Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Inquiries ended | Back in the squad

r0663664 said:
Something is wrong with United, don't we do some background or character check before signing. Don't we get to understand who they mixed with in their social life. Don't we hire a mental doctor to work with them? I cannot understand why millions of dollars are flush down the toilet when these problems surface. No wonder United is in a mess.
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You reckon many clubs go and ask ex birds their opinion eh?
 
NotThatSoph said:
Yes, she said it about Greenwood. You claimed that she said it about Greenwood, Giggs and Antony. Three people! Several people told you you were wrong, put you just keep plowing on with no regard for reality.

Why are you like this?
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I didn't read the replies tbh, knew they would be toxic like yours.
 
GledTheRed said:
I didn't read the replies tbh, knew they would be toxic like yours.
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You don't need to read the replies, you can just stop lying. If you thought she said it about Antony because you were confusing Antony with Greenwood, then you couldn't have known about Greenwood. Yet, you did. You also said it about Giggs, did you think Giggs was Antony, while thinking that Antony was Greenwood, while knowing that Greenwood is Greenwood?

You're a liar, and it's extremely weird.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Ok, so it’s the club liaison officer in the dock, not the medical team? So the risk to the club is what explanation was given to the liason officer for her needing medical care. Which will, I guess, depend on who they talked to. I guess it’s possible that the liason officer actually had a look at the injuries? But that seems completely mad, when you consider the nature of them.
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Surely the club liaison officer would have a few private docs on call and not actually be at the location someone is treated at, in this case a hotel?
 
r0663664 said:
Something is wrong with United, don't we do some background or character check before signing. Don't we get to understand who they mixed with in their social life. Don't we hire a mental doctor to work with them? I cannot understand why millions of dollars are flush down the toilet when these problems surface. No wonder United is in a mess.
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It happens everywhere mate, in all sport, all countries. United obviously gets put in the spotlight more.

I totally hope we are looking into out players etc....as much as possible, but it is hard to predict this nastiness.
 
It is very serious if anyone employed by the club were aware of any injuries to her.

How could you not report to higher up that you got a call to check on injuries to a players partner?
 
lsd said:
It is very serious if anyone employed by the club were aware of any injuries to her.

How could you not report to higher up that you got a call to check on injuries to a players partner?
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This presumes that the reason for her needing a doctor was or needs to be fully disclosed to the club liaison.
 
Laurencio said:
It would be a shock if the doctor didn't go straight to his boss afterwards regardless. He was called to a hotel to treat an injury to a player's girlfriend by the player liason guy? That can't be normal.

The second anyone with any responsibility to the club's financial future heard that, alarm bells would have to ring. There is no way anyone decided to engage in a conspiracy to keep that information from the police.
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I thought doctor has client confidentiality?
 
Ok. Some general principle. Cmiiw lawyers and doctors

1. Doctors as I'm aware do not have any obligation to report patients conditions to the club or even third party under any circumstances unless specific clause is agreed. Such as sports conditions.

2. The girl is non MU entity hence she will have no legally binding obligation to report whatever her condition is to the club. Patients confidentiality

3. If UK doctors is involved, there will be genuine papertrail. When what and potentially the doctor will be called to testify as to what could be the cause of the injury under law, and only under law. Not by some discipline committee panel or investigative journalist.

4. The doctor is appointed by United, so I doubt it's a fake doctor. If he testified under oath the cause of the injury is likely DV it could be pretty damning. Even if Antony dont get caugh on tape, how on earth can he just let someone batter his partner without any news?
 
Laurencio said:
It would be a shock if the doctor didn't go straight to his boss afterwards regardless. He was called to a hotel to treat an injury to a player's girlfriend by the player liason guy? That can't be normal.

The second anyone with any responsibility to the club's financial future heard that, alarm bells would have to ring. There is no way anyone decided to engage in a conspiracy to keep that information from the police.
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It is normal process at sports teams for athletes to get private doctors arranged for them or their family members for all sorts of issues. Like a private concierge who sets things up for them, little perks. This liaison wouldn't be told what the issue was really, maybe roughly like "the girl cut her finger and needs stitches", but that's it. He'd arrange the doctor to come, and the doctor would tend to the girl. This is a normal process.

As Pogue mentioned before, the client confidentiality is complex even if the doctor found DV proof. They would still need permissions from the patient to go to the authorities or anyone else. In all likelihood, Antony and the girl came up with a story for the cut to the liaison person and the doctor, not that hard to explain how you cut your finger, and that was that.
 
