[El Jefe]

De Gea saves the Rice shot but let’s be honest we would’ve had more pressure and less possession if DDG was there and probably concede in another way.

Onana does a lot of things well but his average shot stopping makes you question his value in additional points gained to the team.

He’s a lot like Ederson to me with the difference being his team doesn’t really dominate possession. Even when he was as Inter he had a lot of protection from the 3 CBS and DMs. If we’re a team that are going to face a lot of shots like we’ve done to start the season he’s the wrong keeper and we should’ve kept DDG instead.

EtH needs to sort out the defence and midfield to make us more difficult to get through.

 

[Gordon Godot]

De Gea saves the Rice shot but let’s be honest we would’ve had more pressure and less possession if DDG was there and probably concede in another way.

Onana does a lot of things well but his average shot stopping makes you question his value in additional points gained to the team.

He’s a lot like Ederson to me with the difference being his team doesn’t really dominate possession. Even when he was as Inter he had a lot of protection from the 3 CBS and DMs. If we’re a team that are going to face a lot of shots like we’ve done to start the season he’s the wrong keeper and we should’ve kept DDG instead.

EtH needs to sort out the defence and midfield to make us more difficult to get through.

Who knows if DDG saves it, his shot stopping had become erratic. The deflection was crucial. If DDG played we hoof it long all day and probably get hammered.

 

[meamth]

Strange opinion in a match where Onana used his body/feet to good effect when making a save from Saka. He likes using his feet to make saves when that’s an option. Also did it a few times against Wolves. There was no way he could have used his feet to save a shot that crossed the line at almost waist height though. The deflection killed him anyway.

Yeah I meant classic De Gea's standing save pose.Where he opens his body and preparing his legs. If you know what I mean.

I have nothing against Onana, he is an upgrade, but that was saveable.

 

[bosnian_red]

They didn't press as they normally do. Even Neville mentioned it. They committed less men to it and we had a simple pass between Onana > Eriksen > AWB as Martinelli closed Onana down and left AWB. It wasn't an aggressive press by their standards and they didn't commit many men to it, hence us having clear routes out all the time. Maybe they didn't commit because we've got Onana, but other teams have had success this season by pressing. Commentators thought maybe due to heat but I think Arsenal were trying to make sure they didn't lose and wanted to nullify our counter first and foremost.

They tried a few times throughout the game especially early, it just wasn't successful so they adapted. It definitely wasn't a preference choice, as they destroyed us last season by pressing us high and forcing constant turnovers. That didn't happen yesterday almost entirely because of Onana.

Don't think we've really struggled under the press this season at all. We've struggled to stop transitions mainly, and been horrid at set pieces as always.

 

[RuudTom83]

They tried a few times throughout the game especially early, it just wasn't successful so they adapted. It definitely wasn't a preference choice, as they destroyed us last season by pressing us high and forcing constant turnovers. That didn't happen yesterday almost entirely because of Onana.

Don't think we've really struggled under the press this season at all. We've struggled to stop transitions mainly, and been horrid at set pieces as always.

100%

To much was made of Arsenal NOT doing the pressing, instead of pointing out whenever they tried Onana just negated it pretty easily so Arsenal stopped doing it or were more selective when they did.

 

[flameinthesun]

They didn't press as they normally do. Even Neville mentioned it. They committed less men to it and we had a simple pass between Onana > Eriksen > AWB as Martinelli closed Onana down and left AWB. It wasn't an aggressive press by their standards and they didn't commit many men to it, hence us having clear routes out all the time. Maybe they didn't commit because we've got Onana, but other teams have had success this season by pressing. Commentators thought maybe due to heat but I think Arsenal were trying to make sure they didn't lose and wanted to nullify our counter first and foremost.

Whether it was intentional or not by Arsenal Onana made a difference to what they wanted to do. For those saying Arsenal didn't press us high, they clearly did in the first half especially early on. There are mutliple occasions where Onana has the ball and their players are pretty much on the penalty box. After about 20 minutes it looked like they dropped off to a mid press as we were simply passing it through their forward line press.

It is so strange seeing downplaying of Onana on the ball. Yesterday was he was even more dominant on the ball. That was the first time in an away match to a big team where we looked calm and not really under pressure for large parts of the game. Yes that didn't translate further up the picth but that has nothing to do with Onana. He has made a clear visible impact.

