Someone has a negative opinion of Britain's past actions and behaviour in other countries, so obviously they must hate the English.
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Someone has a negative opinion of Britain's past actions and behaviour in other countries, so obviously they must hate the English.
Please check the exchanges between me and others. I posted about the difficulty that the uk and (if it ever wanted) Ireland would have leaving the EU because of the GFA. Please check cyberman response to that. He was referring to the UK invading other countries which by my calculation refers to way further back in history than the recent troubles. My Danes response was to that and it was not a comparison to the recent troubles and in no way - if you bother to track it - could it be deemed to be so.
This thread has become ridiculous, shouldn't even laugh but trying to compare viking raids to the troubles is ridiculous. There are many who are still alive and live with the consequences of that.
Might as well tell African Americans to get over slavery and Jews to get over the holocaust
Of course it's a comparison, Britain being seen as the occupying force is a very modern viewpoint. Hell my grandfather saw all of Ireland under British rule in his lifetime
Also, Denmark no longer occupies a part of Britain. It beggars belief that this needs pointing out but some seem to think throwing a viking argument into proceedings bears some relevance to the brexit debate.
Yeah I have a negative opinion of my ancestors past actions but I shouldn't be made to feel guilty about it in every exchange we have regarding Brexit in 2019 (which is how it feels).
This could be the strongest argument for a United Ireland. Is British nationalism really worth putting up with all the shite we are seeing from Westminster.
Don't Ireland want to join the Schengen area but haven't done so because of the CTA as the UK got an opt out because it wanted to keep its border controls?
Now if Ireland joined the Schengen area after the UK leave, couldn't we all buy a one way ticket for all the refugees who try to cross the channel from Roscoff to Cork to Belfast to Liverpool and see if the UK change their mind.
Now if Ireland joined the Schengen area after the UK leave, couldn't we all buy a one way ticket for all the refugees who try to cross the channel from Roscoff to Cork to Belfast to Liverpool and see if the UK change their mind.
Well done, boys - in casually dismissing Irish concerns & complaints as 'boring', and making knowingly ridiculous comparisons to outdated atrocities, you've justified their criticisms.
I didn't dismiss their concerns as boring. It was the poster.
Lads, it's Ireland
It only feels like that because you insist on telling people to forget those historic actions have any relevance when expecting them to compromise on your behalf today.
Well, except for Legoland.
Me feels bad, send back up.
You could be onto something here - a field of exposed lego pieces could be the technological alternative to a hard border we've heard so much about!
You could be of Danish descent or a Norman or an Angle
And if you were correct you could be a Right Angle.
I've never said forget them? Ultimately all this started as another Irish poster called everyone who voted leave in the UK a self righteous cnut. Then others came on bringing up the Empire, occupation of Ireland and essentially slagging off the English.
Absolutely pointless. I simply said the rhetoric from the EU has been throughout that they wouldn't treat the UK differently from other countries who have left the EU when given the delicate situation and unique circumstances I feel you can't have a one size fits all stance and all sides should make compromises.
What compromises should the EU/Ireland make?
Not to divert the thread back on point or anything.
The only possible one could be a time limited backstop of 5 years or so to put an impetus on finding the solution. I suspect there isn’t one in reality though. I really do think we’ll hard Brexit now because the Tories have boxed themselves into a corner where it’s either destroy the party for a generation at least or renege on the GFA.
The EU should tactically have allowed some form of opt out or restrictions on free movement for EU member states long ago. This post from a while back links to some compromises/ changes to the structure of the EU which would have been pragmatic.
Not so much Ireland but Brussels.
Perhaps bending their rules on the single market and customs union regarding trade between Southern and Northern Ireland without trapping the rest of the UK. It's difficult but I do get the feeling the EU has decided they want to be tough on a deal and not be seen to give anything to the UK which is fine but there should have been an acceptance that there's a quite precarious situation in Ireland and perhaps some special dispensation could be made?
I am far from happy with how the UK have gone about negotiations but I think it's naive to think the EU have been angels throughout.
I thought your response to my post was not called for. Do you think responding every comment made by English poster about Ireland with a ‘reap-what-you-sew’ argument is constructive?
PS I'm also not a Tory nor am I a Brexiteer. Despite some here wanting to decide for me!
It is not slagging off the English to remind them that they have responsibilities and historic accountability for a region they themselves destabilised.
The UK is not being treated any differently to any other country who have left, apart from in the very specific and unique circumstances of Northern Ireland and a peace agreement the UK was an equal partner in designing and agreeing to.
Just because something happened a long time ago, doesn't mean you can ignore your responsibilities. You are expecting Ireland to compromise on something which we know will hurt us economically, politically and most significantly, will jeopardise peace and security on our island - just to make your wish of breaking clear of the European Union easier for you to accomplish. Then you are resenting us for not agreeing to it.
Britain decided to leave the European Union so Britain should be the one who compromises. It is as simple as that. The idea that we should simply get over the history of what happened between our countries might be valid if there was an ocean border between us but there isn't, there is a land border which results directly from that historic invasion and occupation.
I can't get my head around the idea that someone could refuse to accept the relevance and importance of this. How anyone could be so self-centered and self-interested as to expect Ireland or the other EU members to bend to such school yard bully tactics.
