Yep, narratives around players influence massively interpretation of everything they do. People were blaming Maguire for the Onana yellow, nah he got booked because he had been looking to slow down the game and waste time from the start of the match.
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Yep, narratives around players influence massively interpretation of everything they do. People were blaming Maguire for the Onana yellow, nah he got booked because he had been looking to slow down the game and waste time from the start of the match.
I can't take this "De Gea would have saved that" nonsense seriously, as if they've not watched him for the last half decade.
The below video typifies what we've seen from De Gea from the last 5 years. His poor shot stopping cost us the FA cup final as he just casually watched shots go into his net.
The 2nd goal was a massive deflection. Only agenda-driven fans could possibly think this was a goalkeeping error.
feck possession numbers, ffs. When that possession means something then fine. But we still have problems to go out from defence (that is not on Onana, to be clear). Ok, i guess i am old school type who wants from gk to save bloody shots.
And one more thing; for years and years Dave was bashed about not going out on crosses. So what is up with that now? We have exactly same gk regarding that.
Look, i like Onana and we did good with signing him (because Dave was really finished at highest level). But demands from Man Utd gk should be always the same. To be excellent shot stopper and then everything else.
He's a massive improvement over De Gea. Blaming him for the deflected goal is bollocks.
From The Athletic's article on the game:
It is a widely documented narrative for Manchester United this season, but the arrival of Andre Onana has truly changed their approach in possession.
That was as evident as ever on Sunday afternoon, particularly in the first half — only Manchester City’s Ederson (41 vs Burnley) attempted more passes in a first half of a game than Onana’s 36 against Arsenal.
As you can see below, a lot of these passes were short, and a healthy amount were from an advanced starting position beyond his penalty area.
Onana’s strength in possession is a far cry from David de Gea’s weakness on the ball last season. For that reason, Arsenal were intelligent in actually allowing United to build out in deep areas and keeping their out-of-possession structure. Arteta’s men were reluctant to press Onana too tightly in the knowledge that he has the technical quality to play out of pressure and find the spare man to break Arsenal’s press and get United on the attack.
This is shown below, where 44 per cent of United’s touches were in their own third — the highest share among their four games so far this season.
It is not surprising that we are seeing this approach from United since Onana arrived, but future opponents might want to follow the blueprint that Arsenal set, which is to not fall into the trap of pressing Onana and losing their structure.
With De Gea in goal we would've been struggling to even bring the ball out and Arsenal's press would've been even more aggressive and we would've been pinned in our own box. And because we would be pinned in our own half De Gea would then make a save or two and people would think he was saving us.
Onana made a massive difference to our build up from the back today and Arsenal's press wasn't anywhere near as effective from the front. We were comfortably bringing the ball out from the back and all we needed was a midfielder in central areas who had the ability to evade pressure on the half turn which I believe would've made a difference in the game. Amrabat, Mainoo and Hannibal have the potential to be that player. And then we have Hojlund upfront who looked a real powerhouse today with the pace, power and intensity to really pin the opposing CB both in physical duels and utilising his pace in the channels.
Onana made a massive difference to our build up from the back today and Arsenal's press wasn't anywhere near as effective from the front. We were comfortably bringing the ball out from the back and all we needed was a midfielder in central areas who had the ability to evade pressure on the half turn which I believe would've made a difference in the game. Amrabat, Mainoo and Hannibal have the potential to be that player. And then we have Hojlund upfront who looked a real powerhouse today with the pace, power and intensity to really pin the opposing CB both in physical duels and utilising his pace in the channels.
Those who want to see the difference between Onana and DDG - sofascore has the average position map for our latest year's match at Emirates and today. Just compare the front 3 heat maps of Arsenal players between that match and this match.
, oh DDG would have saved it back in 2014 doesn't cut it, anymore.
, oh DDG would have saved it back in 2014 doesn't cut it, anymore.
Not his fault for the second goal.
And people think of De Gea of 2016 whenever they say "Oh he surely would whatever shot that's discussed".
We bought Onana instead of a declining De Gea.
Of course he's going to look bad compared to prime DDG, who was 2nd best GK in the world for a good number of years.
And people think of De Gea of 2016 whenever they say "Oh he surely would whatever shot that's discussed".
We bought Onana instead of a declining De Gea.
Of course he's going to look bad compared to prime DDG, who was 2nd best GK in the world for a good number of years.
He's the 3rd most expensive GK of all time, he's naturally going to be judged as such.
This might be true but it just doesn’t have any sort of lingering significance in the grand scheme of things. For the reason you mentioned actually, for one our midfield does not have the capabilities of picking up those pinged balls, turning on a six pence, athletically moving past the opposition and progressing moves forward.
