Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Frosty]

The ONE THING we need to keep after Brexit…is our unelected bureaucrats who get to change our laws!!!

Good to see the Speaker abiding by the impartial nature of the office.

Nothing to do with the fact that he would get a seat in the Lords when he steps down? Absolutely nothing to do with the fact his dad is also a member of the House of Lords? Surely not.

 

[Frosty]

Brexit is more than crap, it’s a shit show. It’s a real life example of how effective propaganda and media brainwashing really is.

I haven’t followed the Labour Party or Starmer since I was last back in the UK but if the alternative is the Tories there’s only ever one clear winner for me.

Imagine a flatulent dog that is scared of the sound of its own farts. Worse than that.

 

[FireballXL5]

Jacob Rees-Mogg would have you believe all these companies are lying...

Three-quarters of UK firms say Brexit deal has not boosted business

British Chamber of Commerce present government with urgent recommendations as members report struggling to sell into EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/21/brexit-deal-not-boosted-business-uk-firms

 

[Buster15]

Jacob Rees-Mogg would have you believe all these companies are lying...

Three-quarters of UK firms say Brexit deal has not boosted business

British Chamber of Commerce present government with urgent recommendations as members report struggling to sell into EU

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/21/brexit-deal-not-boosted-business-uk-firms

Wonder how many of them actually voted to leave the EU.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Neither the LibDems nor Labour have any clue either.

It's not about making Brexit work or having a better TCA deal.

It's Brexit, you've left the EU. The SM and CU are the problem. The UK has the best trade agreement with the EU of any other country.

 

[Buster15]

Neither the LibDems nor Labour have any clue either.

It's not about making Brexit work or having a better TCA deal.

It's Brexit, you've left the EU. The SM and CU are the problem. The UK has the best trade agreement with the EU of any other country.

https://news.sky.com/story/business...er-improving-trade-with-eu-bcc-warns-12772910

The penny has started to drop.
This is what we have as a result of leaving the EU.
Project Fear was correct and should have been listened too.
Get Brexit Done. Well we have been well and truly done by the mindless hoards who thought they could have their cake and eat it.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

The people who voted for this should be made to suffer. Not drag the rest of us down with them. Absolute cnuts the lot of them!

 

[CassiusClaymore]

The people who voted for this should be made to suffer. Not drag the rest of us down with them. Absolute cnuts the lot of them!

You won't find any arguments here but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

You won't find any arguments here but unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Yep, unfortunately we all have to carry the can for all the planks that mindlessly voted for this shite. A lot of them doing so purely because of their bigoted agenda against immigrants.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

https://news.sky.com/story/business...er-improving-trade-with-eu-bcc-warns-12772910

The penny has started to drop.
This is what we have as a result of leaving the EU.
Project Fear was correct and should have been listened too.
Get Brexit Done. Well we have been well and truly done by the mindless hoards who thought they could have their cake and eat it.

In the article you posted, you have the BCC still not understanding what the real problems are - they should do. Wittering on about a Norway deal. UK accepting four freedoms are they? and still not solving the documentation/customs problem.

It's so frustrating.
Maybe the penny is starting to drop that Brexit was a huge error but they're still not really understanding why. Especially people who should be understanding why.

 

[Mart1974]

I am going to call-out Labour here. WTF is going on with them? You can tell the electorate wants to speak about this issue but our two parties pretend like nothing is happening.

Labour are scared of talking about it, they lost heavily in 2019 by standing against Brexit. Starmer has stated he will work with the EU to improve the relationship but I am not sure any details have emerged.

 

[Maticmaker]

Labour are scared of talking about it, they lost heavily in 2019 by standing against Brexit. Starmer has stated he will work with the EU to improve the relationship but I am not sure any details have emerged.

This will be the moment of truth for Starmer.
So far, after what appears to be Sir Keirs 'road to Damascus'-type conversion on Brexit, he is 'playing out the rope' on telling us just what he will do to improve things... but of course eventually he will have to tell us.

Whats the betting that he will offer/will not offer, to hold what would amount to an effective second referendum?
Of course it wont be presented as a positive offer, unless and until he gets a green light from the EU that they will play ball. If the EU say 'on yer bike Starmer'...it will be ... well what will it be?

