[Foxbatt]

It is actually the midfield. Players like Martial needs the ball early but by the time the ball comes to his side, ( if it ever comes) then all is closed up there. The defenders know that if he gets going he might do some damage. Instead we always play on our right side where Mata is way too slow and also comes in field to the left side where we now have Mata, Martial, Shaw and Pogba while on the right we have no one to even take a defender away from Lukaku who is in the centre. If he plays in the centre, he is now like Lukaku or Zlatan where we can thump the ball up to him. He needs to be played on the ground. I would like to see Lukaku pulling to the right, Martial in the centre and Sanchez on the left to see how that works.
But no matter who plays where we need to move the ball a lot more quicker between players and players need to move off the ball a lot more quicker.

 

[Wade3]

How he has gone from a fan favorite to being on a Fellaini like scapegoat level is interesting to say the least.

 

[AR87]

If you don't think it's even close to the only, or even a primary issue, why initially mention that we were awful at all times and that you think some of it is due to Martial playing instead of Sanchez.

This is the Martial thread. We're discussing his performance here and how it's relevant to the team's play. Pretty basic stuff.

 

[Born2Lose]

Yes, and he's also the cause of world hunger and poverty

Going by how some on here kiss his ass regardless of how he plays, I'm guessing he might be the cure for both those problems.

 

[AR87]

It is actually the midfield. Players like Martial needs the ball early but by the time the ball comes to his side, ( if it ever comes) then all is closed up there.

This is a good point. It's some combination of our CMs lacking the awareness to find him early when he's isolated, him not necessarily moving to get the ball in ideal areas and a general absence of a game plan to find him it seems.

Last year there were many times I was annoyed when we'd have opportunities to isolate him, but instead went elsewhere with the ball. It's certainly not all on him, though against Brighton I felt he was just poor regardless of other issues.

 

[UncleBob]

This is the Martial thread. We're discussing his performance here and how it's relevant to the team's play. Pretty basic stuff.

Not sure if I've argued against this being the Martial performance thread.

You point out that you're not claiming that he was even close to the only or even the primary issue, after pointing out that some of the reason for us being awful at all times is Martial playing instead of Sanchez

 

[AR87]

Not sure if I've argued against this being the Martial performance thread.

You point out that you're not claiming that he was even close to the only or even the primary issue, after pointing out that some of the reason for us being awful at all times is Martial playing instead of Sanchez

Yeah, not sure why you can't understand how this is possible. Usually when teams suck as much as we did against Brighton there's not just one issue, there are alot of them. I thought that was one worth mentioning without it being even close to the biggest reason for such an awful overall effort.

 

[Rash Decision]

Not sure if I've argued against this being the Martial performance thread.

You point out that you're not claiming that he was even close to the only or even the primary issue, after pointing out that some of the reason for us being awful at all times is Martial playing instead of Sanchez

I don't see any contradiction there. Martial playing instead of Sanchez could be ONE of many factors that resulted in our poor play, but not the main factor. Other factors are discussed in their respective threads, e.g. Jose Mourinho thread, Lukaku thread etc.

Whether or not you agree that Martial was a contributing factor is a separate argument.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I see it a little differently,for me and especially at the weekend he was very wide and wasn’t coming in enough, he was miles away from Lukaku and when play was building on the right instead of getting himself in and around the back post he’d just hang out on that wing. Last year I seem to recall him coming in but he would hang around the D and be open for passes and I’m sure he had a few good attempts at goal from there and that possibly 2 of his goals came from that position, needs to get back to doing one or the other but I think his stay wide thing is maybe more by design than just him staying out there.He does make some really weird desicisons at times tho and I’ve said this for a while he seems more intrested in defending his space than taking a risk and getting in the box.

He is very frustrating and right now and for most of last year he just looks like a guy who is lost, he to me just doesn’t seem to have the intensity to do it. He gets back and in to defensive positions but it’s not like he is trying to win the ball back, he’s just there making up the numbers, seems that way in attack as well at times although I have seen him make countless runs and stuff that aren’t picked out, he’s just a bit of an enigma.

It’s even more frustrating when here we have a guy who arguably on a technical skill level is better than Dembele or Mbappe yet Mbappe is light years ahead of him. Mbappe’s Decision making in games and how he uses his abilities are what takes him to that level or 3 above Martial.

Well you need a mixture.

You want to be wide and high when the ball is in midfield, or when your fullback is receiving the ball etc.

If the ball is on the right wing and in an advanced area then yes you want to push into the box, either for a cutback or at the back post.