 

[bosnian_red]

100%

To much was made of Arsenal NOT doing the pressing, instead of pointing out whenever they tried Onana just negated it pretty easily so Arsenal stopped doing it or were more selective when they did.

Yeah. It was very refreshing as essentially we were able to go toe to toe with a big club, and not really just sit deep and just get killed by a constant high press like what happened countless times last season. That's a key step to being a top club, as you just can't be one if you crumble under a press like we used to. We still kept the ball at the back a lot rather then in the mid and attack, but that changed dramatically with Hojlund in. Also big change when we have amrabat and mount to pick from. The lack of midfield depth killed us yesterday in terms of keeping energy throughout the 90, and while we were able to move up the pitch far more easily with Hojlund out there, the midfield looked dead tired so it was nullified a bit.

 

[RuudTom83]

Yeah. It was very refreshing as essentially we were able to go toe to toe with a big club, and not really just sit deep and just get killed by a constant high press like what happened countless times last season. That's a key step to being a top club, as you just can't be one if you crumble under a press like we used to. We still kept the ball at the back a lot rather then in the mid and attack, but that changed dramatically with Hojlund in. Also big change when we have amrabat and mount to pick from. The lack of midfield depth killed us yesterday in terms of keeping energy throughout the 90, and while we were able to move up the pitch far more easily with Hojlund out there, the midfield looked dead tired so it was nullified a bit.

100%

Imagine if EtH had Mount, Amrabat and Hojlund on the bench yesterday. Hard to argue it wouldn't of made a difference.

Plus the CB's dropping every 30 mins with injuries...it was a cruel game in terms injuries and missing players. Not an excuse as you rarely have a full squad to pick from, but it was a legitimate reason for the result.

If you can look past the disappointment then the match had a lot of positives yesterday.

 

[Amir]

ough with the deflections, but I'm not sure if he is technically good enough with his shot stopping.

Take away his distribution,

 

[bosnian_red]

100%

Imagine if EtH had Mount, Amrabat and Hojlund on the bench yesterday. Hard to argue it wouldn't of made a difference.

Plus the CB's dropping every 30 mins with injuries...it was a cruel game in terms injuries and missing players. Not an excuse as you rarely have a full squad to pick from, but it was a legitimate reason for the result.

If you can look past the disappointment then the match had a lot of positives yesterday.

Yeah you don't want to make excuses as our big game results simply have to end without excuses... But it was very clearly some extenuating circumstances. Basically 4 main center backs injured, one being the starting left back but then also the backup left back, our 2 midfield signings unavailable, our striker only just now fit to be able to sub in... It is what it is, but it's tough to play away to Arsenal with deep backups in key positions like that and not being able to freshen up the midfield like they did.
We kept it at an even game, luck wasn't on our side and those last 10 minutes were entirely about luck. Their corner for the goal wasn't a corner in the first place, ball didn't touch anyone. Our goal was the narrowest of margins offside which again, is essentially just luck if he's on or off, and then the 3rd is obviously just throwing bodies forward and leaving it all open at the back.

 

[Borys]

They tried a few times throughout the game especially early, it just wasn't successful so they adapted. It definitely wasn't a preference choice, as they destroyed us last season by pressing us high and forcing constant turnovers. That didn't happen yesterday almost entirely because of Onana.

Don't think we've really struggled under the press this season at all. We've struggled to stop transitions mainly, and been horrid at set pieces as always.

Bingo.
On the bolded part, Mount needs to adapt to B2B role ASAP. The way we play from the back now with Onana giving the numerical advantage and passing, this team is screaming for a ball carrier in the middle. This doesn't seem like the plan for ETH (as Mount has been mostly deployed very high), but I strongly believe this is what we need to do. Casemiro/Eriksen are not the guys to do it.

 

[Cassidy]

Tough with the deflections, but I'm not sure if he is technically good enough with his shot stopping.

Take away his distribution, he has been a net negative this season.

I agree he needs to improve his shot stopping, or at very least his one on ones

 

[Cassidy]

Bingo.
On the bolded part, Mount needs to adapt to B2B role ASAP. The way we play from the back now with Onana giving the numerical advantage and passing, this team is screaming for a ball carrier in the middle. This doesn't seem like the plan for ETH (as Mount has been mostly deployed very high), but I strongly believe this is what we need to do. Casemiro/Eriksen are not the guys to do it.