Do i?
Youre the one making insulting comparisons here. You also can't ask why it's awkward for England and Ireland to manoeuvre then be shocked at the answer.
I gave you the honest answer, not liking the obvious answer lays at your door quite frankly.
What did you think an Irish response would be?
Well i can't speak on your personal experiences mate. But from what i've read in this thread Britains horrible colonial past doesn't come up that regularly.
"It'll be grand"
Who are you trying to remind of their responsibilities? Me? I don't need any reminder thanks and I find it quite patronising. You even mentioned the Nazi's earlier. You also seem to like making personal insults and sweeping statements about me when you know nothing about me or my beliefs and thoughts. Again I find that pretty insulting.
Anyway your view that "they wanted to leave so feck em" is childish and part of the bigger problem at hand. How in life you can survive on that one dimensional attitude is beyond me.
Really ?
Plus you seem to be taking criticism of the British Empire and its crimes personally. No one has called you names or insulted you. You just feel bad.
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Sigh.
Surely you can see why I'm calling your debating style disingenuous? You are not arguing points in good faith here.I am saying Britain has to remember its responsibilities and you know that - stop trying to pretend everything is personal and you are somehow a victim here. I apologise if I'm coming across as patronising but it is very difficult not to sound like you are debating with a child when you keep coming up against such childish arguments.
I mentioned the nazis when discussing the idea that countries and societies have acknowledged, come to terms with, and made reparations for the wrongs of their predecessors - something Britain has never really done. You stating "You even mentioned the Nazi's earlier" without any context is not an honest argument - it's Daily Mail tactics of painting me as a sensationalist and trying to discredit my argument without putting in any effort to engage. It also leads me to believe you don't think the historic actions of Britain towards Ireland bear any relevance to the historic wrongs of other regimes but I can't be sure on that so you are welcome to come back and set me straight there.
You'll need to show me where I've made personal insults and sweeping statements about you but you're correct, I do know nothing about your beliefs or thoughts. I can only engage with what you present me with here and that's what I am engaging with. If you have other thoughts and beliefs you think I should be acknowledging you are welcome to share them with me.
On that note, you yourself are putting views and opinions in my mouth that do not represent my own. I have never said "they wanted to leave so feck them", only that Britain chose to Brexit so Britain should be expected to compromise on the specific arrangements for Northern Ireland which will be affected by that choice. Ireland did not choose for Britain to leave the EU - it is not logical, rational or fair therefore to expect Ireland to harm itself in order to compromise on Britains behalf. That is not nasty or vindictive, nor is it me saying "Feck them" - it is just reality.
In my life I have always strived to be accountable for my own actions. I expect others to be the same.
You've got some nerve coming in here, after what you did!
Sigh.
I am saying Britain has to remember its responsibilities and you know that - stop trying to pretend everything is personal and you are somehow a victim here. I apologise if I'm coming across as patronising but it is very difficult not to sound like you are debating with a child when you keep coming up against such childish arguments.
I mentioned the nazis when discussing the idea that countries and societies have acknowledged, come to terms with, and made reparations for the wrongs of their predecessors - something Britain has never really done. You stating "You even mentioned the Nazi's earlier" without any context is not an honest argument - it's Daily Mail tactics of painting me as a sensationalist and trying to discredit my argument without putting in any effort to engage. It also leads me to believe you don't think the historic actions of Britain towards Ireland bear any relevance to the historic wrongs of other regimes but I can't be sure on that so you are welcome to come back and set me straight there.
You'll need to show me where I've made personal insults and sweeping statements about you but you're correct, I do know nothing about your beliefs or thoughts. I can only engage with what you present me with here and that's what I am engaging with. If you have other thoughts and beliefs you think I should be acknowledging you are welcome to share them with me.
On that note, you yourself are putting views and opinions in my mouth that do not represent my own. I have never said "they wanted to leave so feck them", only that Britain chose to Brexit so Britain should be expected to compromise on the specific arrangements for Northern Ireland which will be affected by that choice. Ireland did not choose for Britain to leave the EU - it is not logical, rational or fair therefore to expect Ireland to harm itself in order to compromise on Britains behalf. That is not nasty or vindictive, nor is it me saying "Feck them" - it is just reality.
In my life I have always strived to be accountable for my own actions. I expect others to be the same.
So you apologise then deliver an insult. Great.
With regards to the other part there you go again making judgements (despite saying you haven't).
I think it's pretty obvious you have some deep rooted issues with the British which supercede Brexit and the past three years. That's your prerogative I guess and understandable given the history. I just don't think it's healthy to have an 'us vs them' mindset, especially when the average bloke like me (and the millions of others in the UK) had nothing to do with what went on in Ireland and have lots of love and affection for the Irish in general. It's very unfair and unnecessary.
No worries. Better thank the Polish as well then.
Which British people did you have in mind to prevent them from moving to or working or living in the EU?
Of course if they couldn't support themselves or were a burden on a particular EU country, they could be sent back to the UK.
F*cking 'ell - they even pillaged Schmikes!No worries. Better thank the Polish as well then.
Whichever people the member state decides it wants to grant residency status.