 

[Pexbo]

Labour are scared of talking about it, they lost heavily in 2019 by standing against Brexit. Starmer has stated he will work with the EU to improve the relationship but I am not sure any details have emerged.

I heard a member of the shadow cabinet a few months ago on the radio admit she has been in contact with her French counterpart for the last 6 months or so after they opened dialogue and said that is the case for most of the shadow cabinet as they are viewed as government in waiting.

 

[Mart1974]

I heard a member of the shadow cabinet a few months ago on the radio admit she has been in contact with her French counterpart for the last 6 months or so after they opened dialogue and said that is the case for most of the shadow cabinet as they are viewed as government in waiting.

Yeah, I get the feeling the Tories are trying to salt the fields and put oats in the water to make life difficult fir the next government.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

This will be the moment of truth for Starmer.
So far, after what appears to be Sir Keirs 'road to Damascus'-type conversion on Brexit, he is 'playing out the rope' on telling us just what he will do to improve things... but of course eventually he will have to tell us.

Whats the betting that he will offer/will not offer, to hold what would amount to an effective second referendum?
Of course it wont be presented as a positive offer, unless and until he gets a green light from the EU that they will play ball. If the EU say 'on yer bike Starmer'...it will be ... well what will it be?

I don't quite get what the EU are supposed to play ball on. I know Starmer's got his EU take away menu in front of him. He wants three number 43s - vets , two number 39s - no customs checks and one number 85 - exactly the same benefits outside the EU as inside - but back in the real world.....

 

[Maticmaker]

I don't quite get what the EU are supposed to play ball on. I know Starmer's got his EU take away menu in front of him. He wants three number 43s - vets , two number 39s - no customs checks and one number 85 - exactly the same benefits outside the EU as inside - but back in the real world.....

I don't think even Starmer believes this, but he has hinted in the past about a 'deal' with the EU, just as Norway and Switzerland have 'deals'... he will want a 'UK deal'. However even assuming the EU considers this idea, he will need something to sell to the public prior to a GE, so that Labour have a clear stance in the minds of the UK Electorate, no 'fence sitting' this time!

There are certain advantages for him in trying for 'a deal' (as well as the obvious pitfalls) especially in NI (GFA and border issues) and also in Scotland where the Nationalists made great play out of being 'leveraged out' of the EU with out their agreement.
Labour doesn't really have a dog in the race in NI (probably wont want one either), but have to keep the present US Administration sweet on GFA. In Scotland some seats gained from the SNP would increase any expected Labour majority at Westminster in the next GE.

Will the EU 'play ball' on a new UK deal along the lines that Starmer is likely to suggest, if they signal they will, then Starmer can set about convincing the UK electorate, that going forward things will look better if he can swing it with Brussels?

 

[Infra-red]

Neither the LibDems nor Labour have any clue either.

It's not about making Brexit work or having a better TCA deal.

It's Brexit, you've left the EU. The SM and CU are the problem. The UK has the best trade agreement with the EU of any other country.

https://news.sky.com/story/business...er-improving-trade-with-eu-bcc-warns-12772910

The penny has started to drop.
This is what we have as a result of leaving the EU.
Project Fear was correct and should have been listened too.
Get Brexit Done. Well we have been well and truly done by the mindless hoards who thought they could have their cake and eat it.

Was speaking to a staunch Brexiteer (and, unfortunately, close family member) about this the other day. He was bemoaning the lack of positive press coverage about the "benefits" of Brexit now that we're out. "We're being made to look like we made the wrong decision", he cried. No shit, Sherlock.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

I don't think even Starmer believes this, but he has hinted in the past about a 'deal' with the EU, just as Norway and Switzerland have 'deals'... he will want a 'UK deal'. However even assuming the EU considers this idea, he will need something to sell to the public prior to a GE, so that Labour have a clear stance in the minds of the UK Electorate, no 'fence sitting' this time!

There are certain advantages for him in trying for 'a deal' (as well as the obvious pitfalls) especially in NI (GFA and border issues) and also in Scotland where the Nationalists made great play out of being 'leveraged out' of the EU with out their agreement.
Labour doesn't really have a dog in the race in NI (probably wont want want either), but have to keep the present US Administration sweet on GFA. In Scotland some seats gained from the SNP would increase any expected Labour majority at Westminster in the next GE.

