Tony Adams and Duncan Ferguson also.
Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Inquiries ended | Back in the squad
- Thread starter laughtersassassin
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Tony Adams and Duncan Ferguson also.
Should people really be speculating here on domestic abuse charges? Make this a tweet only thread, let the courts and club handle this.
jesus, id happily take 10 more Sancho like "scandals" over Antony and Greenwood
Imply means indicate by suggestion. That's what I took your post as. Why say it otherwise?
I'm not attacking you, I'm literally attacking the post.
Society hasn't shifted to oppress men. By any strech.
Equality is a loss for some. That's just maths.
What happened to the "no d*ckhead policy"?
Or did the recruiting team pick up the wrong pile of papers after they'd been sorted
I think there's a debate to be had about whether football clubs should also look into "character" in deeper ways, be held to a higher educational standard (since Greenwood was Academy since childhood) and if it's even part of their mission. Raises issues about privacy, enforced conformism, etc... but the statu quo of "well, we're only doing the football part, innit ?" can be a little frustrating, even if I don't know how to proceed forward from there.
you think you read somewhere? brilliant that must be evidently fact then.
But I didnt imply the accuser was framing Anthony ? My stance is and has been that we dont know enough about the case.
If every accusation against a man is presumed honest, then society has shifted to presume men are guilty. I dont like the "oppress men" phrase as its hyperbolic and presume alot.
Can this club catch a break..
Maybe if they properly vetted and performed due dilligence on players we wouldnt have this.
We are getting everything we deserve here with the absentee owners doing nothing but taking from the club.
FFS..
I think the main problem in here is that we have such low standards when it comes to celebrities and this is getting out of hand.
Both, Heard and Depp were abusers in their relationship. Depp
hit her, said he would kill her and joked that then he would have sex with her corpse.
This applies to MG and Antony, too. Low standards, no background checks, we’re happy to support the talent but turn a blind eye to their questionable actions. If the story of the club involvement is true, this is despicable. I want to believe Antony’s situation can be resolved in a sensible manner but I keep losing my hope as it seems we’re doomed as human beings in general.
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How can a club genuinely vet domestic abuse? As far as I'm aware neither Greenwood or Antony have any record of allegations or suspicious behaviour from within the club, so how could they vet something they've no idea about behind closed doors.
True its probably hard to vet such a private thing, but United appear to have a disproportionate amount of players (at this time) who are accused of this. You can say the same with general bad attitudes that turn to apathetic performances. Why is that ?
Well yeah, you're making the same point as me really so I agree to an extent. But whether we discuss it or not, the club has to take some form of action. And there's no point talking about the motives of someone you don't know and will never meet in your life, especially under such accusations. The fact she could be a victim means its wise to tread carefully. Should go without saying really...
This is an interesting/uncomfortable element of the case.
What does the club do ? So lets say they suspend him, what if it takes months or years for the case to play out ? And then if she drops the case or he comes back innocent, what has been gained by suspending him other then appearing to presume him guilty? His career could be ruined by a lenghty suspension of a potentially innocent man.
I dont know, if I knew he was guilty (or the club knew based on the probability of the facts available to them) , I would want him out now but I also do not know what is the morally correct thing for the club to do. I just cant subscribe to a "guilty until proven innocent" stance, it just doesnt sit well with me.
You’re spot on. You cant. There are plenty of incredibly friendly and charming people that are monsters behind closed doors.
I would never have suspected that Giggs was like it. He always came across as very chilled out and laid back.
Dropped from the National team over allegations now
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/05/...ropped,Brazilian football confederation (CBF).
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/05/...ropped,Brazilian football confederation (CBF).
I'm not sure how football clubs can vet personal character so minutely to tick a box on issues as sensitive as this. Ryan Giggs we all know is a scumbag but he also sort of cancels out the idea that Ferguson's judgement of character was so profoundly important to success unless he really was oblivious to the behaviour. So if you were oblivious to someone in-house how can you vet from the outside.
Don't think we've any option but to suspend him until the police investigation is complete.
Im guessing he’ll get the Greenwood treatment if he’s charged. Suspension on full pay until the trial.
If he isn’t charged then there are no grounds for suspensions etc.
The Greenwood case was a bit more unique given the level of evidence made public, so maybe not the direct comparison to make despite proximity of timing.
