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2023-24 Performances


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4.6 Season Average Rating
Appearances
38
Goals
3
Assists
2
Yellow cards
6
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He’s still the best option on the RW despite his struggles with decision making and poor short passing.

If he does not improve, a fit Amad will be the best next option on the right. I also like Pellistri, but a loan might be better for him.
 
One of the big issues with the start to this season is ten Hag outlined how limp the attack is and how much they need to improve in preseason, and yet, they’ve been even worse.

You have more pressure on you as a manager in a second season because the team is more yours than your predecessors and whatever you’ve achieved in the first season is supposed to be built upon. We’ve come out this season looking lost, individually and collectively - the pressure is on because we’ve set up in a system we’re not equipped for and it has looked shockingly poor; our players aren’t fit, either and we actually look like the most unfit and unprepared team in the entire league right now.

A huge, huge part of the system that ten Hag is trying to implement relies on the wings bringing literally (even Onana, as our extra outfielder) the whole team both into play and up the pitch as a unit. Everything depends on the flanks driving with the ball, holding it up, and then passing it on to a teammate whilst everyone else catches their bearings in their advanced positions. Garnacho has been point, but that is just too much responsibility and pressure to place on a kid, especially one as wet behind the ears as he is, so he has to be cut slack and should be quietly removed from the team as a starter. Out on the right flank, Antony is essentially the wave that follows behind the point and the striker and his role is vital because he is found specifically for the task of holding the ball up and then progressing it subtlety and precisely; all those short passes inside are supposed to rapidly chain, but they are reliant on each contributor completing their task… Antony is preventing a number of these intended plays by failing the initial progressive pass, a pass that is made as easy for him to make, per the system where he should have a rapidly advancing and encroaching #8/#10 supporting as intended to provide the option for this relatively easy action.

If your point of attack is good enough, you can circumvent a lot of the build up as he preoccupies so many players by himself, and theoretically, even if he loses the ball whilst attempting to be so brazen and daring, he’s doing it in an advanced position way up the pitch where the consequences are minimal as everyone behind him is still compact and advancing as a unit. Garancho failing at this task is a mild annoyance, but more a write off for him than the team. The playmaking flanker, however… well he’s supposed to be able to bring others into the play; they rely on not only his hold up, but his competence with ball progression to break their own ranks and trigger the next phases of the attack - if he loses the ball cheaply, it impacts a lot more of the team as the attacking midfielders on his inside will have run beyond him, the flanking full-back is supposed to also look to go beyond him and everyone left behind the ball has moved a good 10-15 yards upfield in a compact unit. This is why when Antony loses the ball we flail so much because so many more players are exposed as they are then forward-thinking and not at all in a position to turn heel back toward their own goal - he’s really not afforded the same amount of unforced errors as the player tasked with the biggest responsibility to progress us as a unit.

Playmakers knit play first and foremost and the bemoaning his goal output or even his assist rate should be secondary and tertiary concerns - if he was our glue, the vast majority of his job brief would be fulfilled with the goals and assists then being very welcome bonuses. It is the biggest worry of all that he isn’t making the right decisions or executing what should be easy passes. He is in fact killing a lot of our attacks and even our intent because of the interceptions and the fallout from them. Bruno has the same predicament in field in some ways, and he too puts a lot of weight bearing load on his teammates by not being able to retain the ball.

We have two other playmaking widemen in the squad who have their own approach to the same tasks, but imo a far clearer head and competence with their utilisation and manipulation of the ball. They aren’t going to lose the team possession with the frequency Antony does because they are technically superior and capable. There’s quite an irony to the vaunted tracking back and tenacity Antony is praised for; it’s admirable when it’s purely about the opposition attacking us through their own skill and creativity, but a curious affair when it’s down to him that they’ve been gifted the ball in the first place. This is another trait he shares with Bruno, interestingly enough.

A goal or an assist is often seen as the be all and end all of what a forward should contribute on here - terrible game, but scored? That’s a pass, type thing. But goals and assists are far more likely to dry up or be streaky than rock solid playmaking and ball retention for the team; it’s your wing-forward and strikers that can be judged primarily on goals; your playmaking type of wide-man is supposed to be the biggest dependency in terms of keeping his team safe whilst constantly probing and hurting the opposition from a position he’s difficult to really nail in. Iniesta, when played wide was the epitome of what a player can do for his team as a wide attacker whilst not scoring or directly assisting much himself. David Silva, also. Bernardo Silva from active players also comes to mind. @Skills the goal contribution stats were not that great of an issue for me personally, and still aren’t, but the use and care for the ball has really been an increasing cause for concern, even more so this season than last because this new system is much more reliant on wide men doing their jobs to enable others to do theirs. It’s a house of cards with Jokers propping everything up at the moment.
 
One poster said leaked scouting emails on Reddit showed scouts were against his signing. The club never learns
It must be so frustrating for the scouts because they are the target of so much abuse: "why did we sign Maguire/AWB/Antony etc" "what are our scouts doing" " we should sack our scouts and sign Brighton's"... the reality is that we probably have brilliant scouts who simply aren't being listened to at all.
 