Sarni said:
Just having the idea alone that the club may have covered it up is nauseous. These are heavy allegations that are going to be quite hard to prove, or dispel to be honest.
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Pretty easy to dispel, in fact I'd say it's already dispelled. Club firmly denied it. Club stated that a liaison officer set up a private doctor to visit them. That's about that? The doctor wouldn't tell the club anything, there is patient confidentiality.

She may have thought the doctor was affiliated with the club, but they aren't, so it's wrong. Or if they go down the route of liaison person covering it up, which is nonsense as the liaison person is not trained to see signs of DV or make any medical assessments at all. They are literally just calling a doctor to go see them and nothing else. And again, the doctor wouldn't tell them what was happening. And if the girl told the club official, then she would have told the doctor, and the doctor would have told the police, which didn't happen. So if she didn't tell the doctor, she didn't tell the club official either.
 
lsd said:
It is very serious if anyone employed by the club were aware of any injuries to her.

How could you not report to higher up that you got a call to check on injuries to a players partner?
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Because people's health is a private matter between the doctor and the patient, not a thing for a liaison officer to gossip throughout the club. And they likely didn't even know what injury the person had or what the reason was. Likely just knew they needed a doctor (or was given a random explanation for the cut on her finger that needed to be stitched up).
 
GledTheRed said:
She's felt the need to weigh in on ... Antony in recent weeks pretty much saying she'll never support the club again if they aren't fired etc.
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She said no such thing. She said,

Is anyone doing any due diligence on these players?

Heinous stuff described in these accusations.

This time domestic abuse experts need to be involved in the club’s processes.
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Which seems entirely reasonable.
 
bosnian_red said:
Because people's health is a private matter between the doctor and the patient, not a thing for a liaison officer to gossip throughout the club. And they likely didn't even know what injury the person had or what the reason was. Likely just knew they needed a doctor (or was given a random explanation for the cut on her finger that needed to be stitched up).
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The bar for medical staff to give out any medical information without the express consent of the patient is very high. Certainly a cut finger would not be reportable especially as there are many ways to cut a finger that don't involve violence. If the person with the cut finger didn't say anything to the doctor it wouldn't be reportable and the doctor wouldn't even need to consider if it was.

https://transform.england.nhs.uk/information-governance/guidance/consent-and-confidential-patient-information/#:~:text=In common law, there is,disclosed without that person's consent.
https://www.gmc-uk.org/ethical-guid...res-for-the-protection-of-patients-and-others
 
AndySmith1990 said:
She's entitled to her opinion as much as anyone on this forum.
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The irony of those who are slagging her off for daring to have an opinion, because they firmly hold a different view (which they are apparently perfectly entitled to), seems to be entirely missed.
 
glasgow 21 said:
If her lawyers are that good why are they permitting all this information to be regurgitated all over social media platforms.
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Aiming for settle money probably

If theyre dragging United through this mud, it means they dont think they are going to win on court.

As of now, there aren't many witnesess. Club and Anthony's mum will always deny it. Dont know about private doctors
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
It's just fingers with plasters? I can't see anything..
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That was what i thought. Its entirely possible this is some petty revenge, a publicity stunt or a money grab. Presuming the accusations are true on this kind of evidence is quite naiive imo.
 
Scholsey2004 said:
That was what i thought. Its entirely possible this is some petty revenge, a publicity stunt or a money grab. Presuming the accusations are true on this kind of evidence is quite naiive imo.
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The other picture showed a big slice on her finger like one would get with glass.
 
MayosNoun said:
If he done what is suggested he’s a rat.

However unlike Greenwood, where everyone had witnessed the undeniable evidence, there doesn’t appear to be as such with Antony yet.

I see he has already been tried by social media however.

I’ll await judgement until more comes out.
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Yeah, in the Greenwood case the photos and the video werent entirely convincing on their own and could be easily faked or from another cause. It was the inclusion of the audio and Greenwood's failure to deny the accusations that made it difficult to dismiss. In this case he's denied it, theyre clearly not on good terms and there's a clear possibility of a financial motive to the accusations. I think people need to hold judgement on this one.
 
In Rainbows said:
The other picture showed a big slice on her finger like one would get with glass.
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What actually links that to him though? Because having a picture of a cut doesnt automatically mean she was attacked. Even if he was involved that doesnt automatically imply guilt as it could easily have happened by accident or through her own fault. Theres a lot of he said she said going on here and its impossible to ignore the possibility of it being opportunistic or vexatious in nature.
 