Will the EU 'play ball' on a new UK deal along the lines that Starmer is likely to suggest, if they signal they will, then Starmer can set about convincing the UK electorate, that going forward things will look better if he can swing it with Brussels?

But there is no new deal on offer. This is what infuriates me more than anything. There could be very minor tweaks where the UK could be trusted to abide by certain things that have been agreed. (eg the NI protocol - another red herring from the DUP and the Tories which Starmer has bought into) Or if they pay some more money to the EU they could be involved in one of the schemes such as research.

What doesn't seem to have occurred to the UK is that they have left but they still expect the same benefits.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Was speaking to a staunch Brexiteer (and, unfortunately, close family member) about this the other day. He was bemoaning the lack of positive press coverage about the "benefits" of Brexit now that we're out. "We're being made to look like we made the wrong decision", he cried. No shit, Sherlock.

Did he list what the benefits of Brexit were?

 

[Infra-red]

Did he list what the benefits of Brexit were?

I asked the question and did my best not to sound sarcastic. All you get is the same tired old drivel that was spouted during the campaign. Ultimately, Brexiteers need to understand and accept that whatever the 'benefits' might be, Brexit has a net negative result on the UK's economic outlook. There is a cost and we're all going to have to pay it.

 

[Maticmaker]

But there is no new deal on offer. This is what infuriates me more than anything. There could be very minor tweaks where the UK could be trusted to abide by certain things that have been agreed. (eg the NI protocol - another red herring from the DUP and the Tories which Starmer has bought into) Or if they pay some more money to the EU they could be involved in one of the schemes such as research.

What doesn't seem to have occurred to the UK is that they have left but they still expect the same benefits.

No, there isn't, the initiative (cap in hand if you prefer) will have to come from the UK, but the turmoil of actual leaving/separating/breaking up etc. is now past. Brexit (oven ready or not) is now a fact of life, for both the UK and the EU.
The UK is beginning to realise some of the consequences, that divorce is never easy, and they lost out because of false ideas of ownership and on the so called favourable outcomes deemed possible by many in the UK in terms of major settlements... but going forward much is still muddied by the effects of Covid and the continuing conflict in Ukraine.

Starmer (I suspect) is going to try to adopt a "that was then, this is now" approach with the EU. He knows the EU will not compromise on basic issues, but believes 'affiliate' type agreements can be reached, which he can sell to the UK, post Brexit

 

[Paul the Wolf]

No, there isn't, the initiative (cap in hand if you prefer) will have to come from the UK, but the turmoil of actual leaving/separating/breaking up etc. is now past. Brexit (oven ready or not) is now a fact of life, for both the UK and the EU.
The UK is beginning to realise some of the consequences, that divorce is never easy, and they lost out because of false ideas of ownership and on the so called favourable outcomes deemed possible by many in the UK in terms of major settlements... but going forward much is still muddied by the effects of Covid and the continuing conflict in Ukraine.

Starmer (I suspect) is going to try to adopt a "that was then, this is now" approach with the EU. He knows the EU will not compromise on basic issues, but believes 'affiliate' type agreements can be reached, which he can sell to the UK, post Brexit

But nothing has changed or will ever change. Six years ago or now or in six years time. It's what I was saying - the takeaway menu approach which Starmer has been saying ever since I came across him. The EU have got over the UK leaving. It's finished - the UK are now a third country, like all the other countries who are not in the EU or EEA. They have to deal with it. The EU are getting on with their lives.

The only point where the UK have tried to prolong the difficulties is the NI protocol. There is no major problem there, very easily solvable but the UK government/DUP or even Starmer don't want it solved.

The only thing to sell to the UK public is whether the UK try and get back closer to the EU as quickly as possible so that in future it will be easier to rejoin.

Starmer doesn't want to rejoin.

 

[Buster15]

Was speaking to a staunch Brexiteer (and, unfortunately, close family member) about this the other day. He was bemoaning the lack of positive press coverage about the "benefits" of Brexit now that we're out. "We're being made to look like we made the wrong decision", he cried. No shit, Sherlock.

