Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
sun_tzu said:
Fishing rights are politically charged and will probably play a larger symbolic part of negotiations than the pure economics would dictate... Essentially a proxy issue for a bigger pissing contest.

I'm sure the SNP will also be politicing the sell out of Scottish fishing waters by Westminster (even though ironically they want to remain in the EU)

It shouldn't be insurmountable as an issue in the context of a broader deal but will probably involve a lot of rethoric and some creative language / spin at the end so both sides can say they won

Probably some "joint mechanism" for agreeing quotas and then EU fishermen get acces to our waters... We get access to theirs and no tariff access to each others markets... UK spin it that with the joint mechanism we decide if our EU friends play by our rules they can continue to fish ... EU spins it as no change other than there needs to be a joint mechanism to rubber-stamp EU policy because the UK has chosen to leave and take rules not partake in making rules (presumably with some system of implementing fines in each other when rules are inevitably broken on both sides but that's a few years away)

The brexit mob will sing rule Britannia and remoaners like me will call it out as bullshit
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I don't know how it gets resolved but the joint mechanism is problematic as the EU has no say in UK waters post Brexit. Can it force a say? possible but at that point its gone very badly wrong.

At the moment the British govt is refusing to engage in negotiations which start with EU presumptions of authority. Its the right move and now there is a govt with a big majority in parliament the negotiations will be very different to the previous rounds.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Its UK waters, the UN statute is clear the UK decides on matters in its EEZ. If the EU wants to try and coerce the UK into giving access I guess it can try to do so.

You have to make your mind up though, is it such a trifling little industry that you want to blow trade worth 65 billion a year net to the EU to secure an EU right to set quotas it doesn't have a right to have a say in? Rather than let the countries involved sort it out themselves under the UN remit.

All your posts these days are over the top ill thought out threats and wet dreams about how the UK should be /could be treated post Brexit. Personally I can't see the Dutch wanting to close Eindhoven in the new Devilish inspired continental system but I might be wrong.
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First of all you need to distinguish between what might happen and what will happen. If the French fishermen are as volatile and as powerful as their colleagues in the farming industry then expect pressure on the French government with the occasional disruption. This will lead not only to disruption to the supply line between France and the UK but also to the French government backing them. France is indeed a big player in Europe, some say as strong as Germany itself.

Secondly its pretty evident from Brexit that the economy aspect comes second (and sometimes third and fourth) to populism and the political agenda. We all know that Brexit doesn't make any sense economic wise. Same can be said about the reaction from the other side. For example the famous car industry which was meant to rebel unless the EU bowed down to each and every demand didn't rebel at all. Actually they rather see the UK leave without a deal then risk the integrity of the single market.

Finally its not me who came out with over the top ill thought out threats like 'leaving without a deal', not extending the transition period and expecting complex trade deals talks to end within a year or even suggesting that the EU should be backtrack on any deals made with the UK during the transition period. That was the UK prime minister Boris Johnson. All I am saying is, that maybe the EU should double down to his threat rather then simply ignore it as child talk. If its true that the EU holds most of the cards then the UK will be returning to the negotiating table after that, a lot more cooperative, humbler and who knows keener to discuss other options. Knowing how Brexiteers love analogies about cars, if you go to a Ferrari showroom and you start threatening that you will leave unless you buy the new Ferrari at the price of a Lada then most probably they will show you the door. Oh well.
 
sun_tzu said:
Fishing rights are politically charged and will probably play a larger symbolic part of negotiations than the pure economics would dictate... Essentially a proxy issue for a bigger pissing contest.

I'm sure the SNP will also be politicing the sell out of Scottish fishing waters by Westminster (even though ironically they want to remain in the EU)

It shouldn't be insurmountable as an issue in the context of a broader deal but will probably involve a lot of rethoric and some creative language / spin at the end so both sides can say they won

Probably some "joint mechanism" for agreeing quotas and then EU fishermen get acces to our waters... We get access to theirs and no tariff access to each others markets... UK spin it that with the joint mechanism we decide if our EU friends play by our rules they can continue to fish ... EU spins it as no change other than there needs to be a joint mechanism to rubber-stamp EU policy because the UK has chosen to leave and take rules not partake in making rules (presumably with some system of implementing fines in each other when rules are inevitably broken on both sides but that's a few years away)

The brexit mob will sing rule Britannia and remoaners like me will call it out as bullshit
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I think your projected outcome will probably be very close to what happens.
Fishing rights are one area where I could see the UK Government not being quite as hardline with the EU because I honestly don't think they care about the fishing industry particularly more the optics of being seen to be in control of British waters.
In Scotland, the East coast fishing communities are very pro keeping other countries out of British waters. West Coast is more about the shellfish and they rely on quick access to the EU market. Probably no deal with the EU keeps everyone happy.
 