Martial just doesn't seem to have the concept of positioning very well. That's why I feel we need a better coach to teach him.

I think it's not a surprise that he actually seemed very good under LVG, as he had clear rigid instructions that benefited him. In Mourinho's "do what you like" sort of system he hasn't got a clue.

 

[Rash Decision]

Well you need a mixture.

You want to be wide and high when the ball is in midfield, or when your fullback is receiving the ball etc.

If the ball is on the right wing and in an advanced area then yes you want to push into the box, either for a cutback or at the back post.

Martial just doesn't seem to have the concept of positioning very well. That's why I feel we need a better coach to teach him.

I think it's not a surprise that he actually seemed very good under LVG, as he had clear rigid instructions that benefited him. In Mourinho's "do what you like" sort of system he hasn't got a clue.

I think this is a very reasonable conclusion. It certainly fits in with the trend of LVG seeming to do better with our younger players and Jose preferring to work with seasoned players.

 

[OL29]

How he has gone from a fan favorite to being on a Fellaini like scapegoat level is interesting to say the least.

Happens to every fan favourite on here. Herrera used to be loved at one point too. Just shows how fickle we all are as football fans really. It
just annoys me that people throw around terms like Martial FC and fanboy so much in his threads when he’s probably the most disliked player on this board these days.

 

[RedShazzm]

I think this is a very reasonable conclusion. It certainly fits in with the trend of LVG seeming to do better with our younger players and Jose preferring to work with seasoned players.

it's the same thing with Rashford, they need to learn basics, systems, and to be inspired,even when you have 100k week....I still believe in him et rash'. (For me the perfomances are exactly the same in terms of quality and curve.

 

[Rash Decision]

it's the same thing with Rashford, they need to learn basics, systems, and to be inspired,even when you have 100k week....I still believe in him et rash'. (For me the perfomances are exactly the same in terms of quality and curve.

Agree with you, but can't deny that I'm worried. These are very important developmental years for them, and while Martial seems to be stagnating, Rashford appears to be regressing. They need to be properly coached or they're not going to realise their potentials as players.

 

[RedShazzm]

Well, if ithe coach stay, Martial (and Rashford) are "done".
I was uncomfortable when I saw Martial face on the few balls that he touched. the rest of the team was horrible, but he had a strange pressure on his shoulders... It was embarrassing to see his failure (like Pogba). This setup without any real sentinel and/or stability (Pereira, Fred, Pogba = what did you expect ?) was a poisoned gift in my opinion, and I quite agree with Scholes that Lukaku, Rashford, and Martial must have the ball faster and more simply.

 

[SteveW]

I tend to agree with Scholes' assessment. How was expected to do anything if they never got the ball to him quickly enough or at all for the most part. Most of the game was played in our half

 

[Raven]

I tend to agree with Scholes' assessment. How was expected to do anything if they never got the ball to him quickly enough or at all for the most part. Most of the game was played in our half

Exactly, if we play on the front foot, the attackers will play better. Who'd have thunk it?

 

[acnumber9]

He could try and make it easier for players to get the ball to him. By moving or something.

 

[SteveW]

He could try and make it easier for players to get the ball to him. By moving or something.

Fair point. I wonder if he's told to stay on the wing though. Surely it's down to the manager.

 

[acnumber9]

Fair point. I wonder if he's told to stay on the wing though. Surely it's down to the manager.

Sanchez, Rashford, Lingard and Mata don’t so it would be baffling if Mourinho told Martial he can’t move.

 

[SteveW]

Sanchez, Rashford, Lingard and Mata don’t so it would be baffling if Mourinho told Martial he can’t move.

I didn't say not move. It just seems odd to suggest a player that prefers to play centrally would decide by himself to stick to the sideline.

 

[el3mel]

Fair point. I wonder if he's told to stay on the wing though. Surely it's down to the manager.

He can stay on the wing but make some runs behind the fullbacks like any proper winger does. His teammates will find it easier to give him the ball in dangerous situations if he's willing to make some off the ball running behind defenders.

But he has always been there since LVG though. He wanted the ball to his feet and dribble past the players in front. When it clicks and he's on a good day, he looks phenomenal. Problem is when it didn't. We looked static several times under LVG as well despite Martial having his best season here.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

He can stay on the wing but make some runs behind the fullbacks like any proper winger does. His teammates will find it easier to give him the ball in dangerous situations if he's willing to make some off the ball running behind defenders.