Amrabat and Mainoo are not Mount

 

[bosnian_red]

Bingo.
On the bolded part, Mount needs to adapt to B2B role ASAP. The way we play from the back now with Onana giving the numerical advantage and passing, this team is screaming for a ball carrier in the middle. This doesn't seem like the plan for ETH (as Mount has been mostly deployed very high), but I strongly believe this is what we need to do. Casemiro/Eriksen are not the guys to do it.

I really do like mount tbh, but amrabat is gonna have a bigger impact with this. He's someone who likes to pick it up deep and skip past some challenges to progress through that 2nd phase. Mount helps a lot with his pressing in transitions and his work rate back, and on the ball he's good under pressure, but he tends to keep it simple and quick rather than be a playmaker.

 

[Borys]

Amrabat and Mainoo are not Mount

I really do like mount tbh, but amrabat is gonna have a bigger impact with this. He's someone who likes to pick it up deep and skip past some challenges to progress through that 2nd phase. Mount helps a lot with his pressing in transitions and his work rate back, and on the ball he's good under pressure, but he tends to keep it simple and quick rather than be a playmaker.

I don't know much about Amrabat so I don't want to put too much hopes on him until I see him play football for us. I don't think Mount is that player currently, but IMO he will have to adapt. Not only we need a ball carrier/progressor from deeper areas, but also I completely don't get the setup in which he plays high up the pitch (especially with Bruno also on the pitch).

 

[Cassidy]

I don't know much about Amrabat so I don't want to put too much hopes on him until I see him play football for us. I don't think Mount is that player currently, but IMO he will have to adapt. Not only we need a ball carrier/progressor from deeper areas, but also I completely don't get the setup in which he plays high up the pitch (especially with Bruno also on the pitch).

Amrabat is definitely this type and so is Mainoo.

I don't think Mount will be playing with Bruno as 2 8s high up the pitch a lot this season, and I honestly believe if he had not got injured Mainoo would have started the season in the 11
The Arsenal game in pre season gives a taste of what we'll be going for in my opinion.

Mount to me was brought in to give competition to Bruno and also allow for him to be injured/rested and can when ETH wants to provide tactical flexibility. We had zero cover for Bruno last season

 

[croadyman]

People have turned on him already,he needs a big performance after international break to fan the flames. Notice our African friends on FB conveniently forget what DDG was like in first season when slagging him off

 

[Drizzle]

I think he's been a bit unlucky with goals conceded, and having a makeshift defence in front of him isn't helping. His only dodgy performance for me was the Forest game. Other than that he's been solid, and his distribution has been levels above what we're used to. I'm happy with him so far.

 

[Borys]

Amrabat is definitely this type and so is Mainoo.

I don't think Mount will be playing with Bruno as 2 8s high up the pitch a lot this season, and I honestly believe if he had not got injured Mainoo would have started the season in the 11
The Arsenal game in pre season gives a taste of what we'll be going for in my opinion.

Mount to me was brought in to give competition to Bruno and also allow for him to be injured/rested and can when ETH wants to provide tactical flexibility. We had zero cover for Bruno last season

I never quite understood why we can't play Eriksen in his "original" attacking midfielder position. So he can play #8 (who has a lot more defensive responsibilities) but can't cover for Bruno? Not to mention Bruno has fantastic fitness levels, what really would make Mount an "opportunity" purchase.

For that reason I find it hard to believe Mount was brought as Bruno cover. At least I don't think this was the initial idea from Ten Hag. How he ends up is a completely different chapter to the story (I believe he will be another AM turned into a midfielder, it works every time for us).

 

[Cassidy]

I never quite understood why we can't play Eriksen in his "original" attacking midfielder position. So he can play #8 (who has a lot more defensive responsibilities) but can't cover for Bruno? Not to mention Bruno has fantastic fitness levels, what really would make Mount an "opportunity" purchase.

For that reason I find it hard to believe Mount was brought as Bruno cover. At least I don't think this was the initial idea from Ten Hag. How he ends up is a completely different chapter to the story (I believe he will be another AM turned into a midfielder, it works every time for us).

If you consider that fact he would have wanted all his signings in for pre season and also that he expected Mainoo to be fit.
Add to the fact that he has specifically said on multiple occasions we need to players for every position. I think its naive to say that.

