Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Inquiries ended | Back in the squad

Big Andy said:
To be fair Amber Heard was fecked because everyone loved Jonny Depp, she had no chance from the start of that trial and the court of public opinion had already decided Depp was innocent. You're not telling me that he's not given her a clout a few times when he's been high on booze and drugs, there was evidence that wasn't admissible in court which basically proved he'd given her a dig on a plane or something I think I read somewhere.
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This is totally wrong. Depp was immediately demonised and deemed guilty when this all first kicked off. Disney fired him and he was blacklisted from the industry. I remember Doug Stanhope (a close friend of his) almost being cancelled because he was the only person to come out early on and say the allegations against Depp were a misrepresentation of the truth. Neither were “innocent” as it was a drug and alcohol fueled codependent abusive relationship. Depp had some redemption after it transpired that Heard was the more abusive of the two, and it’s an important case as it was the first time (at least that I can recall) of a high profile case where primarily the man was being abused, which is something that’s far more common than society is generally willing to admit. It’s personal to me as I have a good friend that suffered some terrible physical and psychological abuse by his wife over a number of years and we could not drag him out of it. It’s important that all abuse is recognised.
 
moses said:
If you weren't inying anything by then there is no reason to mention it.

Well you mentioned a shift and previously society most certainly did oppress women, and that is not hyperbole.
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I said that I believe when society trys to correct an imbalance, it can quite often go extreme on the other end.

It can be racism or sexism or homphobia, anything imbalanced is seldom rebalanced in an objectively balanced manner. I always believe that the intent or hate behind a statement is more important then the statement ( in general).

You need only look at Roald Dahl books being rewritten (to be "appropriate") and Fawlty towers ( parody) being pulled from BBC and having warnings before it. Or people being "cancelled" for expanding out certain topics in a manner that is not exclusively in support of something. Rather then educating on the issues, its all about cancelling, which is kind of childish and counter productive.

I have been on the end of it myself, where people are vehemently against discussion that is not limited to "thats bad" or "thats good". To be anywhere in between or less definitive, is to be considered "an enemy of progression" or somehow supporting (or trying to deflect) bad behaviour.
 
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Big Andy said:
To be fair Amber Heard was fecked because everyone loved Jonny Depp, she had no chance from the start of that trial and the court of public opinion had already decided Depp was innocent. You're not telling me that he's not given her a clout a few times when he's been high on booze and drugs, there was evidence that wasn't admissible in court which basically proved he'd given her a dig on a plane or something I think I read somewhere.
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Clueless
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Does being charged mean that the authorities think there is enough evidence to prosecute ?
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Usually yes. If the prosecutor looking at the case doesn’t feel that there is sufficient evidence to take a case to court then the individual won’t be charged.
 
Guess we'll see if he gets charged or not, usually the point at which clubs make a decision. Nothing will happen until he does though, which is also the right way to go about these issues.
 
Sandikan said:
Helps in one way, but doesn't help when it's a player who cost 80m or so. Unless you can claim on insurance or something!?
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There are insurance against these things if the club takes the premium. I dont know about greenwood but to be fair the amount of these incidents is very rare. Having insurance covering injuries is the most common one

And bear in mind you have to cover quite a few numbers of players
 
Garethw said:
Usually yes. If the prosecutor looking at the case doesn’t feel that there is sufficient evidence to take a case to court then the individual won’t be charged.
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Thanks, I would say thats when the club probably takes action.
 
bosnian_red said:
Guess we'll see if he gets charged or not, usually the point at which clubs make a decision. Nothing will happen until he does though, which is also the right way to go about these issues.
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I’d be more comfortable with the club if they took the same action as his national team. That’s how you should deal with these scenarios. He will be on full pay and that’s our duty to him.
 
Get him suspended so he’s out of the reckoning.
 
peridigm said:
The club might want to start putting a “Domestic Dispute” clause in contracts.
Seriously, you would think there would be clauses around the player being convicted that would allow the club to terminate the contract. Not saying this will apply to Antony one way or the other at this point but it could become an issue down the road.
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termination is not hard..most of these would be ground for termination anyway. But getting the 80M purchase fee is another matter.

You dont buy player

You buy the rights for his old club to write of his remaining contract
 
Butty19 said:
What’s the latest? I saw he’d been axed by Brazil, any other updates or is it all speculation?
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Yes left out of the Brazil squad because of the publicity , no other updates.

