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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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The politics of this are huge imo. Trump basically saying he wants our NHS.

Look at this condom. A No-deal credit and we would be biting their hands off at anything.
 
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Adisa said:
The politics of this are huge imo. Trump basically saying he wants our NHS.

Look at this condom. A No-deal credit and we would be biting their hands off at anything.
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Remainers should adopt "they want to flog the NHS" as a slogan. That will rattle the Brexiteers.
 
Won't surprise me if a lot are willing to sacrifice the NHS in order to get the immigrants out.
 
Adisa said:
Won't surprise me if a lot are willing to sacrifice the NHS in order to get the immigrants out.
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Sadly see a lot of comments saying just that. They would happily sacrifice the NHS just so they can say they won. Infuriating.
 
Adisa said:
Won't surprise me if a lot are willing to sacrifice the NHS in order to get the immigrants out.
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Yeah, there are some on the lunatic fringe, for whom Brexit is like religion. But I would imagine a sizable portion of leave voters are not and wouldn't want to lose the NHS. Actually, given the demographics of leave voters, it could be decisive, much as the slogan on the bus was.
 
They do need to work on their positive messaging, but you also need to point out why the other side is bad as a counterpoint. "Take back control" was only able to be effective because they'd portrayed the EU as a constraining force that imposed laws and immigrants on us, whilst taking money that could be spent on services. The NHS being up for grabs in the magical trade deal we're going to do with the US is important info. That we'd walk into wonderful mutually beneficial trade deals on leaving the EU is a dangerous lie that needs to be shown as such.
 
Stanley Road said:
Remainers should focus on a campaign as to why remaining is good instead of why leaving is bad, locusts, ww3 and all that. Maybe they can learn from last time.
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You mean make up lies because 17.4million gullible fools believed the lies last time.

All the reasons why the UK should stay have been pointed out a trillion times but the gullibles aren't listening.

Anyway, there is only one way to solve this and that is for the UK to leave as soon as possible and then reality will finally hit home because no matter what remain say the gullibles won't believe them.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You mean make up lies because 17.4million gullible fools believed the lies last time.

All the reasons why the UK should stay have been pointed out a trillion times but the gullibles aren't listening.

Anyway, there is only one way to solve this and that is for the UK to leave as soon as possible and then reality will finally hit home because no matter what remain say the gullibles won't believe them.
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Hate to say it but its this attitude and bollox that gave Brexit victory.
 
Stanley Road said:
Remainers should focus on a campaign as to why remaining is good instead of why leaving is bad, locusts, ww3 and all that. Maybe they can learn from last time.
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I have heard this said a lot, but what exactly should remainers offer as "for the good" arguments? What should they say about WW3 that doesn't sound like Project Fear?

The grass is greener on the other side and all that. It is easy to say that remainers should concentrate on arguing for why staying is good but people already have those advantages and maybe they don't appreciate them. Arguing the merits of the status quo is pretty hard, especially when the status quo isn't perfect. Not many compelling arguments when you haven't a boxful of new shiny toys to offer.

Maybe a remain and reform campaign will have some merits but I doubt even they will be all that compelling. At least not as compelling as look at what they want to do to the NHS.
 
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Do people honestly think there's logical arguments left that aren't just easily batted away by a leave point of view?

The only angle i see is to play up the unicorns and that they'd been sold magic beans. It doesn't attack a leavers point of view it puts the blame on politicians and it also calls into focus any grand claims by leavers on the way forward. Some will believe the 'we just need to negotiate better' but most know it's the WA or no deal.
 
Stanley Road said:
Remainers should focus on a campaign as to why remaining is good instead of why leaving is bad, locusts, ww3 and all that. Maybe they can learn from last time.
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Damn you DontBurnDownTheHouse campaigners! Why don't you focus on the good aspects of not burning the house down, why do you keep harping on about some supposed bad side that we all know is just Project Fear?!
 
