Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Inquiries ended | Back in the squad

[Sandikan]

We should be contacting the women's team to see how we should proceed with this issue.

As long as he plays well for the team eh, that's all that matters right?

 

[Moston Red]

They just need a clause that if you're involved in "conduct unbecoming" (rape, domestic violence, racist remarks etc) that brought negative influences to the club you'll be terminated without penalty and be forced to compensate the remaining of your contract.

Normally they have this clause for every high profile endorsement

This absolutely needs to happen.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

If the alleged events occurred during his time at Ajax, I wonder if we would be due some sort of payment in liability? I assume not but if I bought a car for example with a pre existing condition which reduced it's value heavily once it was discovered, I would go back to the garage and get some of the money back. Is there precedent for that line of thinking here?

 

[golden_blunder]

Leaving the violence aside
IF he has threatened to kill himself and had to be locked in by his mum, that suggests he needs a lot of help

 

[Lyng]

Why are you assuming he's guilty? I wouldn't want him near the club if he's guilty, but it's not guilty until proven innocent. How many times have footballers been falsely accused now?

I believe the victim.

 

[Sandikan]

You suspect this will be swept away as it usually is with celebrities etc. And obviously we don't know the actual truth.

But it does feel unsavoury to even hear such allegations.

 

[kafta]

These situations are so tricky, because if he's innocent or the case goes way, in the end its the court of public opinion that will sentence him. And as mentioned, if the allegations are dropped, we'll have an uprising on the different treatment as opposed to that Mason got.

If he's guilty, feck him. But i don't want to assume until its proven.

 

[Cassidy]

I believe the victim.

Because?

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I believe the victim.

Why?

 

[Cassidy]

If the alleged events occurred during his time at Ajax, I wonder if we would be due some sort of payment in liability? I assume not but if I bought a car for example with a pre existing condition which reduced it's value heavily once it was discovered, I would go back to the garage and get some of the money back. Is there precedent for that line of thinking here?

Alleged to have happened whilst he was at United too

 

[Cassidy]

Leaving the violence aside
IF he has threatened to kill himself and had to be locked in by his mum, that suggests he needs a lot of help

That could be called coercive behaviour to be honest

 

[Lyng]

Because?

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

 

[Slevs]

If the alleged events occurred during his time at Ajax, I wonder if we would be due some sort of payment in liability? I assume not but if I bought a car for example with a pre existing condition which reduced it's value heavily once it was discovered, I would go back to the garage and get some of the money back. Is there precedent for that line of thinking here?

One could argue that the pre-existing condition (if it exists that is) would not hamper his ability to kick a ball and perform the tasks for which you paid him/the other club for. So logically it would be a no.

 

[Plastic Evra]

People are assuming he's guilty when there's no real evidence. Why?

Because a footballer being more than a bellend, having terrible relationships or abysmal judgement is not exactly that hard to believe with all of the precedent we have.

And the allegations are pretty extensively detailed from the potential victim, pending corroboration and legal confrontation it does count as evidence, if not material.

Not making a determination on Antony from that, but can't exactly ignore it either.

 

[Slevs]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

Man what?
I don't even. Okay.

 

[Cassidy]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

Have you looked into the victims allegations? Or you are just choosing to believe them because they are a victim?

This is an honest question, I want to know why you believe the allegations and if you have scrutinised the evidence at all, or you are just saying well the person is the victim to it must be true

 

[SweDevil]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

On the other side of this, many more will falsely accuse people of things they didn't do because of people like you.

 

[sullydnl]

Alleged to have happened whilst he was at United too

Indeed as per the initial reports at least, she was treated by Manchester United doctors following one incident.

 

[Sky1981]

If the alleged events occurred during his time at Ajax, I wonder if we would be due some sort of payment in liability? I assume not but if I bought a car for example with a pre existing condition which reduced it's value heavily once it was discovered, I would go back to the garage and get some of the money back. Is there precedent for that line of thinking here?

Only if you asked for it in the purchase contracts. Other than that no bueno

 

[Santos J]

Leaving the violence aside
IF he has threatened to kill himself and had to be locked in by his mum, that suggests he needs a lot of help

Not necessarily if you mean in the "potentially suicidal" sense, it's a pretty common threat for someone being emotionally abusive towards someone

 

[Lyng]

Have you looked into the victims allegations? Or you are just choosing to believe them because they are a victim?