It will be absolute madness if this virus creates a huge obstacle for talks and our government declines the sensible option to extend the deadline.

This virus is going to create a huge obstacle for talks and our government is going to decline the sensible option of extending the deadline.
 
Pexbo said:
It will be absolute madness if this virus creates a huge obstacle for talks and our government declines the sensible option to extend the deadline.

This virus is going to create a huge obstacle for talks and our government is going to decline the sensible option of extending the deadline.
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Just hope they can at least get a good deal on toilet roll imports.
 
Stanley Road said:
Whats the deal with panic buying bog rolls in some countries? I havent seen shortages of anything in NL. I guess we give less of a feck.
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I'm not really sure, especially in regards to just how many some people are buying. Both our local Tesco and Sainbury's stores have empty shelves of the cheaper loo rolls. Pasta shelves are pretty much empty as well, though I'm not sure what these people are planning to eat their pasta with as all the other shelves are pretty full.

Should add it's more to do with the coronavirus than brexit.
 
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Stanley Road said:
Whats the deal with panic buying bog rolls in some countries? I havent seen shortages of anything in NL. I guess we give less of a feck.
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It's generally viewed as something you need or at least would very much like to keep having. A rumour got around that they were selling out in places so people naturally panicked and ensured that places did sell out.
 
Pexbo said:
It will be absolute madness if this virus creates a huge obstacle for talks and our government declines the sensible option to extend the deadline.

This virus is going to create a huge obstacle for talks and our government is going to decline the sensible option of extending the deadline.
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Wonder if we'll see the US style reporting that the EU and remoaners are trying to politicised coronavirus to block brexit.

Boris has a get out with this as it'll be politically acceptable to delay. If they don't take it then it's as clear a sign as you can get that they're hell bent on no deal.
 
Full bodied red said:
Chlorinated lettuce, anyone.

Been happening for years and who knew ??

https://www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/lettuce-and-chlorine/

I had some lettuce in the UK last month.

Who do I complain to and, more importantly, sue because nobody's been posting warnings about it like they've been moaning about the chlorinated chicken ?
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The use of chlorine with chicken is bad because it goes hand in hand in the US with much lower sanitary conditions. They basically act like sanitation isn't important because they're going to be washing that shit in chlorine anyway. Strangely enough meat carries with it a number of concerns that lettuce does not.
 
Kentonio said:
The use of chlorine with chicken is bad because it goes hand in hand in the US with much lower sanitary conditions. They basically act like sanitation isn't important because they're going to be washing that shit in chlorine anyway. Strangely enough meat carries with it a number of concerns that lettuce does not.
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Sorry but couldn't resist it.

On the other hand, 300 million Americans don't seem to be as bothered about chlorinated chicken as the Remoaners in the UK who just spew it out bot-like whenever Brexit is being bitched about.

Or do we have evidence that chlorinated chicken is the reason US politicians seem to be ' different ' ??
 
Full bodied red said:
Sorry but couldn't resist it.

On the other hand, 300 million Americans don't seem to be as bothered about chlorinated chicken as the Remoaners in the UK who just spew it out bot-like whenever Brexit is being bitched about.

Or do we have evidence that chlorinated chicken is the reason US politicians seem to be ' different ' ??
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Food poisoning cases in the UK doubled to over 2m a year since 2009. That's roughly 1 in 30 people having food poisoning each year. You know what the rate is in the US? 48 million people, or roughly 1 in 6.

Want to guess what the main cause of food poisoning is?
 
Kentonio said:
Food poisoning cases in the UK doubled to over 2m a year since 2009. That's roughly 1 in 30 people having food poisoning each year. You know what the rate is in the US? 48 million people, or roughly 1 in 6.

