Best post-Maradona player (peak level)

[Member 5225]

I don't get the Zidance hype tbh - apart from his 2 headers in the WC final, I can't think of any huge game moments - and/or any season where he just completely dominated a league.

 

[balaks]

It seems pretty clear that this is a generational divide to me. Those who watched Ronaldo's peak are, by and large, going to pick him, whilst those who did not, will pick Messi and find it inconceivable that any player could be rated above him.

Not necessarily - I'm 40 years old and grew up watching Maradona, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo (Brazilian) - Messi is head and shoulders above any of them.

 

[balaks]

I don't get the Zidance hype tbh - apart from his 2 headers in the WC final, I can't think of any huge game moments - and/or any season where he just completely dominated a league.

Zidane was a great player but he shouldnt be in the same bracket as the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona, etc. - he is more on the level of a Cryuff which is still high praise as he was exceptional but not a GOAT contender.

 

[predator]

Messi by a country mile. He is the best player to ever kick a ball. He is in a class of his own. Ronaldo R9 comes closest in my opinion and that's only if you consider him at his peak.

 

[Stocar]

People like to idolize legends of last few decades. I remember the time very clearly, and not a single one of them stands close to Messi. Players like Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho were magical. They had a certain aura and were dominant, imposing figures on the pitch. Their style was powerful and expressive, whereas Messi is more understated and subtle. But so much more effective and better, as a scorer and playmaker. He simply gets past players, creates and scores more than any of aforementioned. It's just that everyone got used to it, and his style is maybe not as flashy and expressive. But not less magical and exuberant. And more effective in all aspects.

 

[harms]

Zidane was a great player but he shouldnt be in the same bracket as the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona, etc. - he is more on the level of a Cryuff which is still high praise as he was exceptional but not a GOAT contender.

Ehm, which bracket it is if any of Ronaldos is there and Cruyff is not? Some serious underrating here.
Agree on Zidane though.

 

[Sammyjunn]

People like to idolize legends of last few decades. I remember the time very clearly, and not a single one of them stands close to Messi. Players like Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho were magical. They had a certain aura and were dominant, imposing figures on the pitch. Their style was powerful and expressive, whereas Messi is more understated and subtle. But so much more effective and better, as a scorer and playmaker. He simply gets past players, creates and scores more than any of aforementioned. It's just that everyone got used to it, and his style is maybe not as flashy and expressive. But not less magical and exuberant. And more effective in all aspects.

This, I find it laughable that people can say Ronaldo had more to his game than Messi, bar the brute speed, explosivity and two footedness, there is nothing he could that Messi cant, and he's nowhere near Messi as a playmaker, and creator.

 

[Peyroteo]

Cristiano Ronaldo will end up underrated even if his efficience is close to Messi's because instead of going through 3 opponents and playing fantastic passes, his movement inside the box and leaping ability are what sets him apart and are less enjoyable to watch. Just like Gerd Muller, as effective as it gets but he's never talked about as the greatest.

Peak Cristiano Ronaldo is nearly a perfect football player. Right personality, deadly on counters, fantastic at offensive and defensive set pieces and you just need to put a few crosses into the box and you're guaranteed a goal. He'll have the longevity too, he'll be banging them in 7 and 8 years from now I have no doubt about it. I still think Messi is better but seeing people's opinion of him here is upsetting although I think a few people just simply don't like him.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Cristiano Ronaldo will end up underrated even if his efficience is close to Messi's because instead of going through 3 opponents and playing fantastic passes, his movement inside the box and leaping ability are what sets him apart and are less enjoyable to watch. Just like Gerd Muller, as effective as it gets but he's never talked about as the greatest.

Peak Cristiano Ronaldo is nearly a perfect football player. Right personality, deadly on counters, fantastic at offensive and defensive set pieces and you just need to put a few crosses into the box and you're guaranteed a goal. He'll have the longevity too, he'll be banging them in 7 and 8 years from now I have no doubt about it. I still think Messi is better but seeing people's opinion of him here is upsetting although I think a few people just simply don't like him.