IF he is charged then the club has a big decision to make , by the time it gets to court it could take months.

But it is not certain he will be charged yet.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
Do we have any idea how long a police investigation will take ?

And what is she drops her case? We are left in a similar situation to Greenwood as many people have already made up their minds on this.

So will this mean that the club (and all other clubs) should suspend any player ever accused of things in the future ?

I dont know if I agree with that stance. Its not like the video evidence of Cantona Kung Fu kicking that fan where there was no ambiguity. What if a fan accuses a United player of using racist language, do we presume they are guilty and suspend them ?

Where do you draw the line on suspensions based on accusations?
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That would be a reasonable position if not for the Greenwood stuff. We handled that badly, especially wirh the leaks about keeping him, and now this thing pops up in the media. The club has zero good-will on this issue. It's only a matter of time until influential people will start asking questions about the culture at the club and the fitness of upper management.

The fact that Brazil NT axed him over this puts a lot of pressure on the club too.
 
fergosaurus said:
It's not just pictures of taped fingers, have a look for yourself and you will see a deep cut to one of her fingers along with other signs of abuse. I'm not saying Antony is guilty or not, but don't diminish what the pictures show.
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I hadn't seen the others, but in the end it's pictures of injuries which could well have been caused by Antony, but just as easily cold not. Ultimately without evidence it's nothing. We absolutely shouldn't be judging Antony based on anything other than real evidence.
 
Pexbo said:
I’d be more comfortable with the club if they took the same action as his national team. That’s how you should deal with these scenarios. He will be on full pay and that’s our duty to him.
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I dunno, I guess I just don't think clubs/employers should be taking stances on something that is being investigated by the police (and is currently technically he said she said, given Antony has denied it). National team dropped him as it's all just come out I'd say, while it will go on for a couple of weeks before we play again so it's a bit different. If this happened a month ago, I don't think it would've stopped the Brazil call up. Which I guess ties in with Antony's claim that it's been strategically released (not to take his side in general, but that specific point is definitely strategic).

Let the police come to their outcome on if he should be charged, and then suspend him at that point. I don't think legally they can do it differently either, as then he'd be suspended without cause (or just on rumors) if we did something before.
 
Accusations should not stop him doing his job - convictions should.

That was also true of Greenwood by the way. The difference with him was that the recordings ruined his public image to the point nobody wanted him around.
 
Jacob said:
Has a footballer ever gone to jail? I assume any transfer fee paid is gone.
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George Best for Drink Drving and assaulting a police officer.
Duncan Ferguson whilst at Rangers for assaulting a player whilst on the pitch.
Quite a few actually. I tried a cut and paste but Ian Wright has served time, google is your friend.
 
Oh dear, lets skip all the drama this time and just send on loan to Getafe in January.
 
fergosaurus said:
It's not just pictures of taped fingers, have a look for yourself and you will see a deep cut to one of her fingers along with other signs of abuse. I'm not saying Antony is guilty or not, but don't diminish what the pictures show.
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Unfortunately social media, private pictures etc. can all be manipulated by individuals with an ulterior agenda, which is why most judicial systems treat them as having limited evidentiary value, rules of evidence exist to protect both parties.

Not saying Antony is guilty or innocent, or that his ex has fabricated anything but on balance it has to be considered, Antony is wealthy there are many examples of opportunistic allegations against wealthy individuals, which is why I am only interested in the outcome at trial should there be one, not speculation in the media.

It is why I also hate anything like this being in the public eye, on numerous occasions the police have ruined careers and reputations by releasing information about people in the public eye which have later been disproven or not lead to any charges let alone prosecution and conviction, if Antony is guilty string him up, but if he is innocent then whoever leaked the information to the press should be held accountable, but that doesn't happen.
 
Zed 101 said:
Unfortunately social media, private pictures etc. can all be manipulated by individuals with an ulterior agenda, which is why most judicial systems treat them as having limited evidentiary value, rules of evidence exist to protect both parties.

Not saying Antony is guilty or innocent, or that his ex has fabricated anything but on balance it has to be considered, Antony is wealthy there are many examples of opportunistic allegations against wealthy individuals, which is why I am only interested in the outcome at trial should there be one, not speculation in the media.
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Which is exactly why I haven't accused Antony of anything.
 
I do think that were going to have to come up with instructions from the fa at least...if. not a Europe wide, preferably worldwide decision about what.clubs. do when in these situations...a faint hope, probably
 
Dirty Schwein said:
True. Giggs trained at the Splinter Cell academy.