Want to guess what the main cause of food poisoning is?
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I worked / lived in the US and Canada on and off for a couple of years in the late 1990s.

Assuming that there's been no reduction in their usage since then, based on what I saw and did myself, I'd hazard a guess that the main reason for the US stats you're quoting is the ridiculous amount of takeaway ' fast food ' that people in the US eat each day / each week / each month / each year....

But it's not all chicken that's sold / served / eaten or are you suggesting that the cases of food poisoning are all due to the chicken ?

And I'd say exectly the same for the UK stats. Since 2009, there's probably been a threefold or fourfold increase in the number and usage of takeaway food shops in the UK.

In particular, it always seems to me whenever I visit the UK the this growth is in the poorer areas of towns and cities. And I'm not suggesting there's a correlation between poverty and food poisonong, but there's almost certainly a correlation between the number of takaways and the lower incomes of the areas' residents.

But again, it's not all chicken that's sold / served / eaten.
 
Full bodied red said:
I worked / lived in the US and Canada on and off for a couple of years in the late 1990s.

Assuming that there's been no reduction in their usage since then, based on what I saw and did myself, I'd hazard a guess that the main reason for the US stats you're quoting is the ridiculous amount of takeaway ' fast food ' that people in the US eat each day / each week / each month / each year....

But it's not all chicken that's sold / served / eaten or are you suggesting that the cases of food poisoning are all due to the chicken ?

And I'd say exectly the same for the UK stats. Since 2009, there's probably been a threefold or fourfold increase in the number and usage of takeaway food shops in the UK.

In particular, it always seems to me whenever I visit the UK the this growth is in the poorer areas of towns and cities. And I'm not suggesting there's a correlation between poverty and food poisonong, but there's almost certainly a correlation between the number of takaways and the lower incomes of the areas' residents.

But again, it's not all chicken that's sold / served / eaten.
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It's not all chicken, but poultry and dairy products are by far the main cause of food poisoning. There's a reason why people are not impressed with the idea of taking on US food standards. The EU standards are much, much higher.
 
Kentonio said:
It's not all chicken, but poultry and dairy products are by far the main cause of food poisoning. There's a reason why people are not impressed with the idea of taking on US food standards. The EU standards are much, much higher.
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In farming, food production and restauration, I'll suggest that depends on which countries inside the EU you're using as examples.

Don't know about the UK, but here in the land of wine and cheese the only food from Eastern Europe which is sold in the large retailers and popular restaurants are Polish mushrooms and Greek cheeses. Sure, there are foods from Eastern Europe which are sold in specialised food stores for those countries' nationals, but in general no meat, no fish, and no dairy products seem to make it on to the shelves

Want to guess why that would be ??
 
Full bodied red said:
In farming, food production and restauration, I'll suggest that depends on which countries inside the EU you're using as examples.

Don't know about the UK, but here in the land of wine and cheese the only food from Eastern Europe which is sold in the large retailers and popular restaurants are Polish mushrooms and Greek cheeses. Sure, there are foods from Eastern Europe which are sold in specialised food stores for those countries' nationals, but in general no meat, no fish, and no dairy products seem to make it on to the shelves

Want to guess why that would be ??
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I also live in France, but to be honest I don't go around looking for eastern european products so I've no idea how widespread they are. Food production all falls under EU standards though, so I don't know why you assume some EU countries would have lower standards. I also don't know how you can feel so sure the meat and poultry here in France isn't sourced from there.
 
Kentonio said:
I also live in France, but to be honest I don't go around looking for eastern european products so I've no idea how widespread they are. Food production all falls under EU standards though, so I don't know why you assume some EU countries would have lower standards. I also don't know how you can feel so sure the meat and poultry here in France isn't sourced from there.
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Then you'll have noticed that all meat products sold in retailers and served in restaurants here have to show, by law, the country of origin either on the packaging or on the menu in restaurants. Edited to add that this was introduced following the BSE fiasco and was to protect consumers from eating meat from countries where BSE had been found.

And fish sold in retailers have to show the Latin name for the species ( God knows why ) and where the fish were caught or farmed, but this isn't the case in restaurants.

