Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
sammsky1 said:
It’s impossible to have a sensible conversation on this if you’re going to reduce the entire private school system as entry into the Bullington club or whatever it is.
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Of course this conversation is ridiculous, I'm saying we should have

.Green New Deal.

.Improved union rights

.Voting rights for non British & Irish Citizens

.4 day working Week

.Ending immigration detention centres

and you want

. Private schools.


sammsky1 said:
Likewise, and annoyingly for me, it stops labour being electable because they lose a ton of votes.
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No what stops Labour being electable is you not voting for them. The labour party have looked at the issue facing Britain and the world and have come up with a platform of change, you can't disagree with it and not vote for that platform but it is your choice. Now I do sort of get it, Labours platform isn't in your material interest potentially(I don't know how wealthy you are and it could just be a case of the ''embarrassed millionaires.”) But this alone shouldn't stop you from voting for them because well.......moral reasons(Which is what I'm trying to appeal too).

sammsky1 said:
And just like you will first think about how your vote first impacts you, before other issues that don’t directly affect you, that’s the same for everyone.
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Shock surprise you live in the world with the rest of us. Your vote has a impact on other people and dismissing it by saying well everyone thinks of only themselves isn't going to cut it.

sammsky1 said:
Lastly, what is the fundamental purpose of human life in a progressive country, if it isn’t the generational advancement of those you love?
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The advancement of everyone in society ? Why stop at the family ? feck why even stop at borders ? There are millions of people in world who don't have clean drinking water, billions of people who live on less than £10 a day, child labour is still a thing, the famine in Yemen, we are facing the biggest threat to mankind in climate change etc. Look I don't know what the purpose of life is, I'm guessing there's a savage Erich Fromm quote out there about it but I do know that the world needs to be fundamental change for people to even have the freedom to decided what the purpose of their own life should be.

The Labour Party for all its many many faults offers right now the possibility to fundamental change Britain into a country that could offer people this freedom. Ok so if that little monologue didn't change your mind, then feck it Corbyn will just have to take away your house.
 
sammsky1 said:
He'd be right in that case. So what happens then?

(polite PS: lose not loose)
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Probably confidence motion and then either corbyn backs down and we get a PM of a GNU to ask for the extension or corbyn does not back down and we get a wto brexit as we have nobody to request the extension... with parliament dissolved 14 days after that and then a GE

Unless its decided that the queen can simply appoint a PM to write the letter (I suspect that will come with a side order of legal challenges)

p.s. Noted - 3rd language and all that
 
sun_tzu said:
Probably confidence motion and then either corbyn backs down and we get a PM of a GNU to ask for the extension or corbyn does not back down and we get a wto brexit as we have nobody to request the extension... with parliament dissolved 14 days after that and then a GE

Unless its decided that the queen can simply appoint a PM to write the letter (I suspect that will come with a side order of legal challenges)

p.s. Noted - 3rd language and all that
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An extension to do what? Go round in circles forever. Either the UK goes or stays , obviously no-one can agree on anything in-between. Revoke or No deal and even if its no deal the UK still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
An extension to do what? Go round in circles forever. Either the UK goes or stays , obviously no-one can agree on anything in-between. Revoke or No deal and even if its no deal the UK still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement.
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presumably an extension for a GE to see if we can get a parliamentary majority for something

Though it would be interesting to see what votes a norway type arrangement got if presented again (it does not have the political baggage of Mays deal) and it got quite a few votes before... if that got a majority then possibly that could form the basis of a renegotiation position and also justify an extension...

Think the EU would probably say take an extension till June - thats before the next EU budget comes in, it gives you time for a GE and a referendum but in the meantime no more negotations and some legal guarantee that there cant be another extension granted

unless cummings can get hold of the nuclear codes before then in which case i think he would just take out brussles and declare us an independent nation
 
Paul the Wolf said:
An extension to do what? Go round in circles forever. Either the UK goes or stays , obviously no-one can agree on anything in-between. Revoke or No deal and even if its no deal the UK still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement.
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Agreed, but via another referendum and not GE. IMO should be delinked from party politics.
 
sun_tzu said:
presumably an extension for a GE to see if we can get a parliamentary majority for something

Though it would be interesting to see what votes a norway type arrangement got if presented again (it does not have the political baggage of Mays deal) and it got quite a few votes before... if that got a majority then possibly that could form the basis of a renegotiation position and also justify an extension...

Think the EU would probably say take an extension till June - thats before the next EU budget comes in, it gives you time for a GE and a referendum but in the meantime no more negotations and some legal guarantee that there cant be another extension granted

unless cummings can get hold of the nuclear codes before then in which case i think he would just take out brussles and declare us an independent nation
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If there was a GE Boris would probably win so it's no deal, if by some miracle Corbyn won he'll be still going on about his proposal which is just as ridiculous as Boris's. Or if there was a referendum thereafter, Remain won it and the whole idea of Brexit was scrapped.

