I'm 38 and was fortunate to see Maradonna in his pomp. I'm really honing into that particular period of Messi (12-18 months) when he produced incredible scoring and assisting figures.
Best post-Maradona player (peak level)
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I'm 38 and was fortunate to see Maradonna in his pomp. I'm really honing into that particular period of Messi (12-18 months) when he produced incredible scoring and assisting figures.
The Brazilian Ronaldo at PSV and Barca was unplayable. I'd put him alongside Messi if we're talking peak level.
IMO teams nowadays are not as tactically sound as were teams in the 90's in seria A. You take Capello's Milan, Lippi's Juve and their success domestically and in Europe, coupled with some of the greatest defenders at the time and it makes a big big difference.
Even Simeone's Atletico - which is based on tactical and team play can bring the game onto equal terms with Real and Barca with inferior players due to tactical approach and that's the reason why they are so successful. Rarely you can see that as a normal state of affairs nowadays.
During those years there were some quality managers all round(and some young ones starting their managerial careers) even at the lower ranked teams - Spalletti at Empoli, Malesani at Fiorentina, Zeman(Roma), Boskov(Samp), Eriksson(Lazio), Guidolin, Zaccheroni, etc.
I don't see it currently in La Liga.
I'm trying to avoid all Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo threads, generally. Survival instinct.
I definitely agree on defenders.
@Enigma_87 Yes I agree with that. The most striking thing about Atletico, aside from their over-achievement, is how much their discipline and defensive organisation make them resemble a team from the 1980s or 1990s.
Maradona, pelé, Cruyff and Di Stefano would have had similar production in that period on that team. You'll probably see something comparable in 20 years time or so
Just watched this. Watched it twice, first time to listen to the quotes, second time to watch the footage. My word, he was a force of nature. Beautiful stuff.
That's just an utterly ludicrous opinion if you seriously think Cristiano Ronaldo is "far behind" fat Ronaldo, or Ronaldinio or Zidane, or Maldini.
Cristiano has scored more than 50 goals a season for almost a decade, Luiz Ronaldo has done that.... err...
Heard. Longevity is old
And Nicky Butt
In defence of Pele with respect to those comments people are using them out of context of the time and games they were made reference to. I remember the Nicky Butt comment when it was made and he had just played an outstanding game. There was a point in time however breif when El Hadj Diouf was on fire and if I remember right it was at a WC when pele made the comment about him.
I always think its a shite way to make a point, taking a quote out of context of when and why it was made to then discredit something.
Ronaldo is better than Cristiano in every aspect of the game minus heading. He's level above at their peak. Cristiano is of course the more consistent one but in terms of peak level you'll struggle to find some of the top players/managers that worked/seen both and think otherwise.That's just an utterly ludicrous opinion if you seriously think Cristiano Ronaldo is "far behind" fat Ronaldo, or Ronaldinio or Zidane, or Maldini.
At his peak I'll also take Ronaldinho above Cristiano. Maldini is a tough choice as playing in different position is always hard to compare. As for Zidane - I prefer Cristiano personally.
No. I don't remember teams pressing all over the pitch with such synchronization and intensity as Atletico. Those defenses were much more conservative. People say Atletico resembles teams from that era only because they are recognized as the best defensive team, and often play somewhat classic 4-4-2. But they aren't really defending like, say, typical Italian 90s team at all. Also, their ball retention and quickness of passing is superior to almost anything 90s had produced.
That's just silly. Firstly, Maradona and Cruyff weren't that kind of goalscorers. As for Pele and Di Stefano, from what I can see it was almost like a different sport. Yes, I know, context of time and everything, but really, just look at that defending.
Id agree with you but its not someone collected comments from Pele and built a list, he himself built a list of best living players and that was not based from a recent game, and even if it was it tells you something about Pele. I dont mind Butt personally, at his peak a very good player(doesnt belong to the list though) but Diouf was a brainfart of epic proportions.
If that was the case, how come Luiz Ronaldo has never ever scored 50 goals in a season, something Cristiano has done for 6-7 consecutive seasons? Don't give me the Real Madrid are more dominant excuse. It's not like Luiz Ronaldo played for some crappy sides.
People see Luiz Ronaldo for those 2 seasons 96-98 and proceed to fantasize about what he could have gone on to achieve, but the fact of the matter is, even during his 2 top seasons, he's nowhere near Cristiano's level for the better part of the last decade.
