Surely the ERG will come round to a deal. No way they risk a long delay, a long delay would likely result in a 2nd ref.
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Meh. Everyone's very excited but I think this has still gone May's way as far as I can see. We'll ask for an extension, we won't get one, that will take the best part of a fortnight, and then there'll be a last-minute third vote on her withdrawal agreement. The more avenues that are closed off beforehand (deliberate no deal, extension etc) the more likely she'll get it through in the end.
it's going to be voted again regardless of anything else
There was no way that some of them would vote for no deal but wouldn't vote against the whip.
I think she's going to throw the dice one more time on her deal. At least sound the hard Brexiters out on it, warning it's that or possibly no Brexit at all.
'no second referendum, over my dead body'
interesting choice of words given that an MP was already killed over this fecking thing.
interesting choice of words given that an MP was already killed over this fecking thing.
Who said that?
Why won't we get one?
If EU doesn't unanimously agree to an extension am I right in thinking that one (fairly comical) option is for the UK to unilaterally revoke article 50, then immediately reinstate it so we can all enjoy another two years of this nonsense.
Yes... But even with the erg votes I'm not sure she can get her deal through...
Not sure dup will vote with her
And switching from a free to whipped vote I suspect she will have lost some of the more moderate conservative support for good as well
Brexiteer on Sky News, paraphrasing Tory backbenchers.
May might not actually be able to, it depends on whether she brings something different back and whether Bercow thinks it's substantially different. There's a thread above this, but I've quoted this tweet as it has the relevant bit of Erskine.
Because it would only take one country to object.
On what basis? Assuming we are requesting in good faith?
She didn't update the details of her statement to reflect the fact that she had effectively been defeated twice. Just another detail to the shambles.
wow shes a straight up witch
She's 55? Feck off 
On any basis they like, really. Or no basis at all.
Would the EU even allow that or do they have a choice?
It sounds that the Government is definitely intending to put May's deal back to the House again. Hopefully tomorrow's motion will be amended creatively.
There'd be nothing stopping us doing it. That was confirmed in January.
It would really feck everybody off though.
Not heard that but there's an old docu called The Power of Nightmares about that, which is fantastic.
Think in the end Mays deal will go through, and that will be that.
As far as I remember (I might be wrong) the ECJ ruled that a member state could unilaterally withdraw from Article 50 at any point so while doing so might annoy them I don't think other EU members have any say at all.
There's a British/Dutch journo called Simon Kuper who writes some really good stuff on football for some Dutch magazines. Not sure if he's rated in England as well where he seems to be writing for the Financial Times, but one of his Brexit articles from 2016 got republished in Dutch recently and it sums up things quite well I thought (though presumably you guys are very much aware of this already of course and it might've been discussed countles of times so it could be just a pointless addition to this thread).
Still funny to see how that type elitism and fooling of the masses seems to work the same everywhere. He went to school with a whole load of Brexit figureheads:
https://www.ft.com/content/f4dedd92-43c7-11e6-b22f-79eb4891c97d
Brexit: a coup by one set of public schoolboys against another
"I went to university with both sets, and with hindsight I watched Brexit in the making. When I arrived at Oxford in 1988, David Cameron, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove had just left the place. George Osborne and the future Brexiters Jacob Rees-Mogg and Daniel Hannan were all contemporaries of mine. I wasn’t close to them, because politically minded public schoolboys inhabited their own Oxford bubble. They had clubs like the Bullingdon that we middle-class twerps had never even heard of.
Their favourite hang-out was the Oxford Union, a kind of children’s parliament that organises witty debates. A sample topic: “That sex is good . . . but success is better”, in 1978, with Theresa May speaking against the motion. May is now running for Tory leader without the usual intermediate step of having been Union president, though her husband Philip, Gove and Johnson did all hold that post. (Beautifully, Gove campaigned for Johnson’s election in 1986.)
"The public schoolboys spent decades trying to get British voters angry about the EU. But as Gove admitted to me in 2005, ordinary voters never took much interest. Perhaps they didn’t care whether they were ruled by a faraway elite in Brussels or ditto in Westminster. And so the public schoolboys focused the Brexit campaign on an issue many ordinary Britons do care about: immigration. To people like Johnson, the campaign was an Oxford Union debate writ large."
May will like the interview with the Tory hard leaver on the beeb just now, he says the only choice is now between May's deal and no brexit.
What this guy, the EU Brextit negotiator, says for one:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...cle-50-extension-vote-deal-EU-guy-verhofstadt
There are also the right wing Italians who want to see us leave and are talking to Farage by all accounts.
I'm not good with politics, but can someone explain how today's vote and tomorrows vote is any different?
Today - vote between A) taking no off the table completely or B) leaving with no deal.
Tomorrow - vote between C) extension of article 50 or D) leaving with no deal.
Why offer an already rejected choice in tomorrows vote? They honestly might as well make option D) Eboue.
Today - vote between A) taking no off the table completely or B) leaving with no deal.
Tomorrow - vote between C) extension of article 50 or D) leaving with no deal.
Why offer an already rejected choice in tomorrows vote? They honestly might as well make option D) Eboue.
The song remains the same - May will put her deal back to parliament next week as the only means of delivering the great prize of Brexit. And she win probably win.
The lesson for me is not to laugh at disfunctional “democracies” in other parts of the world. Here, despite a growing majority for remain, we are being held to ransom by some awkward xenophobe who is somewhere on the Asperger’s spectrum and leading a party of 100,000 geriatrics and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
The lesson for me is not to laugh at disfunctional “democracies” in other parts of the world. Here, despite a growing majority for remain, we are being held to ransom by some awkward xenophobe who is somewhere on the Asperger’s spectrum and leading a party of 100,000 geriatrics and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it.
So a second referendum is unthinkable... but May’s deal can come back for a third vote after being rejected twice.
Presumably one or two of the countries might try to leverage their veto for some other purpose. But once the big players back it, I would imagine everyone will fall in line. The 27 have been very united (until now) on Brexit.
How can she genuinely get away with this? This is not democratic this is straight up a dictatorship.
Yeah the reason of this vote tonight was to show the ERG that the two options were May's deal or a softer deal. They now expect the ERG to vote for May's deal.
ITS WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT.
The SNP are doggedly keeping on with the questions, nearly everyone else has pushed off now.
Im in shock really. How can she do this? Can parliament not take control?
Can someone explain to me the logic behind this vote? Isn't NO DEAL something that inevitably will happen in the absence of an alternative? Why are they voting on this?
My understandig was that if you want NO DEAL you vote against any proposed deals or extensions, and if you wan't a deal then you have to vote for the single one available or for an extension to try and get another.
What am I missing?
My understandig was that if you want NO DEAL you vote against any proposed deals or extensions, and if you wan't a deal then you have to vote for the single one available or for an extension to try and get another.
What am I missing?