At what point did Mendy stop playing for City?
At what point did Mendy stop playing for City?
Helps in one way, but doesn't help when it's a player who cost 80m or so. Unless you can claim on insurance or something!?
Dangerous to believe any side without knowing everything.
But it does look like they had a horrible relationship and split for both their sake.
Then there is also "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" to consider....maybe... maybe not
They won't do that. Surely they'll only suspend him if any charges are brought?
Do we have any idea how long a police investigation will take ?
And what is she drops her case? We are left in a similar situation to Greenwood as many people have already made up their minds on this.
So will this mean that the club (and all other clubs) should suspend any player ever accused of things in the future ?
I dont know if I agree with that stance. Its not like the video evidence of Cantona Kung Fu kicking that fan where there was no ambiguity. What if a fan accuses a United player of using racist language, do we presume they are guilty and suspend them ?
Where do you draw the line on suspensions based on accusations?
I agree with @Garethw in that I think that's how we'll approach it and how it probably should be approached.
There's another factor at play though that I think will muddy the waters, which is the investigation in Brazil. And to make it worse, I suspect that UK authorities might struggle to make a case if the evidence is limited, but it feels like the case in Brazil might have more clout. So then what do we do? He could continue playing here for anther year or two whilst his character is torn apart in Brazil and he's ultimately found guilty. That's probably the second worst outcome for the club.
You can’t vet for someone’s private life. It’s just really bad luck to have happen not only once but twice in such a short space of time if these allegations are true after what happened with Greenwood. The club shouldn’t have to play the role of parents for players.
I agree with the idea that contracts should have some kind of general conduct clause in them due to being in such a prominent position that we can have the ability to terminate their contract if they bring the club into disrepute with criminal matters, and mitigate any unfair dismissal counterclaim.
I agree with the idea that contracts should have some kind of general conduct clause in them due to being in such a prominent position that we can have the ability to terminate their contract if they bring the club into disrepute with criminal matters, and mitigate any unfair dismissal counterclaim.
This season is fecked.
I agree, we need to put termination clauses to our contract for such cases.
I agree, we need to put termination clauses to our contract for such cases.
Antony has denied the allegations twice and I'm not sure the evidence is strong enough for him to be suspended before the investigation is complete. From the translations I've seen, the messages he sent are aggressive but reads to me more that he's treated her very badly rather than abused her in a physical way. That's not to say it's morally acceptable but from what I've seen it's still he said, she said type stuff and as disturbing as it all is, I think as long as he claims his innocence, there isn't damning evidence released and the police haven't charged him then I think he's fine to continue. Should any one of those things change then I think we're looking at a suspension.
Does being charged mean that the authorities think there is enough evidence to prosecute ?
If you weren't inying anything by then there is no reason to mention it.
Well you mentioned a shift and previously society most certainly did oppress women, and that is not hyperbole.
The club might want to start putting a “Domestic Dispute” clause in contracts.
Seriously, you would think there would be clauses around the player being convicted that would allow the club to terminate the contract. Not saying this will apply to Antony one way or the other at this point but it could become an issue down the road.
Seriously, you would think there would be clauses around the player being convicted that would allow the club to terminate the contract. Not saying this will apply to Antony one way or the other at this point but it could become an issue down the road.
Well no, at this moment all there is are allegations. Though if there is enough evidence for him to be charged, he should be suspended.
Honestly, the depths at which our club can sink to amazes me year on year. You think it can't possibly get any worse, but somehow it does.
What’s the latest? I saw he’d been axed by Brazil, any other updates or is it all speculation?
Absolutely. Not sure how this one is best approached. I took a hard stance on MG based on the evidence available, but this is a bit harder to prove. But at the same time, it's equally as bad if it is true.
It's not just pictures of taped fingers, have a look for yourself and you will see a deep cut to one of her fingers along with other signs of abuse. I'm not saying Antony is guilty or not, but don't diminish what the pictures show.
No other updates. I imagine we might just get a statement from United that they're monitoring the situation but I don't think there will be any significant updates until the police decide what to do.
The pictures cannot be diminished but it's more about linking Antony to it.
WhatsApp logs and phone records that corroborate an accusation may help build a case I imagine. It can also help disprove it.
Of course. Just pointing out that there are more graphic pics out there than just a taped up finger.