For your party trick, ask him what are the positive benefits. And wait for the stunned silence.

 

[Buster15]

I asked the question and did my best not to sound sarcastic. All you get is the same tired old drivel that was spouted during the campaign. Ultimately, Brexiteers need to understand and accept that whatever the 'benefits' might be, Brexit has a net negative result on the UK's economic outlook. There is a cost and we're all going to have to pay it.

Well as far as I am concerned there are no 'benefits' and never have been.
But I would love someone to tell me I am wrong and then tell me what they are.

 

[JPRouve]

Well as far as I am concerned there are no 'benefits' and never have been.
But I would love someone to tell me I am wrong and then tell me what they are.

The rest of the EU doesn't have to worry about the UK trying to get something that they already have and blackmailing their way into getting nothing new.

 

[Maticmaker]

But nothing has changed or will ever change. Six years ago or now or in six years time. It's what I was saying - the takeaway menu approach which Starmer has been saying ever since I came across him. The EU have got over the UK leaving. It's finished - the UK are now a third country, like all the other countries who are not in the EU or EEA. They have to deal with it. The EU are getting on with their lives.

The only point where the UK have tried to prolong the difficulties is the NI protocol. There is no major problem there, very easily solvable but the UK government/DUP or even Starmer don't want it solved.

The only thing to sell to the UK public is whether the UK try and get back closer to the EU as quickly as possible so that in future it will be easier to rejoin.

Starmer doesn't want to rejoin.

Sorry, Paul I don't accept that premise, change is inevitable, its the way things are, sometimes for good sometimes for bad, but to say 'or will ever change' is not rationale.
"Events... dear boy" was the famous response from one PM when asked why things had changed. Even those who will eventually benefit from 'change' often ignore or oppose it initially, it is in the way of things.

Starmer never wanted to leave, but I agree he won't seek to rejoin, but he will seek 'a deal' or allow himself to be seen to seek 'a deal', that moves forward from where we are now, not where we were at the time of Brexit.

Now the UK is on the outside all sorts of 'deals are possible, short of rejoining, which its unlikely the EU would agree, even if the UK decided it did want to apply.

This approach could, however it turns out eventually, be Starmers 'ace in the hole' in terms of getting Labour re-elected in two years time.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Sorry, Paul I don't accept that premise, change is inevitable, its the way things are, sometimes for good sometimes for bad, but to say 'or will ever change' is not rationale.
"Events... dear boy" was the famous response from one PM when asked why things had changed. Even those who will eventually benefit from 'change' often ignore or oppose it initially, it is in the way of things.

Starmer never wanted to leave, but I agree he won't seek to rejoin, but he will seek 'a deal' or allow himself to be seen to seek 'a deal', that moves forward from where we are now, not where we were at the time of Brexit.

Now the UK is on the outside all sorts of 'deals are possible, short of rejoining, which its unlikely the EU would agree, even if the UK decided it did want to apply.

This approach could, however it turns out eventually, be Starmers 'ace in the hole' in terms of getting Labour re-elected in two years time.

Nothing persuaded me that Starmer wanted to remain but that's another debate.

This is exactly what I mean. There are very minor things that can be improved. But there is no Swiss Norwegian, Icelandic, Faeroe island deal available.
I can see this floating around the British media. There are Labour supporters who think that there is a deal that Starmer may do, he's just pretending so he can get elected and then suddenly turn around and say actually I've done a deal with the EU not to have to comply with EU regulations but we can still have lots of benefits without paying, without accepting the four freedoms, including freedom of movement, without having to have all this paperwork, all these checks.

It's all just fantasy stirred up by different sections of the British media and some even coming from the government itself (the non-existent Swiss deal)

It's mirroring all the fantasy rubbish everyone had to put up with between 2016 and when Brexit got "done" at the end of 2019.

Either the UK is in the EU or it is not. There is no menu. They are now a third country like any other third country and who has a trading agreement;.Terms of the trading agreement will be discussed again I think in 2026 but that might change a little on the tariffs or non-tariff quotas but that's it.

In the meantime EU businesses will be dealing less and less with the UK because it's too much hassle and costly. That's because they are a third country , there's no way around that.