As for Roanldinho, I agree he'd be a debatable choice for people who see football as entertainment rather than driven by results.
The high pressing game was always and inevitably limited before the passback rule was introduced. But even before then, there were some pretty clear examples of teams which did press high, intensely and collectively - Holland in the 1970s, Dynamo Kiev in the 1970s and 1980s, the Soviet Union in the 1980s, Milan in the late 1980s and early 1990s, Juventus in the 1990s. A lot of the English game at the time was based on pressure from the front, which, combined with poor pitches, encouraged a more direct style of play.
The comments he made about those two were made at a specific time.
And? Who is the better Cristiano for you, the one who scored the most (i think it was 2013) at Madrid or United's Cristiano?
They are almost different players, both played an integral part for a successful team. I'd probably say the RM Ronaldo is more efficient.
Efficient? What do you mean by efficient? Winning the league, champions league and scoring like 42 goals a season is not something efficient?
So, for you Cristiano is better than...let's say, Maradona.
I absolutely loved Fat Ronaldo. He was such an influence on so many professional players and kids. So Brazilian Ronaldo for me. I know Messi is a legend of the game himself, but for some reason I'm just bored of Messi.
Efficient as in contributing to the scoring of the most goals.
I think it's incredibly difficult to compare players in different positions, but if given a choice between a 22yo Maradona or a 22yo Cristiano Ronaldo, I'd take Cristiano Ronaldo for United.
Much better defences, better teams in terms of tactics and designated roles.
If you look at his goalscoring rate in a dominant team - that's Brazil national team - 15 goals in WC tournaments. For example Cristiano and Messi have 8 goals combined.
In the Copa - 97' - 5 goals, 99' - 5 goals (top goalscorer with Rivaldo) 10 goals in 2 appearances(was in the squad in 95 as well).
He did score 47 goals for Barcelona in 49 games and also 15-20 goals for the national team at the time.
It's not a question of what if with Ronaldo, the fact is during those 2-3 years he absolutely ripped apart some of the best defences in world football and some of the best sides in the last 30 years coached by one of the best managers(Lippi, Capello and later off his peak our own Fergie). Even after his knee injuries on his day, losing his speed and explosiveness he could absolutely dominate teams on his own, as the mentioned United tie.
I'm sure Messi/Ronaldo would do just as great in different era, but it's really a what if argument having to face Maldini, Desailly, Costacurta, Thuram, Montero, Nesta, etc etc during their peak and coming on top the way Ronaldo did.
It's not always about the stats, otherwise players like Lewandowski, Nistelrooy, Suarez will be in the same league if not better than Ronaldo, which in reality is not true.
I haven't looked through which teams Brazil played against in those competitions, but you really can't compare players based on one off one month long tournaments, otherwise you end up with the conclusion that Klose is one of the best strikers ever.
Cristiano Ronaldo has ripped apart some teams coached by the likes of Guardiola, Mourinho and the likes. Whilst it's true there does seem to be a lack of top quality defenders like Maldini & co in this day and age. Ronaldo only played against that AC Milan defense 2-3 times a season.
It's not always about stats, but when the stats are so overwhelming, it's ridiculous to just brush off with some gross generalization.
Of course, organized pressing existed before. But not at the level of intensity and precision that we see today, of which Atletico are best example. I remember Milan and Juve from 80s and 90s. They never played anything like that. Level of organization and athleticism is much higher today, both in attack and defense. If anyone doubts that football does evolve and get better, take your time and watch some games, decade by decade.
In 98 - goals against Netherlands, brace against Chile (they've conceded as many goals in that game as in the three games in the group stage) and one against Morocco.
In 02 - 2 against Turkey(3rd place in the tournament 1 goal in the groups and 1 in the SF), 1 against China, 2 against Costa Rica, 2 against Germany in the final, 1 against Belgium.
in 06 - 2 against Japan, 1 against Ghana in the 1/8 F's.
So apart from Costa Rica, China and Morocco and Japan - the others were pretty solid teams.
I wouldn't call Guardiola's team a defensive one or one that relied that much on defence compared to the ones Lippi and Capello managed. Not sure which Jose team you are referring to either?
Granted he had a pretty good international record, but as I already pointed out, if you go down that route, the conclusion is Klose was one of the best ever.