Therefore you ask yourself , was it better to spend 55 million on a midfielder who can do all of those things, or a goalkeeper who can pass and is comfortable outside his box? I mean how much did City pay for nunes again?
I like onana and degea had to go but I feel we’re seeing exactly what a lot of people were saying would happen. Yeah you’ve now got a keeper who can play a bit but when players in more prominent positions up the pitch cannot do the things that would enable Onana’s game to be fully utilised you’re left with basically nothing.
I mean for all those things about the heat map and possession, that game actually went the same identical way it did last year and ironically again because of poor guile and athleticism in midfield. Last 10-15 were penned in and concede.
ten Hag gets these ideas in his head, and the signings of mount and onana show this. The problem is he’s not been good enough to set the team up properly to the point where signings like Mount and Onana would be as effective as they would be in a team like Arsenal city Brighton and Liverpool who play this high press, high possession game successfully.
We’re still a bang average team when it comes to these metrics. He was massively short sighted in his signings.
That has to do with how the market has gone crazy.
Declan Rice is surely one of the most expensive DM's in English football's history.
Will we now compare him to the likes or Vieira, Keane?
I really don't think people should judge or compare current players to former players mostly based on their prices.
It's actually very simple.
If you want to play a more dominant brand of football then you have to bring in the correct profile of players. Of course it was logical to sign a GK who could provide the free-man option in the build up phase. And having a GK who can do that has a significant impact on the team hence rival teams have bought keepers like Claudio Bravo then Ederson before signing the likes of Nunes. And you may not think so but I believe a combination of Amrabat, Mainoo and Hannibal provides what we're missing in midfield right now.
And capable high pressing opponents will not allow top quality midfields to make a difference because a man oriented press will push them to go back to the keeper. And if the keeper is poor with the ball, the midfield will have to do a lot more chasing the ball than they should. De Gea had to go and it was absolutely the correct decision to move him on.
The people you're arguing against would rather we signed Rice/Caicedo for £100m so that de Gea could lump long balls to our strikers and Rice/Caicedo could battle for the second balls to bring us all the way back to the Moyes era. Don't bother.
Our most progressive player is our keeper.
I'm looking forward to Amrabat and Mainoo possibly playing together. I think once we have everyone back, the team has potential in all phases of play.
The biggest issue is that when things don't make sense for people, they create problems in their own head. We're not going to win the league this season but the potential is there to take a step forward in our development as a team that has aims to be more proactive in their play style. The game against Arsenal was always going to be difficult and losing the game was absolutely a real possibility. Our record at the Emirates in recent years hasn't been good and we were also without several players who I believe would've made a difference in the game today if they had started.
If ten Hag didn't have Amrabat, Mainoo and Hannibal as options then I'd be worried. But I'm not worried because we have the aforementioned options and there's something to work with those players as far as having players who can evade/resist pressure. And upfront we have The Hulk who came on today and showed a lot of promise.
Before christmas I think that Onana`s position will be challenged by Bayindir - a bit like when we had both Lindegaard and De Gea. I know the situation is not 100% the same because De Gea was very young at that time.
Can he play a midfield 2?
He can’t really play it backwards now can he?
He's absolutely brilliant, I just love his enthusiasm and leadership qualities.
No disrespect to De Gea, he saved us a lot of times but I just never seen him show the confidence Onana does with his defence in his whole time at United.
No disrespect to De Gea, he saved us a lot of times but I just never seen him show the confidence Onana does with his defence in his whole time at United.
It’s actually very simple. You’re comparing apples and oranges. Man City had De bruyne, Silva, Yaya Toure and Fernandinho when they decided to change keepers. We have nobody even close to their level of guile and athleticism.
Not denying we needed a keeper but 55 million when the rest of your team is as it is, is short sighted and it will be proven to be dumb when this team inevitably fails this season.
I mean it’s basics. A goalkeeper will naturally only ever cover a certain area of the pitch whereas midfielders will cover almost all of the pitch. It’s patently obvious which one is more important if you HAD to prioritise.
And Hannibal? Ffs. I saw him plenty at Birmingham, he’s a very average player. And relying on Kobe Mainoo is an outrageous suggestion.
@Anustart89 yewh pal that’s exactly what I said. Don’t spend 55 mill on onana spend 110 on caicedo. Because of course there’s no middle ground and no other option exists.
More irritated by the defending of Evans, Maguire and Dalot for the second goal (just one of them had to get closer to Rice, even if Evans was struggling/being fouled) even if it was a bit of a weak shot.
Night and day difference between his distribution and De Gea's. Not sure about the other aspects of his game yet but it's not ideal that he's got an ever changing defence in front of him due to injuries.
Night and day difference between his distribution and De Gea's. Not sure about the other aspects of his game yet but it's not ideal that he's got an ever changing defence in front of him due to injuries.