What will probably happen is that the EU will give an extension and two or three weeks before the deadline we'll be in the same situation as now.
 
I wonder if this withdrawal of EU intent to negotiate has the government worried or they still think it'll all part of the plan for an 11th hour deal.

The EU should stop engaging with the blame game and just end negotiations until the UK bring new proposals. 3 weeks of no progress would i think turn the papers against Boris. At the moment this pretence of the EU carrying on negotiations just feeds into Boris's PR of progress.
 
sammsky1 said:
Agreed, but via another referendum and not GE. IMO should be delinked from party politics.
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But Brexit came about because of British party politics and used people's prejudices to feed it and party politics is still feeding it.
Tories come up with stupid idea - Tory supporters say great , Labour supporters say terrible
Labour comes up with a stupid idea - Labour supporters say great, Tory supporters say terrible.

Rest of the world looks on in disbelief.
 
Sweet Square said:
Of course this conversation is ridiculous, I'm saying we should have

.Green New Deal.

.Improved union rights

.Voting rights for non British & Irish Citizens

.4 day working Week

.Ending immigration detention centres

and you want

. Private schools.



No what stops Labour being electable is you not voting for them. The labour party have looked at the issue facing Britain and the world and have come up with a platform of change, you can't disagree with it and not vote for that platform but it is your choice. Now I do sort of get it, Labours platform isn't in your material interest potentially(I don't know how wealthy you are and it could just be a case of the ''embarrassed millionaires.”) But this alone shouldn't stop you from voting for them because well.......moral reasons(Which is what I'm trying to appeal too).


Shock surprise you live in the world with the rest of us. Your vote has a impact on other people and dismissing it by saying well everyone thinks of only themselves isn't going to cut it.


The advancement of everyone in society ? Why stop at the family ? feck why even stop at borders ? There are millions of people in world who don't have clean drinking water, billions of people who live on less than £10 a day, child labour is still a thing, the famine in Yemen, we are facing the biggest threat to mankind in climate change etc. Look I don't know what the purpose of life is, I'm guessing there's a savage Erich Fromm quote out there about it but I do know that the world needs to be fundamental change for people to even have the freedom to decided what the purpose of their own life should be.

The Labour Party for all its many many faults offers right now the possibility to fundamental change Britain into a country that could offer people this freedom. Ok so if that little monologue didn't change your mind, then feck it Corbyn will just have to take away your house.
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I'm glad you said it.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
An extension to do what? Go round in circles forever. Either the UK goes or stays , obviously no-one can agree on anything in-between. Revoke or No deal and even if its no deal the UK still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement.
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On what basis? Will the EU still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement too in the event of no-deal, in terms of rights of UK citizens, transition period, access to databases etc?

I think in the event of no-deal, the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement are by definition dead, at least until agreed otherwise between the EU and UK.
 
sammsky1 said:
It’s very badly conceived bollox, and will cost Labour many votes that they once had.

PS: you’ve yet to tell me what to spend my wages on when I can’t pay to educate my children or leave them untaxed inheritance. Should I just piss it away down the pub then?

You’re right, let’s leave it there.
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This is the general problem with Corbyn's brand of politics. It has absolutely nothing to do with improving the lives of the poorest people in the country and everything to do with bringing the middle down to a bottom level (the rich will always be able to sidestep these policies). The fact that the poor people are also adversely affected in the process is academic.

The first step is nationalising all schools and therefore putting the extra pressure of over half a million extra pupils on the school system; not only ruining a good education for the privately educated but also making mediocre state schools have to deal with a huge spike in demand, worsening their education in the process. Then he would move on to private healthcare, with the same effect applying. He'd nationalise universities which would vastly limit the places on offer; meaning the poorest and middle would be prevented from going. He'd implement rent caps which would incentivise landlords to have their properties fall into disrepair, meaning squalid conditions for the poor and lower middle earners. He'd push for greater cartels/trade unions which would inflate the wage being offered by certain jobs and therefore prevent the poorest in society from climbing the ladder (see train drivers). He'd nationalise other areas such as water/energy in order to reduce household bills, the effect being that these industries would have to vastly reduce investment in order to fund these price reductions; which would inevitably lead to water/energy shortages which again would hurt the poorest who couldn't afford the backup generators and water supplies that the wealthiest would have installed. He'd increase council tax and SDLT hugely on properties with a higher value, forcing middle earners to displace the poorest in lower value houses and therefore forcing the poorest into squalid housing; again the rich would be unaffected. He'd increase corporation tax irrespective of the fact that this would reduce physical tax receipts, this would hit middle earning small businesses who can't avoid these taxes like larger corporations. Then as you say he'd tax death to a degree that would destroy any incentive for middle earners to accumulate wealth; one side effect being that middle earners would stop paying into private pension schemes (why would you save a £1m pension giving you £40k a year for 25 years, if you could die 2 years into it and the state could seize the majority), the byproduct being middle earning pensioners are forced into squalor.

