Body Found in Tia Sharp's Grandmother's house
- Thread starter Randall Flagg
- Start date
Who's a nurse then?
He confuses you with Pennared.
An IQ problem
An IQ problem is thinking that these people are just normal members of the working class, that everyone in the world votes left, and that people who try and make the very uncontroversial point that these people are a little bit different from the average are rampant elitist Tories.
Yes, an IQ problem in that you need to be more than a bit fecking stupid to think 'that these people are a little bit different' is something to do with class.
Right, seventh time I've said this now. The concept of murder is not class related. Your lack of IQ is why you can't see the point I'm making. Apologies for being so elitist.
What's so great about working or wanting to work. I know some complete tools who work, and soon as my business allows me to sell up and retire to the sun and self suffiency i will, does this make me damned?
In fairness to myself, I wasn't as bad as this when I was 20 . I've definitely become far more judgemental with time. And I'm not saying this is a good thing, but Alastair is just so right with his 4th class comments.
And i also agree about the upper classes who would " look down " on people like me, when I owned a Medical Clinic, for example, a lot of the Consultants who rented rooms couldn't get past the fact that I was a Radiographer. Or that I loved football for that matter.
And i also agree about the upper classes who would " look down " on people like me, when I owned a Medical Clinic, for example, a lot of the Consultants who rented rooms couldn't get past the fact that I was a Radiographer. Or that I loved football for that matter.
From what I remember, in the UK being a victim of violent crime does correlate with poverty.
Which of course proves that this particular murder is symptomatic of the behaviour of a '4th class' of terrible parents who don't work and happily leave their kids alone with machete-wielding career criminals.
You're taking an isolated case and making sweeping judgmental generalisations.
And murders?
Based on what? The stories you read in the Daily Mail?
It's nice to see you being fair to someone...even if it is yourself
And of course this '4th class' is not the only British class with a lot of members who don't work.
Heh, their daddies struck lucky with successful businesses, they're virtually blue blood.
I still don't really understand where the correlation between unemployment and violent crime sprung from. Between going to the pub and spending a few hours a day in the bookies these underclass types - or 'scum' as I affectionately call them - wouldn't have time to fit in a murder before they sit down to their chip butty and Eastenders.
When I was working in Bradford in the 1980s, I used to visit women in their own homes. There were one or two massive and very deprived council estates where I encountered things which were quite shocking.
The families I'm talking about often had loads of kids. The parents didn't ever work and they didn't seek work - work was irrelevant to them. They allowed their tiny children to drink and smoke in front of them and didn't send them to school. Their houses were packed to the roof with rotting bags of rubbish which they never bothered to put out for the dustman. There were newspapers all over the floor covered with dog mess. There were the remnants of takeaways just left out until they rotted. The children simply peed on the floor, they didn't use the toilet and weren't told to do so. There was a lot of incest going on too, I'm afraid to say. And I saw lots of homes which were just like this.
I don't know who these people are, but they are completely outside of any notion of 'society'. They are not 'working class', that insults my own roots.
The families I'm talking about often had loads of kids. The parents didn't ever work and they didn't seek work - work was irrelevant to them. They allowed their tiny children to drink and smoke in front of them and didn't send them to school. Their houses were packed to the roof with rotting bags of rubbish which they never bothered to put out for the dustman. There were newspapers all over the floor covered with dog mess. There were the remnants of takeaways just left out until they rotted. The children simply peed on the floor, they didn't use the toilet and weren't told to do so. There was a lot of incest going on too, I'm afraid to say. And I saw lots of homes which were just like this.
I don't know who these people are, but they are completely outside of any notion of 'society'. They are not 'working class', that insults my own roots.
Ok this thread turned out differently than its intentions.
The grandmother is now arrested. And someone not related to the family too.
The grandmother is now arrested. And someone not related to the family too.
Most likely filthy commies.
Probably gay foreigns, if I had to hazard a guess.
It's completely obvious that Hectic isn't middle-class - the scruffy beard, the army surplus clothes and the smelly cigar give it away!
And he's Cuban.
Oh wait, that's his avatar, not him...doh.
And he's Cuban.
Oh wait, that's his avatar, not him...doh.
Still no-one seems to want to answer the question of which social class these people belong to. Plech avoided it earlier, as an example.
Penna wrote a great post describing what went on in the 80's - who are these people? The working class?
Everyone is claiming I'm elitist by saying these people belong to a 4th class, so I want suggestions to what group they actually do belong to.
Penna wrote a great post describing what went on in the 80's - who are these people? The working class?
Everyone is claiming I'm elitist by saying these people belong to a 4th class, so I want suggestions to what group they actually do belong to.
What is your obsession with class?
Plus Guevara was an upper class Argentinian doctor and intelectual.
Book covers ey? You just can't judge the feckers.
But you know that the main bone of contention with your argument is that the so-called members of this fourth class are a growing problem in terms of incidents like this, rather than whether or not it's appropriate to fit them inside that neat little categorisation?
The point is that there are people in this thread who seem to think that the class of this family bears no relation to the way in which this murder has taken place.
I want to know what class this family belongs to so I can try to understand why they think it's irrelevant.
Were you being ironic there?
Yeh, but look after the little bones and the big bones will look after themselves.
I think it's clear that this is something which is a problem, and something that has to be addressed.
Some people have simplifed this to me saying unemployment = murder, which I haven't insinuated at all. My point has been that living in this underclass contributes to the circumstances where serious crime might take place, a point I stand by.
From the little I know about them, they're working class. There are all sorts of people in each social class.
I was using the french spelling.
But they don't have any attributes that I associate with the working class, like actually working, raising their children properly, voting etc.
There's rarely anything truly new in the history of crime; so I'm not sure that there's anything 'special' or genuinely instructive about this particular incident.
A social class isn't a homogenous group of people who behave identically, it's a broad grouping taking in all manner of different people and behaviours.
Yeh, I am aware of that. It's obvious these people don't belong to the working class, but there's no way I'm going to convince you of this.
Touché
This post amused me.
'Working class' is usually taken to mean people on low incomes or unemployed, often who do less prestigious or manual work. I don't see why this family sits outside that.
It hardly needs to be pointed out, but there are 'good people' and 'bad people', lazy people and hard working in every social class. Not everything needs to be romanticised, nor does it demean people in a given group because of the failures of some others.
Our towns and cities are melting pots in which class definitions aren't especially valid. I mean, look at the Jack the Ripper case & the assumptions people often have - it all seems so black & white ('Everyone in Whitechapel was poor, sub-working class'; 'The killer must have been truly local' etc etc); this is mere generalisation, and ignorant of the facts about Whitechapel folk, its history, the eclectic mix of local people & the varied classes who frequented the place. It's irresistible to draw big pictures but this remains prone to error and casual thinking.
I didn't. I consistently called them working class, which is primarily an economic group. Yes there is - or at least was - such a thing as working class culture, but it's never been true that everyone within the group embodied its best attributes.
The same applies to other groups. For example, middle-class culture as I've experienced it involves an ironic, mildly guilt-ridden sense of its own absurdity. Erica-style overt snobbery/class supremacism is quite alien to me (though I've seen it before, and experienced it as a part of other subcultures I'm part of, and I'm sure I've partaken in it unwittingly from time to time). But I'm not suggesting she's not middle-class. She just embodies different middle-class values from the ones I happen to like.
You can. You just can't always judge the book by them.
Sorry Erica, been to the gym. Should have said radiographer, of course.
The whole notion of class has changed over the years. A teacher for instance would never have been considered middle-class 50 years ago. The headmaster maybe, but no one below. Nowadays more than half the country would consider themselves middle-class.