 

[ThehatchetMan]

The only point where the UK have tried to prolong the difficulties is the NI protocol. There is no major problem there, very easily solvable but the UK government/DUP or even Starmer don't want it solved.

This is the DUP prolonging these difficulties. Which is outrageous as NI from a trade perspective actually have a few benefits with the current protocol.

The tories ain't doing anything about it because the DUP is the only party in NI which support them in the commons. And we all know about their supply and confidence deal they struck in 2018 too.

The assembly in NI needs reform and we should also have had another GE by now too given the collapse of the assembly but the tories are doing Jack shit about it.

The only thing they've done is reduce the wages of all MLAs by 25% a few weeks ago which is daft in itself. All of our MLAs want to work and aside from the DUP no-one else really cares about the protocol and actually see the unique benefits we have in NI in having access to both markets which could favour our economy.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

This is the DUP prolonging these difficulties. Which is outrageous as NI from a trade perspective actually have a few benefits with the current protocol.

The tories ain't doing anything about it because the DUP is the only party in NI which support them in the commons. And we all know about their supply and confidence deal they struck in 2018 too.

The assembly in NI needs reform and we should also have had another GE by now too given the collapse of the assembly but the tories are doing Jack shit about it.

The only thing they've done is reduce the wages of all MLAs by 25% a few weeks ago which is daft in itself. All of our MLAs want to work and aside from the DUP no-one else really cares about the protocol and actually see the unique benefits we have in NI in having access to both markets which could favour our economy.

Agree completely.

 

[Maticmaker]

Nothing persuaded me that Starmer wanted to remain but that's another debate.

This is exactly what I mean. There are very minor things that can be improved. But there is no Swiss Norwegian, Icelandic, Faeroe island deal available.
I can see this floating around the British media. There are Labour supporters who think that there is a deal that Starmer may do, he's just pretending so he can get elected and then suddenly turn around and say actually I've done a deal with the EU not to have to comply with EU regulations but we can still have lots of benefits without paying, without accepting the four freedoms, including freedom of movement, without having to have all this paperwork, all these checks.

It's all just fantasy stirred up by different sections of the British media and some even coming from the government itself (the non-existent Swiss deal)

It's mirroring all the fantasy rubbish everyone had to put up with between 2016 and when Brexit got "done" at the end of 2019.

Either the UK is in the EU or it is not. There is no menu. They are now a third country like any other third country and who has a trading agreement;.Terms of the trading agreement will be discussed again I think in 2026 but that might change a little on the tariffs or non-tariff quotas but that's it.

In the meantime EU businesses will be dealing less and less with the UK because it's too much hassle and costly. That's because they are a third country , there's no way around that.

Why, now the UK is outside the EU, can there not be a deal like the ones you mentioned, that is specific to the UK?
As you say the UK is definitely out of the EU, but Starmer can still seek a 'UK deal' which will of course require aspects rejected under the Brexit banner, now being accepted by the UK via a new Labour Government.
That will be Starmer's offer of an 'Olive Branch', tied in no doubt with the co-operation required as both the UK and the EU will continue to support Ukraine, that will emerge as time moves on.

As the Brexit smoke clears and the political guns fall silent, Starmer (assuming he becomes PM) will need to try to find something to mark him out as a leading statesman/player, a 'UK deal' with the EU could be just the ticket!

*The 'clusterfeck' that was Brexit was because the politics got mixed up with the trade issues, most Brexiteers voted on the politics, most Remainers on Trade

 

[JPRouve]

Why, now the UK is outside the EU, can there not be a deal like the ones you mentioned, that is specific to the UK?
As you say the UK is definitely out of the EU, but Starmer can still seek a 'UK deal' which will of course require aspects rejected under the Brexit banner, now being accepted by the UK via a new Labour Government.
That will be Starmer's offer of an 'Olive Branch', tied in no doubt with the co-operation required as both the UK and the EU will continue to support Ukraine, that will emerge as time moves on.

As the Brexit smoke clears and the political guns fall silent, Starmer (assuming he becomes PM) will need to try to find something to mark him out as a leading statesman/player, a 'UK deal' with the EU could be just the ticket!