Wibble said:
She said no such thing. She said,



Which seems entirely reasonable.
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Her tweet is true. Although on first read the very first sentence could read as if she’s judging Antony as guilty. It comes across almost like “letting people into the country without doing background checks” something normally said by people who believe people coming in are criminals.

I think her tweet could have been written better. The first sentence should have definitely been reworded or omitted.
 
Accusing the club of a cover up is a massive escalation of an already serious allegation, as evident in the act of the club breaking procedural silence to release a counter statement.

If true, this is far worse on the club than the Greenwood situation where they couldn't be directly held culpable for an alleged wrongdoing. If true, I hope everyone guilty, be it player or club, is held accountable for their wrongdoing.

But if the accusation is false and greatly exaggerated for whatever personal benefits the accuser may have wished for, the public nature of this situation will unfortunately be used to cast doubt on many other legitimate cries for help from actual female DV victims whom we know never speak up due to fear of not being believed.

The worst possible outcome is another legal get out of jail free card due to whatever circumvention of the system lawyers find or an out of court settlement before conclusions are found or made public.

My only wish is that whatever the truth, I hope the authorities do find it conclusively.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I'm sure some here have experienced at their work potential low level "cover ups" for a variety of issues big and small : Maybe the company is cutting corners on safety. Or recycling. Someone is drinking on the job. Or passing a bunch of unfounded expenses. Rip off clients. Or collude with clients to profit from subsidies of some kind. Unpaid overtime. Could be things you witnessed or maybe just gossip at the coffee machine.

It's not exactly hard to imagine, assuming there's truth to the allegations, that people at the club knew or had suspicions but decided to keep it on the down low both to protect themselves, the club or to not make waves. Does this pass the threshold of "the club covering it up" even if higher management never got wind of it and didn't order to keep such matters hush ?
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Oh come on, how could they realistically know?

You know that people usually mind their own business and rightly so, A CEO enquiring on the affiliate Doctor what happened can be considered a breach of law and attempt to break confidentiality. It's not something you do for the sake of keeping an eye on your player.

Anyone contacting the doctor asking "What happened" in any formal capacity could be in a lot of trouble
 
Scholsey2004 said:
Yeah, in the Greenwood case the photos and the video werent entirely convincing on their own and could be easily faked or from another cause. It was the inclusion of the audio and Greenwood's failure to deny the accusations that made it difficult to dismiss. In this case he's denied it, theyre clearly not on good terms and there's a clear possibility of a financial motive to the accusations. I think people need to hold judgement on this one.
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Not this again, for the 100x time you can't doctor a damning evidence and not being challenged by the police and the forensic and the lawyer from both sides as knowingly admitting doctored evidence could get you disbared

Stop with this shenanigans.

Stop creating strawman arguments, he did what he did and he got caught on the tape. At least that much we should agree on.

Geez

But the United seen the other evidence? What other evidence? It could be just 3 panel asking Greenwood what happened? Or any other stupid shit they can do to pretend they did their investigations, and worded based on "EVIDENCE" we studied (a.k.a Greenwood Story) we BELIEVE he didn't do it.

Well.. show us the evidence then
 
Gandalf Greyhame said:
Accusing the club of a cover up is a massive escalation of an already serious allegation, as evident in the act of the club breaking procedural silence to release a counter statement.

If true, this is far worse on the club than the Greenwood situation where they couldn't be directly held culpable for an alleged wrongdoing. If true, I hope everyone guilty, be it player or club, is held accountable for their wrongdoing.

But if the accusation is false and greatly exaggerated for whatever personal benefits the accuser may have wished for, the public nature of this situation will unfortunately be used to cast doubt on many other legitimate cries for help from actual female DV victims whom we know never speak up due to fear of not being believed.

The worst possible outcome is another legal get out of jail free card due to whatever circumvention of the system lawyers find or an out of court settlement before conclusions are found or made public.

My only wish is that whatever the truth, I hope the authorities do find it conclusively.
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It's funny it's only united that seems to be afflicted with these dramas.

Meanwhile the accused rapist, Thomas Partey's footballing career didn't even skip a heartbeat
 
Sky1981 said:
Not this again, for the 100x time you can't doctor a damning evidence and not being challenged by the police and the forensic and the lawyer from both sides as knowingly admitting doctored evidence could get you disbared

Stop with this shenanigans.