You ask why.....I'll suggest that hygeine standards in agriculture and food production is lower in all ( not just EU ) countries where lower economic levels don't permit the same depth, quality and frequency of regulatory inspection and, for non-EU countries, aren't always to EU regulatory standards.

In particular, let us know where and when you see any meat or fish or dairy products in Carrefour, LeClerc, Casino, Geant, etc, that say the source or origin is any of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria, Malta or Cyprus. You will, however ,see other products which are marked as ' Product manufactured in the EU ' from time to time - cigarettes in particular.

Which is all strange when you consider that production costs in those countries, whether cars or chicken, is so much lower and why Poland is now the world's largest exporter of cigarettes.
 
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Full bodied red said:
Then you'll have noticed that all meat products sold in retailers and served in restaurants here have to show, by law, the country of origin either on the packaging or on the menu in restaurants.
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Nope never noticed that. Have you considered getting out more?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Communist?;)

Think you've missed the point again.
Yes we all know they are continuation of EU agreements. And I haven't said any of the rest you said. I said they haven't negotiated any deals yet other than continuity copy and paste agreements which were signed whilst as a member of the EU ie not during the transition period and or in relation to the WA.
What I said was I wanted to know how they managed to do so and maybe some legal expert can advise.

I get the message, don't criticise the UK government.
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No, not communist. Labour or Greens. For someone as right leaning as you, I assume that does make me a card carrying communist though.

Yeah, that's definitely the message. Don't criticise the UK government. And definitely something I've never done, in real life or on this board.

Look Paul, especially right now, I have neither the time nor the energy to argue about this with you, especially considering how often you seem to miss the point and how completely and utterly sure you seem to be about every single thing you say.

I know the older you get the more stubborn you tend to get but it may be worth reflecting on how you're coming across when you're getting into these kinds of debates and eliciting these kinds of responses from multiple different people, who theoretically have the exact same viewpoint on this matter as you. Or not. Up to you I guess.

Stay safe in the current climate.
 
Stanley Road said:
Whats the deal with panic buying bog rolls in some countries? I havent seen shortages of anything in NL. I guess we give less of a feck.
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Europeans should stop being so disgusting and start washing their asses with water anyway, like people in Japan and the Middle East do.

Then you wouldn't have to hoard so much toilet paper in the first place. :D
 
africanspur said:
No, not communist. Labour or Greens. For someone as right leaning as you, I assume that does make me a card carrying communist though.

Yeah, that's definitely the message. Don't criticise the UK government. And definitely something I've never done, in real life or on this board.

Look Paul, especially right now, I have neither the time nor the energy to argue about this with you, especially considering how often you seem to miss the point and how completely and utterly sure you seem to be about every single thing you say.

I know the older you get the more stubborn you tend to get but it may be worth reflecting on how you're coming across when you're getting into these kinds of debates and eliciting these kinds of responses from multiple different people, who theoretically have the exact same viewpoint on this matter as you. Or not. Up to you I guess.

Stay safe in the current climate.
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You said I voted left of the Labour Party - your exact words "Thankfully, unlike you Paul, I've never even thought to give any party left of the Labour party my vote " and then you accuse me of "as right leaning as you". You'll have to make up your mind which one it is but then again neither are true.

Sarcasm doesn't always come over well on here.

One thing is certain, that no-one so far has managed to convince me otherwise that were only two reasons for people voting Brexit and I think I've made clear what they are.
Our interpretations of xenophobia and stupidity may differ. I haven't accused you of anything though. By the way I never miss the point. You'll see I was right in the end.

You stay safe too.
 
Full bodied red said:
Chlorinated lettuce, anyone.

Been happening for years and who knew ??

https://www.healthyfood.com/ask-the-experts/lettuce-and-chlorine/

I had some lettuce in the UK last month.

Who do I complain to and, more importantly, sue because nobody's been posting warnings about it like they've been moaning about the chlorinated chicken ?
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Thought it was common knowledge chlorine was of vegetables was allowed and is pretty standard

The reason the EU don't like the chlorine wash of chicken is that it's so effective they think it would allow abbatoirs etc to effectively reduce standards in other areas
 


images
 
This released just now hints that neither side wants to extend.

Joint statement by UK and EU negotiators following the videoconference on 15 April 2020

Joint statement following David Frost and Michel Barnier's statement via videoconference.