06/07 was Cristiano's breakout season and that coincided with stopped Jose's PL winning run. Anyway, like I said in the previous post, Luiz Ronaldo doesn't play against Lippi or Capello managed teams every week, those games come about as often (if not less) as Cristiano facing Simeone sides.
In his only very high scoring season in his career, he didn't face any of those legendary defensive managers, by the time he moved to Inter, his scoring record is anything but extraordinary.
They were, actually, in a way. They played in a lower score era, with rules skewed to favour the defence
As opposed to modern defending?
He didn't granted, but so didn't Messi/Cristiano and Atletico although as good side they are - are far from those already mentioned.
I gave the international record as an example for a dominating team, as neither Barcelona, nor Inter were at club level.
In 96/97 season he did face a Real side managed by Capello with defensively excellent players in Hierro, R.Carlos, Redondo, Seedorf, Panucci, etc and scored against them the only goal at Camp Nou and in the 3-2 win in the Copa Del Rey. Then there was 1 goal against Mauro Silva, Naybet, etc Deportivo side and two hattricks at Calderon and against Valencia at home.
He also missed the last 3 games in the league, while being on a something like 10 games where he scored consecutively.
Of course. Context is everything. Maradona never trained at Napoli, and the few times he bothered to show up at their training ground, it would be 2 hours of bycicle kicks in the mud and trying to hit the bar from 30-50 yards, while the rest of the team worked their socks off. He could never do that today
Btw, ronaldo did lose pace and explosiveness after the injuries. And he was still by far the fastest/most explosive player in the world. He really is a freak of nature. Even now he has the vertical jump of michael jordan ffs
Barcelona and Real Madrid finished with 90 & 92pts in 96/97 (3rd was 77), there were very much dominant in Spain as the same 2 clubs are nowadays (90, 91 last season - granted a bigger gap to 4th).
Didn't Cristiano recently score a hat-trick against Atletico? He also holds the all time record of scoring in consecutive El Clasicos.
IMO you can just about say that peak Luiz Ronaldo in 96/97 was almost the same level that Cristiano has been for most of the decade.
Yes the game on the whole is more athletic. But I'm not convinced that the level of defensive organisation has improved. Serie A in the 1980s and early 1990s often struggled to average more than 2 goals a game. Milan won a league in 1994 scoring just 36 goals - they clearly came up against highly organised defences every week.
The game is faster too now. That's part increased athleticism, part slicker pitches enabling a shorter, sharper style of play on the deck, and part a more ball-playing-friendly refereeing environment. The technical on-the-ball quality of defenders has improved, but there's little evidence to suggest the art of defending is as prized as it was in the 1980s and 1990s.
Saw a video of him, last year, fat and everything, jumping 45 inches vertically. It's actually the reason for the injuries. His leg muscles were so overdeveloped that his knees just couldn't keep up with the stress
“Ronaldo is the hardest attacker I’ve ever had to face. He was impossible to stop.”
“The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo when we faced Internazionale in the 1998 UEFA Cup Final in Paris. He’s an incredible player. I have watched that game on video so many times since then, trying to work out what I did wrong. We lost 3-0 but I don’t think now it was my fault. Ronaldo was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”
— Alessandro Nesta
“The worst experience I ever had was playing against Ronaldo when we faced Internazionale in the 1998 UEFA Cup Final in Paris. He’s an incredible player. I have watched that game on video so many times since then, trying to work out what I did wrong. We lost 3-0 but I don’t think now it was my fault. Ronaldo was simply unstoppable. He is so quick he makes everyone else look as if they are standing still.”
— Alessandro Nesta
Fat Ronaldo is the best player i have seen. The Barcelona fans used to call him the Alien, i Think that says it all really !
Peak Ronaldo if you want a striker.
Peak Messi if you want the best all round player
Peak Ronaldinho if you want to be happy
Peak Messi if you want the best all round player
Peak Ronaldinho if you want to be happy
https://www.reference.com/sports-ac...al-leap-recorded-nba-history-ed9b8529d4ddea5a
The highest vertical leap ever recorded in NBA history is 48 inches achieved by NBA superstar Michael Jordan and Darrell Griffith. Other explosive leapers in NBA history include Julius Erving with a vertical leap of 41 inches, Vince Carter with 43 inches, three-time NBA slam dunk champion Nate Robinson with 43.5 inches, LeBron James with 44 inches and Anthony "Spud" Webb with 46 inches.
I find it incredibly hard to believe this guy has a vertical leap higher than LeBron's record.
titus bramble