*The 'clusterfeck' that was Brexit was because the politics got mixed up with the trade issues, most Brexiteers voted on the politics, most Remainers on Trade

There is a deal that is currently specific to the UK. The issue that seems to be neglected is that what the UK want are similar conditions to the one they had when they were in the EU which is not possible. The other issue is why would the EU entertain the idea of recreating trade uncertainties when they are perfectly fine with the current conditions? Why would the EU get back into tedious and complicated negotiations?

 

[Maticmaker]

There is a deal that is currently specific to the UK. The issue that seems to be neglected is that what the UK want are similar conditions to the one they had when they were in the EU which is not possible. The other issue is why would the EU entertain the idea of recreating trade uncertainties when they are perfectly fine with the current conditions? Why would the EU get back into tedious and complicated negotiations?

You would have to ask Keir Starmer, he seems to think they will.

Starmer may well be proved right over time, as mentioned earlier in a response to @Paul the Wolf the co-operation between the EU and the UK and indeed the US, will be something that 'shifts the ground' on a number of issues, all three will need to be in 'lock-step' on Ukraine, otherwise Putin (and or China) will exploit any differences.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Why, now the UK is outside the EU, can there not be a deal like the ones you mentioned, that is specific to the UK?
As you say the UK is definitely out of the EU, but Starmer can still seek a 'UK deal' which will of course require aspects rejected under the Brexit banner, now being accepted by the UK via a new Labour Government.
That will be Starmer's offer of an 'Olive Branch', tied in no doubt with the co-operation required as both the UK and the EU will continue to support Ukraine, that will emerge as time moves on.

As the Brexit smoke clears and the political guns fall silent, Starmer (assuming he becomes PM) will need to try to find something to mark him out as a leading statesman/player, a 'UK deal' with the EU could be just the ticket!

*The 'clusterfeck' that was Brexit was because the politics got mixed up with the trade issues, most Brexiteers voted on the politics, most Remainers on Trade

The Swiss deal is a series of bilateral deals that neither Switzerland nor the EU want to go into again. They abanondoned new discussions not long ago. They are not in the CU so that means all the documentation problems (which is the biggest problem the UK has) is not solved.

Norway/Iceland is the acceptance of all the EU terms, four freedoms, freedom of movement etc. The only differences are that they are not in the Customs Union so can make their own trade deals but the problems of documentation/customs checks still exist. And they have no vote.

This works for them because they are much smaller countries plus they would not accept the UK into the EEA.

All of this was gone through between 2016 and 2019 earlier in the thread; six years later we're still having the same discussions and pointing out why it's not feasible or possible.

There is no UK deal available. If they are in the single market they have to accept the four freedoms, everybody does. if they are in the customs union they cannot have their own trade deals.

The British media and morons like Farage have a lot to answer for. There will some justice if and when Farage is tried for treason. Amazingly they're talking about him leading the Reform Party. Surely he's done enough damage to the UK already. Putin's little poodle.

 

[JPRouve]

You would have to ask Keir Starmer, he seems to think they will.

Starmer may well be proved right over time, as mentioned earlier in a response to @Paul the Wolf the co-operation between the EU and the UK and indeed the US, will be something that 'shifts the ground' on a number of issues, all three will need to be in 'lock-step' on Ukraine, otherwise Putin (and or China) will exploit any differences.

Again, why would the EU negotiate a new deal? The EU and the UK currently have a deal, they are not isolated from each other so none of what you just wrote is relevant a new deal. Cooperation doesn't mean that you need to have a particular custom and trade relation and there is also no actual will from any of these parties to have common policies when it comes to trades and customs.

The entire thing is senseless, it's just politicians running their mouths and still trying to bamboozle electors.

 

[JPRouve]

The Swiss deal is a series of bilateral deals that neither Switzerland nor the EU want to go into again. They abanondoned new discussions not long ago. They are not in the CU so that means all the documentation problems (which is the biggest problem the UK has) is not solved.

Norway/Iceland is the acceptance of all the EU terms, four freedoms, freedom of movement etc. The only differences are that they are not in the Customs Union so can make their own trade deals but the problems of documentation/customs checks still exist. And they have no vote.

This works for them because they are much smaller countries plus they would not accept the UK into the EEA.