Also Eriksen is playing deeper because no one else can, do you remember start of last season when Eriksen was playing as a 6, then we signed Casemiro?
You think the intention was to play Eriksen as his holding midfielder?

 

[Borys]

If you consider that fact he would have wanted all his signings in for pre season and also that he expected Mainoo to be fit.
Add to the fact that he has specifically said on multiple occasions we need to players for every position. I think its naive to say that.

Also Eriksen is playing deeper because no one else can, do you remember start of last season when Eriksen was playing as a 6, then we signed Casemiro?
You think the intention was to play Eriksen as his holding midfielder?

Naive to say what? I don't get it.

Yes I think the intention was to play Eriksen deeper (since we couldn't get De Jong), because I certainly don't think the intention was to buy any CDM before we got trashed in the opening games. Maybe I missed something but it appeared to me we stumbled upon Casemiro being available.

So do you think the plan for this season was to play

Casemiro - Amrabat (Mainoo)
Bruno (Mount)​

?
That might be the case but I think (and many wise people on this board) it's "clear" ETH wants to have two attacking #8s (although they are #10s really) ahead of Casemiro. It looked like we really did try this out in initial games of the season, and now we will be doing adjustments (like last season after a few games).

 

[Cassidy]

Naive to say what? I don't get it.

Yes I think the intention was to play Eriksen deeper (since we couldn't get De Jong), because I certainly don't think the intention was to buy any CDM before we got trashed in the opening games. Maybe I missed something but it appeared to me we stumbled upon Casemiro being available.

So do you think the plan for this season was to play

Casemiro - Amrabat (Mainoo)
Bruno (Mount)​

?
That might be the case but I think (and many wise people on this board) it's "clear" ETH wants to have two attacking #8s (although they are #10s really) ahead of Casemiro. It looked like we really did try this out in initial games of the season, and now we will be doing adjustments (like last season after a few games).

We signed Eriksen with the intention of also signing FDJ.
I am saying Eriksen played as a 6 at the start of the season because ETH was let down by the club and didn't have his signings ready.
Eriksen was always going to play as an 8 box to box.

Same thing happened this summer, with Amrabat and Mount. ETH improvised as he usually does and it didn't work out

 

[Borys]

We signed Eriksen with the intention of also signing FDJ.
I am saying Eriksen played as a 6 at the start of the season because ETH was let down by the club and didn't have his signings ready.

Same thing happened this summer, with Amrabat and Mount

He did prioritize Mount, correct? Mason was after all twice as expensive as Amrabat. I think the idea that Mount only came as Bruno replacement and Amrabat is supposed to play in midfield two is far stretched. My theory is Amrabat was considered as Casemiro backup (didn't ETH recently refer to him as a #6?), therefore wasn't as high on priority list as Mount. Now things might change because we looked terrible in that setup with #6 and two attacking #8s.
So I expect ETH to switch to a more pragmatic approach, and same thing happened last season.

 

[Woodzy]

I shit my pants every time he casually walked with the ball at his feet despite the Arsenal forwards being so close. The guy is cool as feck.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think he's awesome, his ability to pick passes and remain calm is excellent.

 

[OrcaFat]

Yeah you don't want to make excuses as our big game results simply have to end without excuses... But it was very clearly some extenuating circumstances. Basically 4 main center backs injured, one being the starting left back but then also the backup left back, our 2 midfield signings unavailable, our striker only just now fit to be able to sub in... It is what it is, but it's tough to play away to Arsenal with deep backups in key positions like that and not being able to freshen up the midfield like they did.
We kept it at an even game, luck wasn't on our side and those last 10 minutes were entirely about luck. Their corner for the goal wasn't a corner in the first place, ball didn't touch anyone. Our goal was the narrowest of margins offside which again, is essentially just luck if he's on or off, and then the 3rd is obviously just throwing bodies forward and leaving it all open at the back.

I can’t understand why the term “excuse” or “no excuse” is used when talking about injuries.

Do you have a better chance of winning with Varane and Martinez or with Evans and Maguire? It’s a fair question ffs.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

De Gea saves the Rice shot but let’s be honest we would’ve had more pressure and less possession if DDG was there and probably concede in another way.

Onana does a lot of things well but his average shot stopping makes you question his value in additional points gained to the team.