SAF never put a player above the club and that would feel quite out of character for him.

I have no idea but as a bunch happened in Brazil, it can probably be difficult to find.


Exactly my point. The club can't be held responsible if hidden stuff surfaces later. I doubt Manchester United saw information that Antony been beating his partner and thought "hmm... Yes! Let's sign this guy, he has fight in him!"

Most likely they just didn't know.
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Let's be honest, these instances are extremely rare. Or at least stuff that reaches the public domain is anyway.

If you have a proper long term plan and structure in place to scout players and do all the due diligence and I include in that, checking their backgrounds, examining their off field behaviour, monitoring their social media etc. Then there may be red flags that pop up that would alert you to possible future problems.

Obviously there are certain unkowns, but for the most part being a full and thorough assessment of their playing abilities and character and personality away from the pitch should go a long way to avoiding spending huge amounts on players who just don't have the right personality and mentality to cope with playing for a top club.
 
People need to realise these are not new accusations and were already being investigated by the police. Alleged victim now has gone to media outlet with accusations and whatever proof she gave to police before this. Only the “club doctor” part is added this time which was not reported when this issue came into the news last June.

Think post Greenwood incident, they decided to leak it to make it a social media circus. If the information was already available to police, what is the need of leaking to media? Plus whatever is leaked, actually makes no difference at all to her claims. There is no smoking gun evidence in this at the moment.


Antony is 22 and young couples having verbally abusive relationship and breakup is not anything new. Only thing she needs to prove is physical assault which Antony denies and despite what the media outlet claims, he is not apologising for hitting her in any of the chats they published, and no other evidence which is presented is even remotely proving that Antony is guilty.

As someone else pointed out, Greenwood image was destroyed by that audio. There is no parallel between these 2 cases at the moment at least. If in Greenwood case only images were published, nothing would have happened to him as well.
 
Zed 101 said:
Sorry if it came across as my criticising you, I was just using your post to continue that conversation
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Not at all. I fully agree with your post, was just clarifying that I wasn't jumping to conclusions and accusing Antony.
 
I am sick and tired of this, and yet we have to go through everything again with Antony this time, after we are finally done with Greenwood.
 
No surprise she's flapping her gums again. Her ego must be sky high considering how the club bowed to her.
 
I truly cannot stand Rachel Riley. Nothing to do with United, she's just a nasty piece of work. Why do we keep having to hear her opinion and why is it seen as more important than any other woman's viewpoint?
 
How we handled Greenwood set a precedent and it's exactly why I wanted him to stay if he didn't get convicted by a judge. The club has now become the judge for every case like this and as long as every PL club doesn't do the same, we will be left behind because we have to sell every player that breaks a law. Its very naive to think only a few players have done sh*t like this and that's exactly why you should leave it to the police/courts/judge whatever. What happens when one of our players gets caught drunk driving for example? Is that better or worse than hitting your girlfriend? Do we sell him?
 
hobbers said:
Are there any pictures showing injuries other than a cut on her scalp and cut on her finger?
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No. And bunch of whatsapp chats where they had heated discussion but it’s nothing unusual. This case is not as strong ( and i stress this again “at the moment”) as it is being made out to be.

People should actually refrain labelling either side at the moment. Evidence to prove either thing is not enough but it is tilted towards Antony being innocent at the moment

Audio is the one she is describing the events. It’s nothing like Greenwood case
 
miked99 said:
I truly cannot stand Rachel Riley. Nothing to do with United, she's just a nasty piece of work. Why do we keep having to hear her opinion and why is it seen as more important than any other woman's viewpoint?
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The Sun wants you to see it so she gets a slagging mainly, I think.

She posted it on her Twitter to people who choose to follow her, it's the Sun who is BLASTING it at us.
 
Duafc said:
The Sun wants you to see it so she gets a slagging mainly, I think.

She posted it on her Twitter to people who choose to follow her, it's the Sun who is BLASTING it at us.
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I don't think any celebrity is naive enough to think any comment they make via Twitter/social media on a contentious issue will remain exclusively on their timeline and won't be picked up by the papers. Not in this day and age.
 
The Mitcher said:
Ched Evans.
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I wouldn't use Ched as an example of innocence to be honest.

I saw the video of that girl being walked into the hotel and she was in no condition to agree to anything even with the guy she was with at the time
 
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