It's more that if he doesnt score he is almost useless, his general play is relatively piir, poor dribbling, average passing etc. But as a rinisher, he is God.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Zidane was a great player but he shouldnt be in the same bracket as the likes of Ronaldo, Messi, Maradona, etc. - he is more on the level of a Cryuff which is still high praise as he was exceptional but not a GOAT contender.

Cruyff is easily in the top bracket of players along with Messi, Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano and arguably Beckenbauer/Baresi. The fact he is never mentioned along Pele and Maradona makes him underrated as feck.

 

[WackyWengerWorld]

This, I find it laughable that people can say Ronaldo had more to his game than Messi, bar the brute speed, explosivity and two footedness, there is nothing he could that Messi cant, and he's nowhere near Messi as a playmaker, and creator.

Well you're wrong, he was also better at heading and defending corners

 

[Moonred]

I don't get the Zidance hype tbh - apart from his 2 headers in the WC final, I can't think of any huge game moments - and/or any season where he just completely dominated a league.

Really? You can't remember any other big game moments from Zidane? I can understand the second bit.

 

[Peyroteo]

It's more that if he doesnt score he is almost useless, his general play is relatively piir, poor dribbling, average passing etc. But as a rinisher, he is God.

Now that is basically true, but a few years ago I don't think that was the case at all. His general play was never superb but he used to be a lot better than he is now. Even right now, he's so good in the box that if outside it he just holds the ball up, keeps possession and allows the team to move forward then he still manages to be very effective without all the brilliant dribbling and passing. One thing that I also think sets Cristiano apart is the entire transformation of his game from a winger to a pretty much number 9. There aren't a lot of players of his quality who managed to change their game so dramatically and so succesfully.

 

[Gio]

I don't get the Zidance hype tbh - apart from his 2 headers in the WC final, I can't think of any huge game moments - and/or any season where he just completely dominated a league.

I get what you're saying about the extended dominance - it was more purply patch stuff within seasons although he still exuded class when not right at the top of his game. I do think it was harder for a creative midfielder to dominate every week when the teams were more evenly matched than they are today, but ultimately his consistency with the bread and butter stuff doesn't help his stature in the GOAT stakes. In terms of other big game moments:

• 1997 Champions League Semi Final v Ajax - really took Ajax to the cleaners scoring a fine goal
• 19
• 1998 World Cup Final v Brazil - excellent all-round performance and two goals
• Euro 2000 Quarter Final v Spain - top class performance including a free-kick
• Euro 2000 Semi Final v Portugal - top class performance including the winning penalty
• 2002 Champions League Semi Final v Barcelona - very influential in overcoming Barcelona
• 2002 Champions League Final v Leverkusen - that volley and an all-round strong performance
• Euro 2004 v England - turned defeat into victory for France
• World Cup 2006 Second Round v Spain - outdid a mightily talented Spanish midfield
• World Cup 2006 Quarter Final v Brazil - classy performance
• World Cup 2006 Semi Final v Portugal - scored the winning penalty
• World Cup 2006 Final - scored a penalty and generally played well till the headbutt

Plenty of games he didn't 'stamp' his personality on, but his record on the whole is pretty impressive IMO.

 

[balaks]

Ehm, which bracket it is if any of Ronaldos is there and Cruyff is not? Some serious underrating here.
Agree on Zidane though.

Well what I mean is that most people would agree that when considering who may be the GOAT the main contenders would be Messi, Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo (Brazil) or C Ronaldo (of modern era anyway). Cruyff is in the next bracket of players for me, along with the likes of Zidane, etc. who although certainly some of the best of their era and generation they are a notch below the ones I just mentioned. Just my opinion of course.

 

[Stocar]

Now that is basically true, but a few years ago I don't think that was the case at all. His general play was never superb but he used to be a lot better than he is now.

