Body Found in Tia Sharp's Grandmother's house
- Thread starter Randall Flagg
- Start date
Sure, there are people like that, but presently the number of people genuinely seeking work exceeds the number of available jobs, so those unwilling to work would be unemployed either way from a net perspective.
That's certainly true, working at pdsa hospitals we used to regularly see 2nd and 3rd generation unemployed with young kids, who clearly have never worked and never will. Is it worse now than it used to be? I'm not so sure.
Tia's grandmother was reportedly out working the night she went missing. Just thought I'd slip that in there. Maybe she thought her boyfriend would avoid murdering a child, who knows.
Should also add that he hasn't been charged yet.
Should also add that he hasn't been charged yet.
You're elitist
Jesusssss. This is just crazy.A WUM surely?
I just hate the way you talk about this 'class' of people. It's so fecking ignorant. The root cause of these complete low lifes are conditions and environmental factors outside their control, so to speak of them in such hateful and judgemental tones is disgusting. I'm not excusing what this particular person did, but the way you talk is just outrageous.
I don't know what area you were fortunate enough to grow up in Alistair but if the people on your hypothetical street where 90% don't work and have criminal records were to have the same opportunities, then you can be sure they would have turned out different.
You are right there is a problem, but you are attributing it to the wrong people and the way you're talking about a whole group of people, it's just crazily stupid and offensive.
I dunno maybe. He's pissing me off though. Doesnt know how lucky he is.
It's the way he's talking about a whole group of people as if they're scum, because of what? They were born on the wrong fecking street?
Why is Alistair being a cnut? Does he think higher class people have never murdered before? Do one will you Alistair ffs.
I hope they string up Hazell by the throat.
I hope they string up Hazell by the throat.
Did he confess?
True, but he did run and the body was found at his birds place. Looks bad for him.
From what little I've read, it does..
But I dont think we know anywhere near enough at the moment.
Let the cops take care of it.
But I dont think we know anywhere near enough at the moment.
Let the cops take care of it.
This is exactly what I said to my husband, last night. I didn't put it as well as you though, Alastair. I think I said , it's always these type of people.
I still don't think those awful McCanns should have escaped any censure for leaving those little ones alone t night
Well done, you didn't read any of my posts. I mean, posts like that just make you look like a complete idiot who can't read.
Just like most of those "lower classes".
My tone is hateful of their condition, not of them really. I agree that these people are more often than not born into this culture, and they don't really have many opportunities in life.
The point I was making with the town in which I work is that the problem is so ingrained into one area. Crime has fallen over the last decade or so, quite considerably in parts, but I find it extremely worrying that the crime remains in a very small epi-centre.
The reason I refer to them as the 4th social class is because it would be wrong to label them as anything else. Just as I was lucky to be born middle-class, this poor little girl has been unlucky to be born into the family she was.
This is where we get onto the murder. Murders happen everywhere, in all walks of life. My point, however, was that murders like this are indicative of this type of culture. The girl was left in the hands of a known criminal, not just once but over a long period of time. This guy was known to be a drug-taker, and everyone knows the short(and long) term effect such activities can have on a person.
My argument was that this particular type of murder was indicative of the way in which this group of people behave. If you do have such concentrations of crime in a small area, then the concept of how bad crime is tends to be lost, hence why this mother seems to have thought nothing of leaving a 12 year old with this man. The difference isn't the amount of murders, it's how they materialise.
I have not been offensive or elitist in my post because it's there for all to see. I personally find it quite ironic that given the average Caf member is working class, they seem so keen for these people to be one of them. The reality is that they're not. They probably couldn't write a coherent post, they have probably never worked, and they probably have a history of crime, or at the very least, live in a world where crime is rampant.
You must have put it exceedingly badly and stupidly then. Perhaps some sort of irrelevant, ill-thought-out assertion of class superiority?
Erica said:
Ah yes, there we go.
No, a rare and disturbing case of child murder is not indicative of anything. If you want to discuss the prevalence of crime amongst different social groups then you need actual statistics and analysis, not reactionary rhetoric.
And it doesn't always seem to be these type of people then ?
Or is it just because I dared say " these type of people "?
What is it that you don't understand? I've never been talking about the amount of murders, just the way in which they're committed.
I understand the point you are trying to make. You are attempting to draw a general causal link between unemployment/ concentrated areas of social problems and the conditions that led to this murder. What you fail to grasp is that you are taking a very specific case and reaching very broad conclusions.
This kind of thing tends to happen after high-profile crimes, whereby people try to draw wide-ranging conclusions from staggeringly rare cases. A similar thing happened after the London riots last summer, with the political left and right both seeking to weave the story into their chosen narrative. I was as guilty of this as anyone, trying to prematurely paint the riots as a symptom of social inequality and lack of opportunity.
You can dare to say it, but its just massively stupid.
Good post, and honest. I bet we all did.
Anyway, a woman's been charged with the murder too. So do we slag women off now instead of the lower classes, or just lower-class women?
And sure enough...
The 46-year-old woman is most likely the grandmother. Got no idea who the 39-year-old man could be though.
It's a fair post. I may be premature on this one. I don't think I am, but I see your point.
Not stupid, a little rash perhaps, but then I've never cared what people like would think. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who's middle class for a change. All my family and friends would agree with Alastair. Even my son, who has turned into such a leftie my dad threatens to disinherit him , can see the distinctions. He tries hard to pretend he's not elitist, but he is, when pushed.
@Alastair have you just ignored my post from last night? Or not seen it? Lots of people from all classes take people into their lives who have a criminal past. Where I believe the idea of a 'type of person' is correct, they are certainly not only in the lower classes.
I agree with you , Alastair. Mike's post is an extremely fair one. I'm impressed that he admits he initially fell into that way of thinking, I can't imagine anyone else admitting to it. Not on this site certainly
Yeah Hectic, you lower class twonk, put yourself in the shoes of someone who thinks they belong to a higher class.
Wow. Nice little insight there. Also "put myself in the shoes of someone who's middle class for a change". That's odd.
Nothing new , surely ?
It's not a question of merely thinking. There are distinct classes in this society, whether you like it or not.
Can you not see how weird you sound? You seem massively out of touch.
Well if you did, you would see why Alastair and I think as we do. I'm not belittling you Hectic , my own husband is from a working class background so don't get the impression I think I'm above them. But, as Alastair says, it's that lowest class that I'm dismissive of
Why do you think I'm not middle class Erica?