This is an honest question, I want to know why you believe the allegations and if you have scrutinised the evidence at all, or you are just saying well the person is the victim to it must be true

I have and I think the details and what is there seems pretty damning. Enough at least to not be ignored or swept under the carpet.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

If you presume every alleged crime is fact by virtue of the fact it’s said, then many innocent men will pay a high price.

Did you support “victim” Amber Heard by default when she turned out to be the abuser of Johnny Depp? There’s been little compensation for Depp and no consequences for heard , equally I want woman who lie to get jail time.

I don’t support trial by media , default to acting like the accused is guilty. It’s a stupid mob mentality and an extremely dangerous development.

It’s easy to throw mud and destroy a persons reputation.Even if Anthony is proven innocent his career could be over. That’s shameful.

 

[Cassidy]

Because a footballer being more than a bellend, having terrible relationships or abysmal judgement is not exactly that hard to believe with all of the precedent we have.

And the allegations are pretty extensively detailed from the potential victim, pending corroboration and legal confrontation it does count as evidence, if not material.

Not making a determination on Antony from that, but can't exactly ignore it either.

The question was why are people assuming guilt, not why are people not making a determination and not ignoring the allegations

 

[Foolsgold21]

If it was your sister, mum or daughter you wouldn't immediately assume they are lying.

Similarly because the perpetrator plays for your football club, it doesn't make him innocent.

Very serious and horrible claims which absolutely need to be thoroughly looked into.

 

[Lyng]

If you presume every alleged crime is fact by virtue of the fact it’s said, then many innocent men will pay a high price.

Did you support “victim” Amber Heard by default when she turned out to be the abuser?

I don’t support trial by media , default to acting like the accused is guilty. It’s mob mentality and an extremely dangerous development.

It’s easy to throw mud and destroy a persons reputation.Even if Anthony is proven innocent his career could be over. That’s shameful.

Amber Heard is a good example. What she did was despicable but until the trial I chose to listen to her. Then the trial came and everything was cleared up.
The same here. If the alleged victim is lying it will get cleared up and Antony will not lose his career.
But if we start not believing victims and evidence simply gets swepped aside we end in a very different situation.

 

[Sky1981]

Oh... by the way, for people who thinks it's easy to take a swipe on celebrities with lots of money. It's not

In order for one to accuse someone they need lawyers, evidence, they need hours and hours of legal advice which we know doesn't come cheap. It's easier for a 200k / week footballer to have the best lawyers that could grill you to find fault in every little thing you say, and could really make life hell for you.

Even Amber Heard can't get away with lying in the court.

 

[stw2022]

If he produces a photo of a bruise and claims she did it, @Lyng would presumably demand her arrest and dismissal from her job

 

[SirScholes]

If it was your sister, mum or daughter you wouldn't immediately assume they are lying.

Similarly because the perpetrator plays for your football club, it doesn't make him innocent.

Very serious and horrible claims which absolutely need to be thoroughly looked into.

That’s because I know their character

there are some women I know who I would question

 

[Rista]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

How does believing them change anything? Surely "believe victims" should only mean take the case seriously and perform proper investigation. Not literally believe by just taking their word for it.

 

[Oranges038]

Conduct unbecoming is just a blanket terms, normally reserved for the absolute scandal as you can't list the definitive over a contract.

And yes, normally innocence until verdict is uphold.

Greenwood case is an outlier where the evidence is leaked and pretty damning people knew what he does full well, with or without the prosecutions.

In Greenwood's case the audio was so damning, once it got out, there was no coming back. But even still, the club couldn't terminate because he wasn't convicted of any crime.

Conduct unbecoming just couldn't cover false accusations, which would only be proved once the investigation and any subsequent court case is completed.

Antony is being investigated in Brazil, until that investigation is completed and he is either charged or cleared then I don't think we should be as quick to jump to the end phase of just assuming he's guilty and getting rid of him.