Yes, he's a well-rounded footballer and superb goalscorer. But Messi is as good a scorer, and also superb creator/playmaker. Nobody comes close to that.

 

[giorno]

To be fair I remember Chelsea being very physical with the very young Messi and he handled it very well

He tore them to pieces and then got injured and missed the rest of the season

 

[SV_Planegg]

Messi by a country mile. He is the best player to ever kick a ball. He is in a class of his own. Ronaldo R9 comes closest in my opinion and that's only if you consider him at his peak.

That was the point of this thread - to compare their peaks and discuss which peak was higher. Only that I deem their peak performances as pretty much equally impressive, because I factor in the lack of protection for attacking players during Ronaldo's peak as well as the quality of his and Messi's respective team mates. With the leeway defenders had (concerning physical contact) now gone, defending got a lot trickier and defenders are forced to act less assertive/aggressive because the risk of getting booked, sent off, or causing a penalty got significantly higher compared to the 90's and early 00's. Maybe it's stupid to compare the two at all because the game we see today differs quite a lot from the time Ronaldo had his peak years and there's no way to prove that Ronaldo could match Messi's performances in today's game as well as it's impossible to say if Messi could have performed like Ronaldo did during the late 90's. What I'm sure of though is that each of them was/is the most dominating player of their era in world football.

 

[Rozay]

I'm cool with anyone thinking Messi was better than Ronaldo, but definitely not CR7 or Zidane.

 

[balaks]

I'm cool with anyone thinking Messi was better than Ronaldo, but definitely not CR7 or Zidane.

Yeah I'd agree with that - Messi for me is the best there has ever been - Ronaldo at his peak was on a par with Messi but with added explosiveness - the thing that stops him being on par with Messi generally is injuries and length of time at his peak. This is why Messi is so special, his many years of consistently ridiculous performances at a level nobody has come close to, that and his creativity in addition to the goal scoring. Ronaldo was almost certainly the best striker I've ever seen play the game though.

 

[adexkola]

It's more that if he doesnt score he is almost useless, his general play is relatively piir, poor dribbling, average passing etc. But as a rinisher, he is God.

That has only been true for a few years. What is happening is that people are extrapolating this to his entire career post 2007, which is nonsense.

2010-2013 C Ronaldo was brilliant, and no, not just as a poacher.

 

[Rozay]

Yeah I'd agree with that - Messi for me is the best there has ever been - Ronaldo at his peak was on a par with Messi but with added explosiveness - the thing that stops him being on par with Messi generally is injuries and length of time at his peak. This is why Messi is so special, his many years of consistently ridiculous performances at a level nobody has come close to, that and his creativity in addition to the goal scoring. Ronaldo was almost certainly the best striker I've ever seen play the game though.

Yea, summed it up perfectly.

 

[shabin_d_great]

Yep best player ever. He had it all.

Explosiveness, technique, playmaking, finishing, two footedness, flair etc. The perfectly crafted striker. I still watch compilations of his pre injury matches or old matches themselves & always shake my head in disbelief at the things he did.


One of the greatest individual games ever.

Messi and Cristiano would have rolled around and got atleast two players send of for tackles such as in this video.(2:30 as example). The way R9 gets on with the game with no rolling around or dramatic falls is exceptional.. He is a true footballer .. and the best since Maradona...

This video Brought back so much memories... Thanks.. ( Cannot embed video. I am talking about Holland Brazil 98 WC semi final)/

 

[harms]

Well what I mean is that most people would agree that when considering who may be the GOAT the main contenders would be Messi, Maradona, Pele, Ronaldo (Brazil) or C Ronaldo (of modern era anyway). Cruyff is in the next bracket of players for me, along with the likes of Zidane, etc. who although certainly some of the best of their era and generation they are a notch below the ones I just mentioned. Just my opinion of course.