Stanley Road said:
Hate to say it but its this attitude and bollox that gave Brexit victory.
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But it's not though is it.

Since the referendum we've had Brexiteers believing the WTO rubbish and are now all experts on international trade. We've had "no deal" as what they say they voted for, which was never the case at the time of the referendum. The Irish border issue only seemed to become focussed on after the referendum and they don't care anyway , the queues at the ports etc and the list goes on but the Brexieters still believe all the bollox three years later.

To stoke the fires since the referendum, forget morons like Farage, the two leaders of the main parties are just as guilty - May with her frictionless trade whilst being out of the CU/SM which is impossible and Corbyn with his 6 tests which can only pass if the UK remains in the EU.

It's clear that even Remain could actually prove what they say, the Brexiters would still vote to Leave. Only when their lives are turned upside down will it start to register that they've made an enormous mistake.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
You mean make up lies because 17.4million gullible fools believed the lies last time.

All the reasons why the UK should stay have been pointed out a trillion times but the gullibles aren't listening.

Anyway, there is only one way to solve this and that is for the UK to leave as soon as possible and then reality will finally hit home because no matter what remain say the gullibles won't believe them.
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Not everyone votes by the GDP sword. Faster you learn this the easier it will be for you.

If remain could point out the benefits of an ever closer union they would do much better at the polls
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I'm not just talking about GDP, things people take for granted will change, you'll see.
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I know. But providing we leave with a deal we won’t all die.

The issue is the remain side has nothing to offer beyond the laughable “remain and reform” nonsense. I reckon it would be a catastrophe at the ballot box if there was another referendum
 
Steven Seagull said:
I know. But providing we leave with a deal we won’t all die.

The issue is the remain side has nothing to offer beyond the laughable “remain and reform” nonsense. I reckon it would be a catastrophe at the ballot box if there was another referendum
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Yes I don't see Remain winning a new referendum - but Leave have nothing to offer other than wild claims which some people want to believe but are total fantasy. Only leaving and experiencing reality will change peoples minds eventually for long term benefit of future generations when sanity returns and people like Farage are found out.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Am now convinced it's best for Europe that the UK leaves.
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Having been against it from the beginning and for much of the past 3 years I've come to the same conclusion. Let brexiteers prove all their promises, let them perform, and we shall see. From now on the faster the UK are out the better it is for everyone else. The cost might be high to everyone, but at least it will end, and the rest of the Europe can move on.

The first thing we should do afterwards is create laws that prohibit the entrance of foreign propagandists. Keep Farage & Boris on British soil from now on.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Yes I don't see Remain winning a new referendum - but Leave have nothing to offer other than wild claims which some people want to believe but are total fantasy. Only leaving and experiencing reality will change peoples minds eventually for long term benefit of future generations when sanity returns and people like Farage are found out.
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I personally believe it’s about immigration and decision making. Both perfectly good reasons hijacked by Farage and co
 
Paul the Wolf said:
It's clear that even Remain could actually prove what they say, the Brexiters would still vote to Leave. Only when their lives are turned upside down will it start to register that they've made an enormous mistake.
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See there it is again, the more you tell brexiteers this the more united they become. I've rarely heard any remain mp say anything other than 'leaving the eu will be a disaster' and not 'remaining will be great because of xyz'. it's mental.
 
Stanley Road said:
See there it is again, the more you tell brexiteers this the more united they become. I've rarely heard any remain mp say anything other than 'leaving the eu will be a disaster' and not 'remaining will be great because of xyz'. it's mental.
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What do you want them to say, that if they vote remain they'll win a £1million on the lottery.
They're not interested in the benefits of the EU which they all take for granted, only when these benefits have gone will they realise what the benefits are. All the benefits have been pointed out over and over again.

Trump in the UK at the moment is a classic example.
Let's live a little in fantasy land for a moment.
Let's assume Trump is a really nice man and will do all he can to give the UK the best bigliest deal ever. Let's assume that the UK have the best negotiating team in the world.