But he has always been there since LVG though. He wanted the ball to his feet and dribble past the players in front. When it clicks and he's on a good day, he looks phenomenal. Problem is when it didn't. We looked static several times under LVG as well despite Martial having his best season here.

And when we tell fans that martial is never a proper winger & should not be playing there they act super confused.

 

[Damien]

Fair point. I wonder if he's told to stay on the wing though. Surely it's down to the manager.

I didn't say not move. It just seems odd to suggest a player that prefers to play centrally would decide by himself to stick to the sideline.

When Mourinho talks about width, he's always referring to Martial as someone he wants on to stay out wide. As for the movement argument, Martial has never been great at it but hardly any of our players move much off the ball compared to other teams. We're pretty predictable.

 

[SteveW]

He can stay on the wing but make some runs behind the fullbacks like any proper winger does. His teammates will find it easier to give him the ball in dangerous situations if he's willing to make some off the ball running behind defenders.

But he has always been there since LVG though. He wanted the ball to his feet and dribble past the players in front. When it clicks and he's on a good day, he looks phenomenal. Problem is when it didn't. We looked static several times under LVG as well despite Martial having his best season here.

I agree to a fair extent. He definitely loves getting the ball to feet and should make a LOT more runs in behind. I have no idea why he is not being coached to do this. What do the coaches even do these days????

I can see why a player wouldn't be making those runs in this team though. Barring Pogba nobody is hitting the types of forward passes that would find these runs.

 

[el3mel]

And when we tell fans that martial is never a proper winger & should not be playing there they act super confused.

Even as a striker he'll need to make off ball runs behind defender to receive through passes, otherwise we'll still look static and shite.

There's sever lack of movement in the team and Martial is one of those accused of this. Rashford and Lingard look like the only one who runs and make off ball movements. Everyone wants the ball at his feet. It's shite.

 

[el3mel]

I agree to a fair extent. He definitely loves getting the ball to feet and should make a LOT more runs in behind. I have no idea why he is not being coached to do this. What do the coaches even do these days????

I can see why a player wouldn't be making those runs in this team though. Barring Pogba nobody is hitting the types of forward passes that would find these runs.

No idea. Coaches should have told him or worked on him in training sessions to improve his movement but it seems not.

 

[SteveW]

Even as a striker he'll need to make off ball runs behind defender to receive through passes, otherwise we'll still look static and shite.

There's sever lack of movement in the team and Martial is one of those accused of this. Rashford and Lingard look like the only one who runs and make off ball movements. Everyone wants the ball at his feet. It's shite.

The bolded part is so true. Combine this with the fact that nobody wants to take a risk with a pass and you end up with this self imposed football stalemate that is basically how we play now. Noodlehair or somebody summed it up perfectly as "slow motion zombie football"

 

[SteveW]

No idea. Coaches should have told him or worked on him in training sessions to improve his movement but it seems not.

Glaring examples like this are part of why I think some of our players Martial included could improve a great deal under the right coach. Great talent but clearly not being taught anything.

 

[Lawman]

Attitude stinks wouldn’t have lasted a season under Fergie with that attitude.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Even as a striker he'll need to make off ball runs behind defender to receive through passes, otherwise we'll still look static and shite.

There's sever lack of movement in the team and Martial is one of those accused of this. Rashford and Lingard look like the only one who runs and make off ball movements. Everyone wants the ball at his feet. It's shite.

And making off the ball runs centrally is much easier considering he is a central player.

For a striker made to play as a winger who tends to cut in - it is understandable if he struggles to make runs on the outside of the fullback; the opposite of him being in a position to cut in. He is more capable of drifting wide to receive the ball because he can position himself to take the central defenders on & take a shot.

Instead now he has fans complaining about his inability to get behind the fullback in to position where the fullback will cover the inside channels, areas where martial can't be an inverted forward & positions normally related to a winger who has more capability to cross.

Martial is currently stagnant in areas he would normally make runs to & is struggling to make runs because it destroys his capacity to be effective. He isn't a winger who is made to take on the fullback, he is a forward made to take on the CB's. He also likes to receive the ball to feet to take on any player so again struggles to be effective on the outside.

That is two different roles & he is being mismanaged.

 

[el3mel]

And making off the ball runs centrally is much easier considering he is a central player.

For a striker made to play as a winger who tends to cut in - it is understandable if he struggles to make runs on the outside of the fullback; the opposite of him being in a position to cut in. He is more capable of drifting wide to receive the ball because he can position himself to take the central defenders on & take a shot.