The usual top-5 is Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff and Di Stefano (with Kaizer somewhere near). I'm not even giving you my personal opinion, look up any all-time great list.

Cruyff is the best European player ever and is certainly ahead of both Ronaldos in those lists (although Brazilian could've been better probably)

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

1.Messi
2.Ronaldo
3.Cristiano

In that order. The peak of Ronaldinho Gaucho was far too fleeting. Cristiano easily over him for me.

 

[serghei]

This, I find it laughable that people can say Ronaldo had more to his game than Messi, bar the brute speed, explosivity and two footedness, there is nothing he could that Messi cant, and he's nowhere near Messi as a playmaker, and creator.

And people should also aknowledge that, in the end, it was those attributes that put a lot of pressure on his knee until it broke repeatedly. His style was too phyisical and his body couldn't cope with it.

Messi and Cristiano would have rolled around and got atleast two players send of for tackles such as in this video.(2:30 as example). The way R9 gets on with the game with no rolling around or dramatic falls is exceptional.. He is a true footballer .. and the best since Maradona...

This video Brought back so much memories... Thanks.. ( Cannot embed video. I am talking about Holland Brazil 98 WC semi final)/

Messi doesn't roll around. He is fouled. Sometimes brutally. Maybe you meant Neymar.

 

[Bepi]

Messi is the perfect footballer but Luis Ronaldo was transcendent, more than football, something like Russell Westbrook in today NBA: a prodigious athlete who was immensely takented in one sport but easily deployable elsewhere (athletics, nfl). Ronaldo was a cyborg at his peak and defense was brutal, today it is almost no contact.

 

[BlueCelery]

always felt Ronaldo was the best, although i do accept that it's become extremely hard to make an argument that any footballer was/is 'better' than Messi.

The most impressive thing about Ronaldo for me is the way he 'arrived'. I strongly suspect that he was probably the best player in the world at the age of 14 or so, just undiscovered.

Of all greats, Ronaldo is the only player I can think of who never 'improved'. He simply arrived. He was the best player in the world as a teenager, and remained the best player in the world for most of his career at any point where he could string 10 games together. Messi got better and better over the years. Ronaldo was that good from the beginning, it was wierd. He en maintained that level for years.

I know Messi is a great passer, and probably the best playmaker ever, but Ronaldo was different- the closest thing I've seen to a one-man attack. I don't have too many memories of great link play as such. He just got th ball and was an immediate and direct threat to the opposition goal. And that was by himself. Not because he did one-two's. He didn't need to hold the ball up. Didn't need to bring people into play. He was the attack, all by himself.

It really upsets me that he doesn't get his dues. The game has been so statistically driven for the last decade due to the race between Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi (although most of us know that it has not, at any point in the past 6 or so years been a 'race', Messi is definitely the better footballer). Ronaldo' greatest trick was to drag Messi into a stats fight with him. When throw of them are done, I imagine more normality will resume. Players can score 20-25 a season with a great all-round game and be consigned best in the world, even more than another who scores 32 or so.

This is a truly marvelous post. I too can't wait for the end of the stats driven era where we judge players solely on how many goals or assists they tallied. It's like people refuse to watch games these days.

 

[Vialli_92]

This is a truly marvelous post. I too can't wait for the end of the stats driven era where we judge players solely on how many goals or assists they tallied. It's like people refuse to watch games these days.

yeah especially when scoring 3-4 goals in one game. Most of the goals mean nothing the goals that count the most imo is when your team have their backs truly up against the wall and the other team isn't giving you an inch.

The goals that come out of no where and game changing are really what counts.

Messi vs Bayern in 2015 comes to mind. 2 goals out of no where when his team needed a moment of brilliance he gave them two of them to win the match.

Ronaldo the fantastic goal scorer that he is has not done that sort of stuff for a long time and he's not a game changer as much as people make him to be.

I will say he is the best header of a ball I have ever seen and the best athlete as his determination to get to the top really shows.