The biggest single country export destination for British goods is currently the USA. (The EU as a group is 5 times bigger).
The biggest export to the USA are cars.
The car industry will gradually disappear from the UK when they leave, not because the EU are punishing them but because it will not be economically viable to produce them in the UK for European or Asian manufacturers .
So even with fantasy land fantastic terms negotiated , not only will the UK have to replace the cars they currently produce just to get back to the level they are at the moment but find something else to sell to increase their sales.
Same also applies to China.

When did Leave say leaving will be great because of xyz that wasn't a lie. They got the votes by lying.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
What do you want them to say, that if they vote remain they'll win a £1million on the lottery.
They're not interested in the benefits of the EU which they all take for granted, only when these benefits have gone will they realise what the benefits are. All the benefits have been pointed out over and over again.

Trump in the UK at the moment is a classic example.
Let's live a little in fantasy land for a moment.
Let's assume Trump is a really nice man and will do all he can to give the UK the best bigliest deal ever. Let's assume that the UK have the best negotiating team in the world.

The biggest single country export destination for British goods is currently the USA. (The EU as a group is 5 times bigger).
The biggest export to the USA are cars.
The car industry will gradually disappear from the UK when they leave, not because the EU are punishing them but because it will not be economically viable to produce them in the UK for European or Asian manufacturers .
So even with fantasy land fantastic terms negotiated , not only will the UK have to replace the cars they currently produce just to get back to the level they are at the moment but find something else to sell to increase their sales.
Same also applies to China.

When did Leave say leaving will be great because of xyz that wasn't a lie. They got the votes by lying.
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Is it not possible for you to see things any other way? What if we leave with a deal and maintain a close relationship with the EU? You’re like a robot.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Is it not possible for you to see things any other way? What if we leave with a deal and maintain a close relationship with the EU? You’re like a robot.
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I only deal with reality and logic. Wishing for something that is not possible is a waste of time.

What sort of deal do you expect the UK to have? The only withdrawal agreement possible is the one that's been overwhelmingly rejected.
What is a close relationship with the EU? Being in the CU or the SM or both. Yet again rejected by parliament.

The Uk can't even agree to maintain citizens rights, respect the GFA or pay what they owe and we're now three years after the referendum.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I only deal with reality and logic. Wishing for something that is not possible is a waste of time.

What sort of deal do you expect the UK to have? The only withdrawal agreement possible is the one that's been overwhelmingly rejected.
What is a close relationship with the EU? Being in the CU or the SM or both. Yet again rejected by parliament.

The Uk can't even agree to maintain citizens rights, respect the GFA or pay what they owe and we're now three years after the referendum.
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I think it will be revoked now if I’m being honest. Either that or we eventually vote for Mays deal. We could’ve made something better of the situation but remain MPs have refused to do any work for 3 years and the ERG clowns want to ruin us. But you’re on a forum just beating the same drum as if nobody knows what the situation is.
 
Steven Seagull said:
I think it will be revoked now if I’m being honest. Either that or we eventually vote for Mays deal. We could’ve made something better of the situation but remain MPs have refused to do any work for 3 years and the ERG clowns want to ruin us. But you’re on a forum just beating the same drum as if nobody knows what the situation is.
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Refused to do any work for 3 years? Every leave outcome is worse than staying, by every economic metric. Why would people who think leaving is a bloody stupid idea be working hard to leave?
 
Kentonio said:
Refused to do any work for 3 years? Every leave outcome is worse than staying, by every economic metric. Why would people who think leaving is a bloody stupid idea be working hard to leave?
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Because it’s their job? I think they should be working hard to leave the EU in a most orderly fashion.

In what other occupation can you throw your hands up in the air and spend 3 years moaning about your boss’ instructions? Whilst calling him a thick cnut.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Because it’s their job? I think they should be working hard to leave the EU in a most orderly fashion. In what other occupation can you throw your hands up in the air and spend 3 years moaning about your boss’ instructions?
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No it isn’t their job. Their job is to protect the interests of their constituents. Working towards something they believe will be bad for their constituents is quite literally the opposite of their job.
 