 

[golden_blunder]

Not necessarily if you mean in the "potentially suicidal" sense, it's a pretty common threat for someone being emotionally abusive towards someone

Hadn’t thought of that. Good point

 

[stw2022]

Oh... by the way, for people who thinks it's easy to take a swipe on celebrities with lots of money. It's not

In order for one to accuse someone they need lawyers, evidence, they need hours and hours of legal advice which we know doesn't come cheap. It's easier for a 200k / week footballer to have the best lawyers that could grill you to find fault in every little thing you say, and could really make life hell for you.

Even Amber Heard can't get away with lying in the court.

You don't. You'll need that if it goes to court. Making an allegation then giving brave media interviews to coincide coincidentally with an international fixture, costs surprisingly little.

Convinced nobody in this case wants a trial. She'd be aware media interviews likely actively undermine chance of legal prosecution.

 

[BootsyCollins]

If he produces a photo of a bruise and claims she did it, @Lyng would presumably demand her arrest and dismissal from her job

Did he say that?

I take it as he says if that happened, he would belive Antony and would like to see it go to trial where he (Lyng) can be proven right or wrong on his initial belives.

 

[Sky1981]

In Greenwood's case the audio was so damning, once it got out, there was no coming back. But even still, the club couldn't terminate because he wasn't convicted of any crime.

Conduct unbecoming just couldn't cover false accusations, which would only be proved once the investigation and any subsequent court case is completed.

Antony is being investigated in Brazil, until that investigation is completed and he is either charged or cleared then I don't think we should be as quick to jump to the end phase of just assuming he's guilty and getting rid of him.

When it comes to gray areas, off course Manchester United if they wish and consult their teams of lawyers can pursue this clause.

It'll be up to the court arbitration, but among the team of lawyers they can decide if it's enforceable or not.

And I'm not talking about Antony, this one is still ongoing trial. It's slightly different than Greenwood's case

 

[Zlatattack]

Because if we stop believing the victims we end up in a very bad situation where victims dont dare to come out.

Could we just wait for a criminal investigation first? Maybe at least let someone be charged.

All people are capable of commuting abuse - all people are capable of lying.

 

[stw2022]

Did he say that?

I take it as he says if that happened, he would belive Antony and would like to see it go to trial where he (Lyng) can be proven right or wrong on his initial belives.

He'd believe the victim. Which would be Antony in this particular accusation.

 

[HackeyC]

This absolutely needs to happen.

It would be absurd unless pay was multiples of the fees. Today a player gets £10m per year for 5 years but a club chooses to pay £80m for them. One accusation, even if not legally proven, and you are bankrupt. Nobody is taking that contract.

Clubs would be best to agree a principle of proportional compensation from the selling team as standard within Uefa in the event of a player acting in a disreputable manner.

 

[Obligatory Nigel]

I believe the victim.

You don't yet know that she is indeed a "victim"

Amber Heard is a good example. What she did was despicable but until the trial I chose to listen to her. Then the trial came and everything was cleared up.
The same here. If the alleged victim is lying it will get cleared up and Antony will not lose his career.
But if we start not believing victims and evidence simply gets swepped aside we end in a very different situation.

How about taking a stance of neither believing nor not believing and wait to see what comes of an investigation lead by those whose job it is to investigate? That is to say don't jump to conclusions as you are. Lets hope you never end up on jury service you'll be shouting GUILTY before the defendant has taken the oath.

 

[BootsyCollins]

He'd believe the victim. Which would be Antony in this particular accusation.

Exactly. So you just added the part where he said he would like her to be arrested and dismissed from her job then?

 

[Sky1981]

You don't. You'll need that if it goes to court. Making an allegation then giving brave media interviews to coincide coincidentally with an international fixture, costs surprisingly little.

Convinced nobody in this case wants a trial. She'd be aware media interviews likely actively undermine chance of legal prosecution.

No they're not.

If you don't have a case and it's clearly a made up allegations you can be sued for libel, which I think celebrities would take seriously.

Normally there will be a case behind all these, but the why / what could be a little murky.

Off course nobody wants a trial because it's bad for all parties and if the hush up money is small you just take it as bad luck. But if you're accused of serious crime such as rape and violence sex you can be sure they won't take this lying down.