, not really. Visa abuse could just as easily come via overstaying tourists*, and Ireland isn't in Shengen so refugees cannot travel visa free. But she will have a political challenge from the right-wing tabloids who will turn that open border into an immigration issue and she doesn't have the backbone to stand up to the right-wing nut jobs
* Like Trump's wall. Will do literally nothing to curb illegal immigration.
I feel the City is still in the bargaining/denial stages of grief. She has been pretty clear, no EEA, no single market, no ECJ all of which means no passporting and no viable equivalence
Quite, this would be the biggest disaster of all.
My housemate who supported leave but did not vote is now complaining prices of food stuffs are going up. I try to explain it's the currency but it's like expecting sense from Mayhem's government.
Barring any last minute miracles (like her actually giving a completely different speech tomorrow) it appears the take away message from the last week is simply 'We're all pretty fecked'.
CBI warns of 'disorderly crash landing' if no negotiated settlement is reached.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ash-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Pages_Manager
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ash-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Pages_Manager
The sad thing is that there are legit criticism points regarding the EU which were (at least at the beginning) also part of the Leave campaign. However, as I and others repeatedly pointed out, the campagne and now the aftermath became nearly exclusively about "We can do it on our own. No need for those greedy EU bureaucrats" and "Stop immigration!".
Now with all those commitments to a hard brexit we'll see a massive pandering to big corporations and the tories turning the UK into a tax heaven so that they can claim Brexit didn't hurt economically. All while happily pushing welfare and benefit cuts. In the end it'll hurt the average citizen but strengthen the Amazons etc. of this world.
Now with all those commitments to a hard brexit we'll see a massive pandering to big corporations and the tories turning the UK into a tax heaven so that they can claim Brexit didn't hurt economically. All while happily pushing welfare and benefit cuts. In the end it'll hurt the average citizen but strengthen the Amazons etc. of this world.
Yup. Turkeys voted for Christmas. Uncanny the similarities between the US election and Brexit. And that's without all the thumbs up photos of assorted grinning cnuts to remind us.
Quote from Gove:
"My understanding - I have to stress I’m no expert in trade negotiations - is that we have to wait until Britain has concluded its divorce from the European Union before we can sign any new deal."
The first part is pretty obvious.
Not only can you not sign a deal until it has completely left the EU, you cannot even start official negotiations until they've left either so a signature ready deal by 2019 is even beyond the realm of fairyland dreamt up by the Leavers
"My understanding - I have to stress I’m no expert in trade negotiations - is that we have to wait until Britain has concluded its divorce from the European Union before we can sign any new deal."
The first part is pretty obvious.
Not only can you not sign a deal until it has completely left the EU, you cannot even start official negotiations until they've left either so a signature ready deal by 2019 is even beyond the realm of fairyland dreamt up by the Leavers
I've always said, modesty is his only fault.
It's weird that people still don't understand that when Murdoch is one side, all the peasants that we are should run on the other side.
A stipulation likely to be more honoured in the breach than the observance.
When push come to shove Britain won't allow itself to be strangled by the rules of a club whose membership it's about to cancel.
Negotiations might be labelled 'exploratory' for face-saving purposes, but I'd be surprised if there isn't a deal in place by the time the clock strikes 12.
Even the British government has admitted the same, in any case deals take years and if they don't there would only be one winner
They won't openly acknowledge breaking the rules. They'll simply break them.
It's the EU way.
Funny how people are always complaining about how the EU impose so many terrible rules on us, yet at the same time seem to believe everyone in the EU (apart from us Brits obviously) just break or ignore anything they don't like.
The cognitive dissonance is remarkable..
They'd have serious problems, why is it the EU way, thought there were too many rules , UK get a reputation of breaking agreements, they won't get any
They have no-one to negotiate deals, their negotiators work for the EU and have no experience working as a sole nation.
Trump would have them over a barrel.
Remember all the Leavers were against the TTIP before the Referendum
If Leavers are banking on this, then ....
Remember Gove has no idea what he's talking about.
People obey rules when they believe maintaining the relationships in which the rules are embedded is more important than any gain to be made from disobeying them. That doesn't apply here. This is an existential crisis for Britain, and it's not going to go naked into that good night just to preserve a reputation for keeping its bargains.
Ah so you're now admitting you've dropped us into an existential crisis? Glad one of you has come clean about that.