Steven Seagull said:
I think it will be revoked now if I’m being honest. Either that or we eventually vote for Mays deal. We could’ve made something better of the situation but remain MPs have refused to do any work for 3 years and the ERG clowns want to ruin us. But you’re on a forum just beating the same drum as if nobody knows what the situation is.
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I don't see who will revoke it. None of the list of candidates to replace May will revoke it and if one really stretches one's imagination and think that Corbyn would ever become PM, he won't revoke it either.

Any form of Brexit will be a disaster. If the UK stays in the CU and SM then it would be the least damaging but what would be the point of leaving.

As for the MPs - for them Tories vs Labour is still a more important contest than Remain vs Leave.
Until the anti-EU sentiment is flushed out of the system it will never go away and the only way to do that is for the UK to leave.

I still don't get the impression that the UK as a whole realise what the real repercussions of leaving will be.
 
These feckers are so dishonest. One of the biggest obstacles to a FTD with America is that their pharmaceutical companies feel the NHS pays too little for drugs because it can negotiate as a block and has a monopoly on demand.
 
Steven Seagull said:
Because it’s their job? I think they should be working hard to leave the EU in a most orderly fashion.

In what other occupation can you throw your hands up in the air and spend 3 years moaning about your boss’ instructions? Whilst calling him a thick cnut.
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By working you mean voting through any deal presumably? 99% of MPs have nothing to do with EU negotiation or preparation efforts which are largely civil service.

Who is the boss in this scenario anyway?
 
Adisa said:
These feckers are so dishonest. One of the biggest obstacles to a FTD with America is that their pharmaceutical companies feel the NHS pays too little for drugs because it can negotiate as a block and has a monopoly on demand.
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No no no.

Donald will talk to the pharmaceutical CEO's and they'll give the Brits a discount because the queen was really nice! How could they possibly want anything from their special partner at his weakest point?



If these people really thought what they say they should look at US trade negotiations with Mexico, China and the EU (all of whom are in a better place to bargain than the UK would potentially be). In reality they know it though, they know the UK will get fecked over, they just don't care.
 
Sweet Square said:
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My guy at 11:43 saying it like it is. :rolleyes:
The black guy after vexes me the most tbh. A lot of people in my generation are idiots. He says he is concerned about the kind of society his daughter grows up in but not concerned about letting racists win. How does that make sense? Fool.
 
Adisa said:
My guy at 11:43 saying it like it is. :rolleyes:
The black guy after vexes me the most tbh. A lot of people in my generation are idiots. He says he is concerned about the kind of society his daughter grows up in but not concerned about letting racists win. How does that make sense? Fool.
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The older gent I think misunderstands a great deal. He's clearly frustrated about immigration (fair enough, thats his opinion) but to complain about the high street being dead isn't a Government issue. It's simply a global trend moving away from high streets due to the internet. Old timers like him cant accept society moving away from his childhood memories.

The younger generations who can't be bothered to vote annoy the feck out of me. Lazy attitude that will have lasting repercussions for the next few decades.
 
Adisa said:
My guy at 11:43 saying it like it is. :rolleyes:
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And then when he gets called out(The Guardian writer mentioned immigrates but the guy was clearly also talking about british people of colour as well)he says ''Your trying to put words in my mouth'' :wenger:

Adisa said:
The black guy after vexes me the most tbh. A lot of people in my generation are idiots. He says he is concerned about the kind of society his daughter grows up in but not concerned about letting racists win. How does that make sense? Fool.
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I've recently been reading the 18th brumaire by Marx(Yes I'm that cool)and honestly everyone in that video with the possible exception of the Labour activists and the lady who works at pizza hunt are no different than old timey french peasants.
 
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