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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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Wibble said:
Can an amendment include a new referendum?

And if so leave vs stay and if leave deal vs no deal?
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Theoretically yes, if the bill was given proper due process, any amendment can be added if it gets the votes. But BJ will not pursue this bill any further, probably enact a VONC against himself, and trigger an election.

Of course if he wins election with a working majority, he can then do as he pleases. If Labour win outright or via coalition, then they will decide BrExit via 2nd referendum.

IMO, The election is about 3 things:

1. How many leave voters are pissed with BJ for breaking his 31st October promise and protest vote to BrExit party. And if so, can Tory and BrExit party rule in coalition?

2. Labour, SNP and Lib Dem make a coalition pact, so they can instruct each other’s voters to strategically vote for whichever party has best chance to beat Tory candidate in a stronghold seat. Labour MPs in Leave constituencies will certainly need some help to retain their seats. Corbyns also alienated many champagne socialist centrists.

3. Election itself will not only be about Tory/Labour and Leave/Remain but also ‘cult’ war of personality between BJ and Corbyn, unlike we’ve ever seen before. I expect it to be very dirty, so also depends who can find and exploit hidden skeletons.

We are in crazy times so I don’t rule out anything!
 
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I really don't see a justification for not putting the bill to third reading with second reading passed. None of the previous attack lines work for Boris.

Yes he's paused it now but that's mainly because it's better to await the EU decision before they set a timetable.
 
TheGame said:
Mann, Fitzpatrick and Hoey are all standing down anyway. How Flint retains the whip after her behaviour and comments in the last few days is beyond me.
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It's just unfortunate that one half of Labour have been telling the other that you have to be broadchurch above all, accept all views and it being wrong to threaten the whip.

Now they want rid of those they disagree with.
 
Smores said:
It's just unfortunate that one half of Labour have been telling the other that you have to be broadchurch above all, accept all views and it being wrong to threaten the whip.

Now they want rid of those they disagree with.
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This is not about an acceptance of views. They are voting for a bill without any economical impact assessments and a lack of information about the risks with it. How can they vote for that as the Opposition? Just to save their seats?
 
More lies from Boris and his Tory chums. The bill has not passed parliament. Boris himself delayed the bill and thus delayed Brexit. Then the Tories try and blame Labour for the latest delay. That’s just changing reality, more lies for political gain. And yet I suspect people will want to believe the lies and vote Tory en masse at the next election. To be quite frank, the electorate deserves what it’s got coming. Hope you enjoy being shafted!!
 
Rams said:
More lies from Boris and his Tory chums. The bill has not passed parliament. Boris himself delayed the bill and thus delayed Brexit. Then the Tories try and blame Labour for the latest delay. That’s just changing reality, more lies for political gain. And yet I suspect people will want to believe the lies and vote Tory en masse at the next election. To be quite frank, the electorate deserves what it’s got coming. Hope you enjoy being shafted!!
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Why would we expect anything else? Boris just makes shit up on the fly again and again. Then lies about it.
 
Honest John said:
The notion that the Tories would take us down those roads is being overplayed in my view. They are all nailed-on vote losers. It would be suicide for them. I think the main aim is the principle of setting our own rules and regulations, not gaining the power to degrade them. To imply that the UK is unable to run an employment policy that stands up in a 21st century world without the EU showing it how, or forcing it to do so, is downright disingenuous.

Case in point EU minimum holiday entitlement is 4 weeks in the UK it is 5.6. If the governments intention was to reduce workers rights they could start right there and claim parity with the EU.
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Ultimately we have no idea what they'll do but everything points in one direction. Unless you ignore everything they've done regarding workers rights since the early 80s. They aggressively dismantled labour rights under Maggie. Negotiated an opt-out of the EU's social chapter under Major (and iirc voted against us joining several times in the 90s), and since Labour brought us in under Blair they've been trying to get us back out ever since.

Almost all advances in labour rights in the last 20 years are as a result of EU law.