Instead now he has fans complaining about his inability to get behind the fullback in to position where the fullback will cover the inside channels, areas where martial can't be an inverted forward & positions normally related to a winger who has more capability to cross.

Martial is currently stagnant in areas he would normally make runs to & is struggling to make runs because it destroys his capacity to be effective. He isn't a winger who is made to take on the fullback, he is a forward made to take on the CB's. He also likes to receive the ball to feet to take on any player so again struggles to be effective on the outside.

That is two different roles & he is being mismanaged.

You're talking as if you have seen him playing as a striker loads of times and reached this conclusion when I'm sure you didn't. During his best season here which made everyone a fan of him, he played as a LW most of times.

Also doesn't make sense he's not able to make an off ball run behind one fullback but will be able to do it behind the full line of defense behind him when he's a striker. He'll be static, wanting the ball in his feet and playing on his luck to either beat a defender or not.

This position argument has always been used as an excuse for underperforming players ever since the trend of " Rooney should stop playing deep, he should be up front as a striker or 9.5 that's his natural position!" started.

 

[Steven7290]

And making off the ball runs centrally is much easier considering he is a central player.

For a striker made to play as a winger who tends to cut in - it is understandable if he struggles to make runs on the outside of the fullback; the opposite of him being in a position to cut in. He is more capable of drifting wide to receive the ball because he can position himself to take the central defenders on & take a shot.

Instead now he has fans complaining about his inability to get behind the fullback in to position where the fullback will cover the inside channels, areas where martial can't be an inverted forward & positions normally related to a winger who has more capability to cross.

Martial is currently stagnant in areas he would normally make runs to & is struggling to make runs because it destroys his capacity to be effective. He isn't a winger who is made to take on the fullback, he is a forward made to take on the CB's. He also likes to receive the ball to feet to take on any player so again struggles to be effective on the outside.

That is two different roles & he is being mismanaged.

I wonder what "made" him, since the majority of his career even since Monaco he's been coming in from the left and never consistently played as a striker let alone playing well in that position. Or are you referring to the best imaginable fit for his natural attributes?

Top forwards such as Henry, van Persie, Wayne Rooney (before his decline), etc. like him, had mastered the winger forward role at some point in their career before proving to be a consistent goalscorer as a lone forward (maybe not Henry). No one was making excuses for not making runs because they're not made to do that.

 

[MiceOnMeth]

Attitude stinks wouldn’t have lasted a season under Fergie with that attitude.

He also wouldn't have been thrown under the bus by Fergie.

 

[Member 5225]

Happens to every fan favourite on here. Herrera used to be loved at one point too. Just shows how fickle we all are as football fans really. It
just annoys me that people throw around terms like Martial FC and fanboy so much in his threads when he’s probably the most disliked player on this board these days.

Yeah what could it be; surely nothing to do with, say their bread-and-butter eh (their performances!)

Yep slap our wrists, us fickle fans, waking up each morning and just looking to pick on a player for absolutely no reason at all...

 

[OL29]

Yeah what could it be; surely nothing to do with, say their bread-and-butter eh (their performances!)

Yep slap our wrists, us fickle fans, waking up each morning and just looking to pick on a player for absolutely no reason at all...

Not even getting into this with you, look at your username ffs

 

[Member 5225]

Not even getting into this with you, look at your username ffs

Lol yeah some Mod thinks I’m just complaining (and apparently now is the fashion) hence it’s not even worth debating.

Enjoy MartialFC!

 

[acnumber9]

I didn't say not move. It just seems odd to suggest a player that prefers to play centrally would decide by himself to stick to the sideline.

More strange than those tactics being specifically for one out of five players who play wide?

 

[Smores]

If Martial knows his movement is shit are we really going to say he doesnt have what he needs to improve? I mean some of it is very fecking basic stuff

 

[SteveW]

If Martial knows his movement is shit are we really going to say he doesnt have what he needs to improve? I mean some of it is very fecking basic stuff

Absolutely. It's called coaching. Most players struggle from not being naturally gifted enough. Martial has all the talent in the world.

Van gaal had him playing well. Why isn't he developing under Jose?

 

[Smores]

Absolutely. It's called coaching. Most players struggle from not being naturally gifted enough. Martial has all the talent in the world.

Van gaal had him playing well. Why isn't he developing under Jose?

So he's a forward with all the talent in the world who has come through the youth setups with all that coaching and he's what forgot the basics of movement because he's not been reminded?