I hate this goalscoring statistic era we are in because players like Iniesta who is a game changer often gets overlooked. Same can be said of Modric he is more important than any other player at Madrid yet 90% of fans think Ronaldo is the reason they are that good.

 

[Moonred]

always felt Ronaldo was the best, although i do accept that it's become extremely hard to make an argument that any footballer was/is 'better' than Messi.

The most impressive thing about Ronaldo for me is the way he 'arrived'. I strongly suspect that he was probably the best player in the world at the age of 14 or so, just undiscovered.

Of all greats, Ronaldo is the only player I can think of who never 'improved'. He simply arrived. He was the best player in the world as a teenager, and remained the best player in the world for most of his career at any point where he could string 10 games together. Messi got better and better over the years. Ronaldo was that good from the beginning, it was wierd. He en maintained that level for years.

I know Messi is a great passer, and probably the best playmaker ever, but Ronaldo was different- the closest thing I've seen to a one-man attack. I don't have too many memories of great link play as such. He just got th ball and was an immediate and direct threat to the opposition goal. And that was by himself. Not because he did one-two's. He didn't need to hold the ball up. Didn't need to bring people into play. He was the attack, all by himself.

It really upsets me that he doesn't get his dues. The game has been so statistically driven for the last decade due to the race between Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi (although most of us know that it has not, at any point in the past 6 or so years been a 'race', Messi is definitely the better footballer). Ronaldo' greatest trick was to drag Messi into a stats fight with him. When throw of them are done, I imagine more normality will resume. Players can score 20-25 a season with a great all-round game and be consigned best in the world, even more than another who scores 32 or so.

That's well put and you are quite correct about describing Ronaldo's attributes even though I'd personally choose Messi every day.

 

[Stocar]

Ronaldo (Brazilian) was a marvelous player, unique combination of sheer power and sublime skill, and an icon of a generation. But even at his very peak, was he better than Cristiano Ronaldo? Both players are primarily goalscorers, and even acknowledging an argument that the latter is playing in more favorable context, he simply scores so much more. Ronaldo was a force of nature with a supreme skill set, capable of getting past players in spectacular fashion, and a natural goalscorer. But C. Ronaldo is so effective because he is capable of consistently gaining that bit of leverage on defenders and scoring, due to combination of instinct and off the ball movement with unparalleled athleticism and great technique. It doesn't get the highlights like slaloms and tricks, but it's actually very clever football that requires great skill.

 

[sullydnl]

The usual top-5 is Pele, Maradona, Messi, Cruyff and Di Stefano (with Kaizer somewhere near). I'm not even giving you my personal opinion, look up any all-time great list.

Cruyff is the best European player ever and is certainly ahead of both Ronaldos in those lists (although Brazilian could've been better probably)

Yep. Leaving aside personal opinion, Cruyff is usually placed ahead of the Ronaldos, expecially the Brazilian one.

 

[Infordin]

Not exactly the case in 2010 tho - Samuel, Veron, Masch, Aguero, Di Maria, Tevez, etc...

Samuel injured. Veron was 10 years past his prime. The backline was Romero - Otamendi, Demichelis, Burdisso, Heinze

I wish Messi had picked Spain. There would be no rational reason left for anyone to question why he's the best ever.

 

[Tuppet]

Ronaldo (Brazilian) was a marvelous player, unique combination of sheer power and sublime skill, and an icon of a generation. But even at his very peak, was he better than Cristiano Ronaldo? Both players are primarily goalscorers, and even acknowledging an argument that the latter is playing in more favorable context, he simply scores so much more. Ronaldo was a force of nature with a supreme skill set, capable of getting past players in spectacular fashion, and a natural goalscorer. But C. Ronaldo is so effective because he is capable of consistently gaining that bit of leverage on defenders and scoring, due to combination of instinct and off the ball movement with unparalleled athleticism and great technique. It doesn't get the highlights like slaloms and tricks, but it's actually very clever football that requires great skill.