All of this was gone through between 2016 and 2019 earlier in the thread; six years later we're still having the same discussions and pointing out why it's not feasible or possible.

There is no UK deal available. If they are in the single market they have to accept the four freedoms, everybody does. if they are in the customs union they cannot have their own trade deals.

The British media and morons like Farage have a lot to answer for. There will some justice if and when Farage is tried for treason. Amazingly they're talking about him leading the Reform Party. Surely he's done enough damage to the UK already. Putin's little poodle.

Exactly. The entire thing is tedious at this point, what the UK want/need is what you get when you are a full member of the SM and EUCU, the solution to this isn't even a matter of negotiation they just need to apply to join the EEA and EUCU, also known as the agreements they just left.

 

[Maticmaker]

The Swiss deal is a series of bilateral deals that neither Switzerland nor the EU want to go into again. They abanondoned new discussions not long ago. They are not in the CU so that means all the documentation problems (which is the biggest problem the UK has) is not solved.

Norway/Iceland is the acceptance of all the EU terms, four freedoms, freedom of movement etc. The only differences are that they are not in the Customs Union so can make their own trade deals but the problems of documentation/customs checks still exist. And they have no vote.

This works for them because they are much smaller countries plus they would not accept the UK into the EEA.

All of this was gone through between 2016 and 2019 earlier in the thread; six years later we're still having the same discussions and pointing out why it's not feasible or possible.

There is no UK deal available. If they are in the single market they have to accept the four freedoms, everybody does. if they are in the customs union they cannot have their own trade deals.

The British media and morons like Farage have a lot to answer for. There will some justice if and when Farage is tried for treason. Amazingly they're talking about him leading the Reform Party. Surely he's done enough damage to the UK already. Putin's little poodle.

There have been a number of 'game changers,' since then, Covid, the war in Ukraine, the energy situation, mass migration issues (both affecting both EU and UK) and of course further worries over climate change deadlines, none of which have fully played out yet, what held six years ago won't necessarily hold for the next six.

No deal available for the UK, then Starmer is risking everything when he keeps talking up the idea that there is!

Regarding Farage, the Tory Grandees will have to do something if Farage does lead Reform Party, it would shred the conservative vote.

 

[Berbasbullet]

For fun, I just randomly decided to go to and old page (chose 999), and the first thing I saw was you exact 3 posters back in 2019 arguing over a pretty similar thing. what are the chances? (Quite high I imagine)

 

[Paul the Wolf]

There have been a number of 'game changers,' since then, Covid, the war in Ukraine, the energy situation, mass migration issues (both affecting both EU and UK) and of course further worries over climate change deadlines, none of which have fully played out yet, what held six years ago won't necessarily hold for the next six.

No deal available for the UK, then Starmer is risking everything when he keeps talking up the idea that there is!

Regarding Farage, the Tory Grandees will have to do something if Farage does lead Reform Party, it would shred the conservative vote.

There has been and always will be major events affecting everyone whilst the Uk were both in and out of the EU. Being out of the EU does not stop overall co-operation between countries or blocks of countries. The Uk have a relationship with the US as does the EU. They can all work together. And with other 'friendly' countries.

Immigration was a subject before and after the referendum. The Uk have made it worse (not better) by leaving the EU but they were told that as well. Plus the British media and government are conflating legal immigrants, illegal immigrants and asylum seekers into one pot and thus fooling the public into making them consider all immigrants as 'bad'.

I am an immigrant and proud of it!

For me Starmer has now managed to top my list of most useless Labour leaders in my lifetime. And yet he could still become PM.
For the Tories and Farage it's a contest as to who can be the most fascist.

The Uk needs a complete reset. The system, the thinking, the parties. The electorate are completely irrelevant to them. Now it's just who's the best confidence trickster who gets voted in.

 

[JPRouve]

For fun, I just randomly decided to go to and old page (chose 999), and the first thing I saw was you exact 3 posters back in 2019 arguing over a pretty similar thing. what are the chances? (Quite high I imagine)

It's the same bloody topic and negotiation dreams.

 

[4bars]

Why the EU and UK would negotiate for a trade deal if they just signed one a couple of years back?

You dont go signing major deals with other countries every few years as they are suppose to last decades with few twitches here and there. You move to the next country of interest and do on