Is it absolutely unimaginable to try Antony on the left? Notwithstanding the current players we have in that position, it can get him to play more direct and actually create something (Rashford can do a job on the right, though barely). Worth a try. For the team's collective good in the long term, it will justify us bringing in a new right winger.
 
It has just begun and like Harry it will be taken too far.

I highly doubt that. De Gea was heavily criticized but never received threats or booing like Maguire. What happened to Maguire was way out of line and disgusting but thankfully so far hasnt really happened to anyone else at the club, regardless of how bad they have been.
 
You would only amortize the expected fee which is £80.75m over 5 years which means each year we write off £16.15m off his value, so currently after 1 year his carrying value is £64.6m meaning if we sold him at that we would break even effectively in terms of FFP
You're missing the wages as well as the fact that keeping him this year would result in another £16.15m amortizing. So breakeven without replacement at £200k/week wages would actually be £38.5m.
 
You're missing the wages as well as the fact that keeping him this year would result in another £16.15m amortizing. So breakeven without replacement at £200k/week wages would actually be £38.5m.

FFP allows you to spread the cost of a cost of a transfer over the length of the contract. Regardless of the payment plan to the actual selling party.

We buy a player for £80.75 m on a 5 year contract. So we spread that cost out as 16.15m a year for 5 years.

After a year, we still owe £64.6m (or 4 x 16.15m). By selling him, we can't just ignore the fact that we still owe £16.15m for each of the next 4 years - and as we don't own the asset anymore, we need to settle the cumulative sum of that right away.

Now if we could somehow get someone to pay his full wage (unlikely) and not replace him with anyone, we'd then also be also be save an extra £10m.

So the break even point is £54.6m in that scenario.
 
FFP allows you to spread the cost of a cost of a transfer over the length of the contract. Regardless of the payment plan to the actual selling party.

We buy a player for £80.75 m on a 5 year contract. So we spread that cost out as 16.15m a year for 5 years.

After a year, we still owe £64.6m (or 4 x 16.15m). By selling him, we can't just ignore the fact that we still owe £16.15m for each of the next 4 years - and as we don't own the asset anymore, we need to settle the cumulative sum of that right away.

Now if we could somehow get someone to pay his full wage (unlikely) and not replace him with anyone, we'd then also be also be save an extra £10m.

So the break even point is £54.6m in that scenario.
I understand that. Let me break down the impact on this year's books to illustrate what I mean:

Keep:
£16.15m amortization
£10m wages
Total cost to this year's accounts: £26.15m

Sell:
£64.6m asset write-down
Total cost to this year's accounts: £64.6m

Net difference: £38.45m - there's your breakeven point
 
Is it absolutely unimaginable to try Antony on the left? Notwithstanding the current players we have in that position, it can get him to play more direct and actually create something (Rashford can do a job on the right, though barely). Worth a try. For the team's collective good in the long term, it will justify us bringing in a new right winger.
What do you expect him to do from the left exactly?
 
I could be wrong about this and I kinda hope I am, but I feel like with time, both Amad and Sancho will be shown to be better options that Antony in any attacking position.
 
Is it absolutely unimaginable to try Antony on the left? Notwithstanding the current players we have in that position, it can get him to play more direct and actually create something (Rashford can do a job on the right, though barely). Worth a try. For the team's collective good in the long term, it will justify us bringing in a new right winger.

Eth Just needs to get Rashford on the left.

ALL the other pieces will than hopefully fall into place. Sancho and Maybe Martial through the middle for next 2 games and than hopefully Hoijlund will be okay to start.

Hopefully Antony gets better and Amad will offer a option as soon as he is fit.

Next 2 matches are the one I am dreading
 
Lots of journos are now saying this. I got shouted down when I flagged it. 7 out of 9 signings from ETH either played for him at Ajax (3) or played against him in Dutch league (4). He is being given too much freedom. One poster said leaked scouting emails on Reddit showed scouts were against his signing. The club never learns

It certainly seems that way, ie club never learning. I know it's common enough that managers want to work with what they know but we've paid crazy money for Antony when the managers opinion should have been null and void, once it got to silly money we should have ran a mile.
 
I've just listened to Samuel Luckhurst on Manchester is Red podcast chatting about how underwhelming Antony has been since he signed and how he was a poor choice RW signing especially for the inflated price. Basically suggested that ETH has been given too much say in signings and that the scouts aren't being listened to regards player signings.

To be fair It does seem to be a continuation of United managers picking players that they know and trust instead of the club trusting the scouting department and getting the manager to do what he's paid and coach said signings.

In fairness to Antony, he has done more in 1 year than Sancho has done in 2 but Christ that's setting the bar extremely low.
You have to wonder why we even bother employing scouts when they are ignored. The Glazers are missing a trick by not cutting costs and diverting the scouting budget to their annual dividends
 
You're allowed to base your opinion based on work rate, hair color, or whatever else mate. I just challenged this opinion because I've seen this mentioned a few times, but the fact is piss poor Sancho who spent a few months out of the team still managed to get much better goal contribution to minutes player ratio.