I don't understand your leave example. The UK statutory is 28 days and that didn't exist until we fell in line with the EU in 1998, which is also 28 days. That EU law was introduced in 1993 but unsurprisingly we opted out until the Tories lost power.
 
madzo2007 said:
Seems like Boris has accepted the a 31st October exit is not going to happen when he said "One way or another we will leave the EU with this deal"

Also

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He'll be hoping to convince the EU to refuse the extention by saying if there's a deadline of the 31st with no extention parliament will accept the timetable and we'll get it done. He knows the EU will agree the extention though as it's too much of a risk but it won't stop him trying.
 
Wibble said:
Why would anyone give Boris the election he wants?
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If they're too stubborn to act in their own best interests and get Brexit settled with a GNU and 2nd ref then the default option is GE, no other options if Johnson manages to remove himself.
 
TheGame said:
Because Labour said they would vote for it if the EU granted an extension and now they are backed into a corner.
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Hasn't stopped anyone doing something else so far. Idiotic to give BoJo what he wants no matter what.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Looking forward to seeing these MPs “scrutinise” the deal. Wonder how many have actually bothered to read it. Jess Philips and Michael Fabricant up all night getting into the detail. I think not
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Well they don't need to stay up all night as they've got longer now because parliament isn't fecking stupid.

They may not need to at all if Boris decides to keep delaying and not bring the bill back for a 3rd reading.

Seriously the Tories look like idiots right now if the remain parties don't beat them to a pulp on this there's little hope for remain.

"We need a GE to break the deadlock....what deadlock?.....Erm"
 
Farage is out and about tearing Boris arguments to pieces. That in-fighting between the brexiteers may actually give the left a chance.
 
Smores said:
Farage is out and about tearing Boris arguments to pieces. That in-fighting between the brexiteers may actually give the left a chance.
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Will hopefully allow the Lib Dem’s to take seats in the marginals. Can’t see TBP being anything other than what UKIP were, getting a fair few votes but ultimately failing to win any seats in Parliament.

Do we know if Boris is planning to ask the House for an election this week? Surely if we want an election before Xmas it needs to be decided soon?
 
esmufc07 said:
Will hopefully allow the Lib Dem’s to take seats in the marginals. Can’t see TBP being anything other than what UKIP were, getting a fair few votes but ultimately failing to win any seats in Parliament.

Do we know if Boris is planning to ask the House for an election this week? Surely if we want an election before Xmas it needs to be decided soon?
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He will wait until the EU decide on the extension apparently. If it is until the end of January then hes going for an election.
 
Smores said:
Farage is out and about tearing Boris arguments to pieces. That in-fighting between the brexiteers may actually give the left a chance.
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That is true. BJ wants his deal through as un-amended as possible and then to restore a decent majority going forward with a GE. In that order preferably. If the GE comes first following an extension, Farage will launch a major offensive. He may well take from both sides and we will wind up with a bigger mess than we already have. I think having his lot in any way shape or form in the house will be a total disaster.

Apart from anything else, getting Johnsons deal through would have set the cnut back.
 
sun_tzu said:
Any news if brexit party will accept the Boris deal and not stand against conservatives... Or will they push for WTO and stand in all constituencies
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Farage was on the radio this morning telling us how awful the deal is and how untrustworthy Boris is.
So, no chance.
 
Buster15 said:
Farage was on the radio this morning telling us how awful the deal is and how untrustworthy Boris is.
So, no chance.
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It’s a free-for-all :lol:

What chance the 4 parties end up on roughly 25% of the votes
 
Honest John said:
That is true. BJ wants his deal through as un-amended as possible and then to restore a decent majority going forward with a GE. In that order preferably. If the GE comes first following an extension, Farage will launch a major offensive. He may well take from both sides and we will wind up with a bigger mess than we already have. I think having his lot in any way shape or form in the house will be a total disaster.

Apart from anything else, getting Johnsons deal through would have set the cnut back.
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From my perspective the worry is that Farage is seen as the extremist which by definition makes Boris a 'safer' vote.

Being attacked from both sides will either make Boris seem like the middle of the ground reasonable compromise or it'll tear him to shreds.
 
Although the Tories will almost certainly win, we really do need a general election. This is an unelected PM and a minority government. Even if the public don’t return the result I want, it’s only democratic to give them to opportunity to decide.

Worst time possible for it as it’ll be a Brexit election, and the opposition is a mess, but it really needs to happen regardless.
 
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