Stop creating strawman arguments, he did what he did and he got caught on the tape. At least that much we should agree on.

Geez

But the United seen the other evidence? What other evidence? It could be just 3 panel asking Greenwood what happened? Or any other stupid shit they can do to pretend they did their investigations, and worded based on "EVIDENCE" we studied (a.k.a Greenwood Story) we BELIEVE he didn't do it.

Well.. show us the evidence then
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What are on about?

He never once said the Police or Lawyers doctored evidence.

A pointless rant.

What he clearly noted was it is easy for a female to show a picture of cut fingers and lay the blame elsewhere. I’m not excusing anyone here but pointing out it’s not as clear with Antony.

With Greenwood, the whole world hear that evidence and he was clearly in a different position from Antony and couldn’t deny it.
 
r0663664 said:
Something is wrong with United, don't we do some background or character check before signing. Don't we get to understand who they mixed with in their social life. Don't we hire a mental doctor to work with them? I cannot understand why millions of dollars are flush down the toilet when these problems surface. No wonder United is in a mess.
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If he has not been reported for DV before how are you supposed to know it has happened. That is why people get away with it for years, sometimes until it is too late. A lot of abuse is hidden from the public eye. If that allegation came out at the time, yes we should have known about it, if it is only coming out now then that is different.
 
MayosNoun said:
What are on about?

He never once said the Police or Lawyers doctored evidence.

A pointless rant.

What he clearly noted was it is easy for a female to show a picture of cut fingers and lay the blame elsewhere. I’m not excusing anyone here but pointing out it’s not as clear with Antony.

With Greenwood, the whole world hear that evidence and he was clearly in a different position from Antony and couldn’t deny it.
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The original Quoted was Mason Greenwood, not Antony

And no a picture of cut fingers alone is not enough to proof anything, but admission, corroboration, accusation, timing of the evidence, including testimony from the doctor checking on her, the timing of the injury etc.

Please.. as much as we want this to be a false claim, calling people making up evidence without actually having basis to do that is exactly guilty before trial.

If we want to extend the same innocence until proven, extend it to the girl as well.
 
Sky1981 said:
Please.. as much as we want this to be a false claim, calling people making up evidence without actually having basis to do that is exactly guilty before trial.

If we want to extend the same innocence until proven, extend it to the girl as well.
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Surely this is exactly the reason said girl should have only gone to the authourities, rather than to a major newspaper?
 
Sky1981 said:
Oh come on, how could they realistically know?

You know that people usually mind their own business and rightly so, A CEO enquiring on the affiliate Doctor what happened can be considered a breach of law and attempt to break confidentiality. It's not something you do for the sake of keeping an eye on your player.

Anyone contacting the doctor asking "What happened" in any formal capacity could be in a lot of trouble
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The doctor might know the liaison and they talked. Or the liaison could have seen something and talk to his superior, since he was at the hotel.

I'm arguing that it is possible that few people knew, had suspicions or found the situation peculiar and talked, that some might have at the club while "the club" itself didn't.
Is it likely ? I don't know, we don't have enough details. The lawyers of the plaintiff will have to show some work to make that argument.
 
Plastic Evra said:
The doctor might know the liaison and they talked. Or the liaison could have seen something and talk to his superior, since he was at the hotel.

I'm arguing that it is possible that few people knew, had suspicions or found the situation peculiar and talked, that some might have at the club while "the club" itself didn't.
Is it likely ? I don't know, we don't have enough details. The lawyers of the plaintiff will have to show some work to make that argument.
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You know it's against the law right?

You just don't assume medical professional of their stature to gossip around and break confidentiality, it's always assumed they uphold it, although in rarest of rare occasion they didn't.

And no, I don't need all the details, it's called making sound assumption, that UK doctor would abide by their professional conduct and not some 3rd world Doctor
 
Sky1981 said:
You know it's against the law right?
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Laws and regulations are one thing, informal chatting is another, especially since it could have been mostly innocuous. I've seen plenty of regulations not followed, though admittedly at much lower stakes than medical confidentiality. But yes I argued the very same a few pages back : A doctor was not gonna call someone else at United and say "My prognosis : The man is a wife beater !"

However the club liaison was at the hotel, it's not specified he's a medical professional (or I missed it). Maybe he didn't think much of it or maybe he thought something a little weird was going on. We'll have to wait more details on that.

All I am saying is that it's not impossible some people employed by the club had some level of awareness. But the police or the plaintiff will have to make a much more detailed case to support such an assertion.
 
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