The end result is that all incentive to work hard and earn a great living for yourself and your family is destroyed and therefore everyone (apart from the top 1% of course) will be brought down to the level of the poorest in society.
 






 
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SteveJ said:
Some speculation that Johnson might declare a state of emergency on the 19th, to avoid the Benn Act stuff.
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Shame that he doesn't do the same about THE most important problem facing us instead of insulting the climate change protestors.
I am afraid he has zero credibility.
 
Buster15 said:
Shame that he doesn't do the same about THE most important problem facing us instead of insulting the climate change protestors.
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Yes, it's about time he commented on Coleen v Rebekah.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
On what basis? Will the EU still have to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement too in the event of no-deal, in terms of rights of UK citizens, transition period, access to databases etc?

I think in the event of no-deal, the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement are by definition dead, at least until agreed otherwise between the EU and UK.
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I should have said the three main points - which are citizens rights, the settlement and maintaining the GFA. EU countries will give whatever rights the UK give to EU citizens.
 
Take to the sheets!

EGY9Y05X0AADs19.jpg
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I should have said the three main points - which are citizens rights, the settlement and maintaining the GFA. EU countries will give whatever rights the UK give to EU citizens.
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Those three main points you mention are what the EU will presumably insist on as a precondition for reopening trade negotiations after a no-deal Brexit. But there will be no obligation on the UK in the meantime without a ratified Withdrawal Agreement. Who knows how long we would sit in stalemate after a no-deal exit before the sides start talking again.
 
Jippy said:
Take to the sheets!

EGY9Y05X0AADs19.jpg
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The pro Brexit student movement is, of course, massive in numbers. I also feel that relieving overburdened GPs by not turning up to waste their time with your trivial shit is sure to force ...well, whoever it is they feel is denying them...to concede, that is if eBay's protests about its tanking profits due to a small drop in second hand commemorative Queen Mother plates sales doesn't make those damned remoaners capitulate first.
 
Sounds like the revolution will be led by Beavis & Butthead, and the suicide squad from Life of Brian.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Those three main points you mention are what the EU will presumably insist on as a precondition for reopening trade negotiations after a no-deal Brexit. But there will be no obligation on the UK in the meantime without a ratified Withdrawal Agreement. Who knows how long we would sit in stalemate after a no-deal exit before the sides start talking again.
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Yes, they would be a precondition but the GFA is an international treaty whether there's a dispute with the EU or not and the money issue is a debt which would be due.

A short dose of no-deal Brexit should soon bring people to their senses.
 
MikeUpNorth said:
Who knows how long we would sit in stalemate after a no-deal exit before the sides start talking again.
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5 minutes would be my guess.. but it would then become a trade off the WDA v a new Trade deal, the outcomes to implemented simultaneously. The fact that the EU has insisted that its rules said it couldn't negotiate until the UK effectively became a third country, means it was always going to be either revoke A50 or a 'No deal', but it has taken us 3+ years to get there... may even take a bit longer if the extension is granted/accepted? However in reality those have always been the only two options, they still are and another 3 months down the line still will be.

Parliament is like the mouse inside the wheel, peddling like mad, getting nowhere and driving the rest of us loopy just watching it.
 
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Paul the Wolf said:
Yes, they would be a precondition but the GFA is an international treaty whether there's a dispute with the EU or not and the money issue is a debt which would be due.

A short dose of no-deal Brexit should soon bring people to their senses.
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Yes, the GFA agreement should in theory prevent either side imposing border controls on goods or people entering their territory.

I suspect in a no-deal scenario the UK will keep the border open (in the short term) and play a rhetorical game that it’s up to Ireland whether it chooses to do the same.
 
Maticmaker said:
5 minutes would be my guess.. but it would then become a trade off the WDA v a new Trade deal, the outcomes to implemented simultaneously. The fact that the EU has insisted that its rules said it couldn't negotiate until the UK effectively became a third country, means it was always going to be either revoke A50 or a 'No deal', but it has taken us 3+ years to get there... may even take a bit longer if the extension is granted/accepted? However in reality those have always been the only two options, they still are and another 3 months down the line still will be.

Parliament is like the mouse inside the wheel, peddling like mad, getting nowhere and driving the rest of loopy just watching it.
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The only thing that made it no deal vs revoke is our own ridiculous red lines.
 
Smores said:
The only thing that made it no deal vs revoke is our own ridiculous red lines.
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Its the same for both sides I'm afraid, both claim they have lines they cannot cross, but then each needs the other to cross them, in order to get a deal. Therefore in reality the negotiation ends before it begins. Hence we stay where we are or we leave.
 
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