Lad is a game changer.
That's an outrageous opinion
It doesn't matter to Guardiola or any other positional play coach who he has in midfield, if the keeper can't provide the numerical superiority in possession. Why is that so hard for you to understand? It's why Guardiola pushed for Bravo then Ederson because creating numerical superiorities in the build up phase was an absolute requirement to thwart the oppositions press and also enable a higher defensive line.
Wild
Night and day difference between his and DDGs command of the box too
Superb passer but jeese when he comes out with the ball 40 yds out of his area to pass i feel nervous. Ot sure he is any where near Degea at saves, i reckon Degea would have saved the first goal.
This is not a dig at Onana, but it is the easiest position on the pitch to be press resistant. Everything is in front of you and nobody is complaining if you hoof it up field while under pressure. Comparing him to outfield players doesn’t really work.
Guarantee you we’d of gotten mauled by Arsenal today if DDG was playing. They would have pressed the life out of us.
Can’t believe my eyes people saying he’s no good. Must have an agenda, or simply need to have someone or something to moan about.
Can’t believe my eyes people saying he’s no good. Must have an agenda, or simply need to have someone or something to moan about.
I feel like he's the only top class player in this side yet to catch the inferiority bug that has surrounded this club since 2013. I only watched the first 30 minutes, but during that time it looked like he was holding the hands of all the players and directing play constantly. If we had 10 outfield players with that confidence and attitude we'd be an elite side.
Yeah, not a great shot stopper and arguably should have given away a pen against Wolves but 5* confidence for the lad who had conceded 8 goals in 4 prem games and several in pre-season too
What is so hard for you to understand about ‘prioritisation’. I am not saying you don’t need a capable keeper for this, im saying if the rest of your team is at the levels ours is at it’s probably better to prioritise those areas first or you know sign a keeper who can do those things who doesn’t cost 55 million. It’s called squad and budget management. I don’t even get what you’re arguing against. The evidence has been there today and va Tottenham. Onana Martinez and dalot do a decent enough job then as soon as it goes into midfield to someone who isn’t eriksen it’s turn over time. The more you turn the ball over the less control you have over a game. This negates any ball playing positional advantages your keeper gives you.
The fee for Onana was around £43m with another £4m in add ons.
Our big issue last lesson was that we struggled against high pressing teams in large part due to the GK being weak when it came to distribution from the back hence we had to go direct and play in transition against teams who have been developed to exert control with and without the ball and hence we surrendered possession more often than not against those teams. Both the stats and eye test also confirmed this.
And you have to prioritise the weaknesses in your team which are hindering you from being a more proactive attacking team in possession as well as being a more proactive team out of possession. And the GK and central striker roles were without a doubt the biggest priorities to upgrade for a head coach who wants to build attacks from the back and defend from the front whilst aiming to play the game in the opponent's half.
We've got Amrabat who has the ability to raise the level when it comes to evading/resisting the press and progressing the ball via his passing. So when he's available to start along with Hojlund, we should again see further improvement.
It wasn't excellent. The short passing was good but it didn't amount to anything really. Every time he went long he was just giving the ball away. It's like it doesn't suit us to play this way.
His shot stopping leaves a lot to be desired if we're all being honest. His ability on the ball would make up for it if only the rest of the defence was on his wavelength, but sadly only Martinez is so our build-up play is only marginally less dysfunctional than it was last season.
Why did he keep launching speculative long balls at Martial in the first half? Might as well just hand the ball over tot the opponent.
Yeah, it didn't work. His passing range is excellent and I'm convinced that he can ping a ball to anyone on the pitch anywhere, but kicking it long to Martial just didn't work. I like the idea of him pushing up with the defence and acting as a third CB or a playmaker in that position. The issue for me is that we don't move enough the higher up the pitch we go. Antony, Martial, and Rashford all need to be making space or finding gaps. Same for Eriksen, Bruno, and Casemiro actually. And the full backs.
Basically, it's a great tactic that only works if the players move and can control the ball. Our players don't move and don't control the ball all that well.
End of the day the team is struggling to understand how to build up any sort of attack. Onana is doing just fine.
One of our best players this early part of the season. Not saying much but he’s been alright. Not expecting him to be peak De Gea shot stopping.
We got spoilt for a few years with De Gea but not the last few years. He declined massively to the point average keepers were better all round.
He’s a good keeper not a great one and that’s expected.
One of our best players this early part of the season. Not saying much but he’s been alright. Not expecting him to be peak De Gea shot stopping.
We got spoilt for a few years with De Gea but not the last few years. He declined massively to the point average keepers were better all round.
He’s a good keeper not a great one and that’s expected.
He’s class.
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