David Frost, the UK’s Chief Negotiator, and Michel Barnier, the European Commission’s Chief Negotiator held a constructive meeting today via videoconference.
The two sides took stock of the technical work that has taken place since the first negotiating round on the basis of the legal texts exchanged by both sides.

While this work has been useful to identify all major areas of divergence and convergence, the two sides agreed on the need to organise further negotiating rounds in order to make real, tangible progress in the negotiations by June.

Given the ongoing coronavirus crisis, these negotiating rounds – the structure of which is set out in the Terms of Reference – will take place via videoconference. The following dates have been agreed for negotiating rounds lasting a full week:
  • w/c 20 April
  • w/c 11 May
  • w/c 1 June
Agendas for all rounds will be published online in due course. The High Level meeting foreseen for June will take stock of the progress made.

Mr. Frost and Mr Barnier also discussed the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement. They welcomed the fact that a first meeting of the Joint Committee had taken place between Michael Gove and Maroš Šefčovič on 30 March and they looked forward to its next meeting. They agreed that the proper and timely implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement was a key priority for both sides and noted that the Specialised Committees provided for by the Agreement, including on the Protocol on Ireland / Northern Ireland and on citizens’ rights, would meet soon.
 
Jippy said:
This released just now hints that neither side wants to extend.

Joint statement by UK and EU negotiators following the videoconference on 15 April 2020

Joint statement following David Frost and Michel Barnier's statement via videoconference.

David Frost, the UK’s Chief Negotiator, and Michel Barnier, the European Commission’s Chief Negotiator held a constructive meeting today via videoconference.
The two sides took stock of the technical work that has taken place since the first negotiating round on the basis of the legal texts exchanged by both sides.

While this work has been useful to identify all major areas of divergence and convergence, the two sides agreed on the need to organise further negotiating rounds in order to make real, tangible progress in the negotiations by June.

Given the ongoing coronavirus crisis, these negotiating rounds – the structure of which is set out in the Terms of Reference – will take place via videoconference. The following dates have been agreed for negotiating rounds lasting a full week:
  • w/c 20 April
  • w/c 11 May
  • w/c 1 June
Agendas for all rounds will be published online in due course. The High Level meeting foreseen for June will take stock of the progress made.

Mr. Frost and Mr Barnier also discussed the implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement. They welcomed the fact that a first meeting of the Joint Committee had taken place between Michael Gove and Maroš Šefčovič on 30 March and they looked forward to its next meeting. They agreed that the proper and timely implementation of the Withdrawal Agreement was a key priority for both sides and noted that the Specialised Committees provided for by the Agreement, including on the Protocol on Ireland / Northern Ireland and on citizens’ rights, would meet soon.
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They probably don't want to but i can't see a way around it. I'm expecting some new arrangement that isn't but definitely is an extension.
 
Surely even the diehard Brexiters are not that stupid that they will want to force through a no deal Brexit into the eyes of the biggest recession since WWII regardless...
Or they will in a jingoistic war analogy frenzy
 
Jippy said:
Surely even the diehard Brexiters are not that stupid that they will want to force through a no deal Brexit into the eyes of the biggest recession since WWII regardless...
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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: oh Jipper, you jokester.
 
Jippy said:
You deleted my white text you bastard!
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I bet you wouldn't say that to my face you Euroseptic Torygraph columnist I know where you live 123 Fake street I saw the address in the just eat receipt from that time you ordered three large pizzas from dominos and pretended to ask your "mates" in the background during the call so it would sound like you weren't alone and just buying all the food for your fat bastard self.
 
Nice to see East Europeans being flown in to the UK to harvest the fruit whilst theirs currently 3M unemployed in the UK..
 
golden_blunder said:
Was wondering, will trade deals after brexit has been ‘done’ be harder or easier post Covid-19?
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I'd punt easier negotiations for us. EU have nothing to gain by making trade difficult anymore. They need everything working smoothly and so do we post covid.
 
VP89 said:
I'd punt easier negotiations for us. EU have nothing to gain by making trade difficult anymore. They need everything working smoothly and so do we post covid.
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But on the flip side you could argue (presumably with the economy tanked) the government may be inclined to be a bit less aggressive
 
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