Antony work rate is non questionable, he is 30m player because of his defensive contribution alone. The problem is he's 30m player in total. I'm being a bit sarcastic here to highlight a point.

I agree completely about Antony, he's been a piss poor signing and he offers next to nothing going forward bar the odd curler with the left peg.

With Sancho, I was excited when he signed, his numbers in Germany were very good and the old generational talent was banded about by many.
You can stick up for him using goal contributions per minutes played all you like but the fact is, and this is my opinion, he's been ever so disappointing in almost every department, lacks pace, not extremely skillful, lacks upper body strength, mentality? question marks there but his performance in the FA cup final against City was absolutely disgraceful. I've been watching football a long time and I wouldn't want him beside me in the heat of battle.
 
You have to wonder why we even bother employing scouts when they are ignored. The Glazers are missing a trick by not cutting costs and diverting the scouting budget to their annual dividends

Brilliant

Yes it's a joke that we have scouts all over the world and for the most important team, ie the 1st team it's the managers recommendation that gets listened to.

Ah Erik will live and die by his decisions but his signings thus far have been underwhelming to say the least.
 
I highly doubt that. De Gea was heavily criticized but never received threats or booing like Maguire. What happened to Maguire was way out of line and disgusting but thankfully so far hasnt really happened to anyone else at the club, regardless of how bad they have been.
This is how it starts, I just laugh at the lot who thought he was the best thing since sliced bread not so long ago.
 
More I think about it, its really on ETH to resolve this, either spend a lot of time 1-1 coaching with him or bin him.
 
I always said I'd 12 to 18 months to come good when he signed. That's December. I'll stick to that.
 
The only skill he seems to have is good shooting ability. May be worth a try as False 9 so that he can be in center and have more chances of hitting the goal?
 
Was thinking about it, but if he was just a Brazilian from our academy people would be saying he needs a loan in the Championship.

And the funniest part is I doubt he would do what Amad did for Sunderland in that league.

Literally the only reason people are still trying to convince themselves he’ll come good is because of the price tag. If he was a youth player or cheap punt he’d be rated alongside the likes of Bebe & Obertan.

The only skill he seems to have is good shooting ability. May be worth a try as False 9 so that he can be in center and have more chances of hitting the goal?

His shooting is absolutely horrible.
He just takes so many shots that the occasional one eventually flies in.
 
With his pressing and off the ball work and selfishness we should stick him up front, can't be worse than Rashford :lol:
He’ll be through on goal one v one then come back on himself, let the defenders get goal side, then do a triple 360 spin before absolutely lamping the fecking ball back to the right back.
 
Literally the only reason people are still trying to convince themselves he’ll come good is because of the price tag. If he was a youth player or cheap punt he’d be rated alongside the likes of Bebe & Obertan.



His shooting is absolutely horrible.
He just takes so many shots that the occasional one eventually flies in.

People don’t realize he shot almost as much as Rashford did last season
 
It must be so frustrating for the scouts because they are the target of so much abuse: "why did we sign Maguire/AWB/Antony etc" "what are our scouts Tutuapp 9Apps doing" " we should sack our scouts and sign Brighton's"... the reality is that we probably have brilliant scouts who simply aren't being listened to at all.
Well I think you must scout the mentality before the skill these days
 
As many have pointed out, the elephant in the room is that this guy does not have the tools required to be an effective winger in this league. Period. Nothing he or ETH could do to change that fact imo.

I would be tempted to try and see how he performs at a false nine role but then again, he has very poor vision and passing technique. His shooting is also laughable most of the times. So I'm concerned on what to actually do with the guy. He costed way too much to be sitting on the bench and we may find it difficult to move him on ala a Maguire.
 
I'd pretty much agree with the consensus here that Antony isn't up to it. What's more so I think it's also dawned on him that he may well be out of his depth. Every time I see this guy play I see an increasing lack of confidence in his own ability and a reluctance to take a man on or to take a risk in general. Far too predictable he has been easily worked out and does not possess the tools to overcome that. Looks like a West Ham player to me.
 
AWB and Dalot get picked on quite abit for their supposed lack of support for Antony but, in my mind, it really boils down to the lack of the support the Brazilian gives them.
AWB and Dalot cover a fair amount of ground on the right flack and centrally now but for whatever reason Antony doesn't seem to utilize them enough.
 
AWB and Dalot get picked on quite abit for their supposed lack of support for Antony but, in my mind, it really boils down to the lack of the support the Brazilian gives them.
AWB and Dalot cover a fair amount of ground on the right flack and centrally now but for whatever reason Antony doesn't seem to utilize them enough.
Antony is having a torrid time as an individual, for sure, but the difference between what we have and what he was used to overlapping his flank is an absolute chasm. That obviously goes for Sancho, too.
 
I'd pretty much agree with the consensus here that Antony isn't up to it. What's more so I think it's also dawned on him that he may well be out of his depth. Every time I see this guy play I see an increasing lack of confidence in his own ability and a reluctance to take a man on or to take a risk in general. Far too predictable he has been easily worked out and does not possess the tools to overcome that. Looks like a West Ham player to me.

West Ham have J Bowen, who I'd happily take instead of Antony. You are underestimating West Ham.
 
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