I agree completely. Ronaldo (Phenomeno) was a brilliant player but his reputation seem to get inflated every year I read about him. Its similar to how injured players sometimes get higher reputation the longer they stay off the field. Ronaldo's outrageous skills on youtube videos doesn't help either, but anyone who watched him (sadly Sporadically due to injuries) after his first two seasons knows that he was not the same player after his first injury spell at Inter.

I remember in 2002 he was mostly thought of as a cautionary tale, as what could happen to even the most gifted players. He was thought of as someone who was immensely unlucky to not challange Pele's throne. Nowhere was he mentioned as one of the greatest player of all time but as someone who could have been one. Yet every year the public opinion (not just cafe, but some of my friends) seem to place him higher and higher. Its like people imagine how great he would have been had he not get injured and decide thats the player everyone is talking about. Placing him higher than the likes of Cruyff or Messi or even Cristiano seem way overboard to me.

To answer the original question, my ranking would be Messi, C. Ronaldo, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho. I would also squeeze the likes of Zidane & Xavi in between C. Ronaldo and Ronaldo.

 

[SirMattBugsby]

Iniesta at his very peak is almost as good as Messi imo, but for the killer touch in front of goal that Messi has.

I don't think many people who saw Iniesta in "God mode" would disagree

Kaka 2007 runs it close too. He went past players like they weren't there and was clinical in front of goal too. But he was probably only at that level for one season.

Finally! Someone mentions Kaka. He was better than Cristiano that year. Not a mean feat.

 

[Tompo]

Messi, Ronaldo and Ronaldinho are most likely the top three. An argument could be made for any of them.

 

[RooneyLegend]

But he didn't. One league title, no UCL in 10+ years playing for Psv, Barca, Inter, Real and Milano is hardly dominating.

His teams didn't dominate, but he did. Football is a team sport and having the best player in the world by a clear distance doesn't necessarily mean the team will win.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Messi
Ronaldo
Cristiano
Xavi
Ronaldinho/Rivaldo
Iniesta/Zidane

 

[RooneyLegend]

Ronaldo (Brazilian) was a marvelous player, unique combination of sheer power and sublime skill, and an icon of a generation. But even at his very peak, was he better than Cristiano Ronaldo? Both players are primarily goalscorers, and even acknowledging an argument that the latter is playing in more favorable context, he simply scores so much more. Ronaldo was a force of nature with a supreme skill set, capable of getting past players in spectacular fashion, and a natural goalscorer. But C. Ronaldo is so effective because he is capable of consistently gaining that bit of leverage on defenders and scoring, due to combination of instinct and off the ball movement with unparalleled athleticism and great technique. It doesn't get the highlights like slaloms and tricks, but it's actually very clever football that requires great skill.

The thing is comparing numbers is just being naive. Why? football was incredibly competitive back then cause no one had a team of Zidane, Ronaldo, Batistuta, Redondo, Keane and Totti in the same side. Yes, a team could have lots of great players but putting together a team of the very best players in every position was an impossibility plus lots of the other sides had players of a similar ilk. we have just gone through an era where 3 teams have made the rest of europes big sides look very mediocre. Hugely lopsided matches with superstars being given the best platform to perform you can possibly think of. Suarez just had a 59 goal season with barely any penalties. Imagine throwing Romario in that team instead of Suarez and what he could do.

Its no surprise that Cristiano's impact on international football is so reduced, similar to messi in that respect.

 

[Stocar]

I think it is more naive to think football went so downhill in terms of quality and balance, that being the main reason behind Messi and Ronaldo's records. Firstly, I just don't see it. If anything, defending is a bit better (less conservative, more systematic and athletic). More importantly, I would say that exactly those two are the main reason Real and Barca are able to score so many goals, because of their superior goalscoring qualities. Messi also as a creator, for example in helping Suarez do exactly the same. Which is also his primary role in Argentina, team he carried to three consecutive finals.