The argument has always been about a) his overall qualities and/or b) his suitability for a more modern * tactical approach (where the keeper is tasked with much more than simply making saves and dealing with corners).

Bottom line: it was 100% the correct decision to let DDG go. Whether Onana was the optimal replacement remains to be seen, of course. And whether DDG might have, possibly, saved an individual shot here and there is obviously utterly irrelevant.

DDG was an exceptional shot stopper in his prime (or, if you will, he had exceptional reactions as a keeper on, or near, the line). That was his only exceptional trait. Read that again: it was his only exceptional trait. He had literally no other traits you'd want in a top keeper in any era: and yes, the last part is important. It wasn't simply a matter of him not being a ball playing, passing sweeper-keeper - it was much more fundamental: he was average at best at a) crosses b) corners and c) most importantly, commanding his area in general, being a defensive leader.

Before anyone accuses me of hating DDG - I don't. I consider him a truly great shot stopper. I also consider him a player who would've enjoyed a very different reputation among football fans in general if he'd been a bit more lucky with how things went for United post Fergie. I don't even have a problem with people calling him a "United legend", because that term has different meanings for different people, and DDG was at United for many years.

But he was never anywhere near the overall quality of certain past United keepers. And - again - it was absolutely right to let him go.


* Of course, this isn't actually modern, but whatever - this isn't a lesson in football history.

 

[JediSith]

Posted this in the post match thread. My only negative surprise with Onana has been the way the he deals with 1v1. Only two examples so a small sample set.

The goal Vs Nottingham Forest when he fell on his backside, I was very surprised that he didn’t run out more to close the distance.

Also for Jesus’ goal I felt like he could have rushed out, narrowed the angle, and put pressure on Jesus.

Im not saying doing so would have prevented either of the two goals but they do make things more difficult. Instead he appeared to be more like DDG in holding the line and just hoping for a bad shot or great save.

That has been a bit of a surprise. Based on his style of play and dealing with crosses I thought he’d be more Big Pete like in those situations.

 

[CoopersDream]

What does it matter what de Gea would have saved or what cross de Gea wouldn't have claimed? He is not here anymore and we got Onana now. I was a big fan of de Gea, but we have now moved on and all that matters is what Onana brings. As of yet he has been very solid shot stopper with great short passing. Unforunately the rest of the team isn't quite good enough to play the possession game we want, but Onana does his part very well.

 

[Bobski]

The thing is, it wasn't as if he was pulling out high risk passes through the lines. It was just composure, comfort in having the ball at feet and not feeling panicked into going long as soon as an Arsenal player turned towards him. Led to a lot of passive deep possession that stopped Arsenal from building momentum. Wasn't the most engaging style to watch but you could see the tactical value it can have.

 

[Chairman Steve]

I love watching him. It’s compelling watching a goalkeeper be so confident on the ball and make ridiculous passes that only the very best outfield players can make. After years of DDG, its so alien to watch a goalkeeper do the things he does.

 

[Malone_Post]

De Gea saves the Rice shot

The way he saved Gündoğan’s goals in the cup final that were hit from outside the area rather then 6 yards out, nowhere near as venomous and didn’t get a deflection a yard or two in front of him? Or how about Benrahma's tame 30 yard hit and hope that he let roll into the net away to West Ham? Or maybe Brentford’s first goal in the 4-0 that he dived over and let squirm under his body?

De Gea fans lost all ability to claim he would save this that and the other after the last few years. De Gea of circa 17/18? Yes quite possibly. The De Gea since then? Very unlikely.

I can't believe there's even a smidgen of discontent to be heard here with Onana. I think he's been absolutely fantastic so far, as good as a goalkeeper with their feet as I've ever seen. The relief our defence must feel knowing they can knock it back to him and start again.

Its absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Todd]

He's great playing the ball on the ground, but surely others have noticed that basically every time he plays the ball in the air it goes straight to an opponent?

In the first half alone the other day it must've happened 5 times.

He needs to focus on playing the ball on the ground only.

 

[Remember the geese]

He's great playing the ball on the ground, but surely others have noticed that basically every time he plays the ball in the air it goes straight to an opponent?

In the first half alone the other day it must've happened 5 times.

He needs to focus on playing the ball on the ground only.

It's because we are poor in the air and lack players who can compete physically when it comes to holding up the ball. We looked more threatening with Højlund on the pitch. Onana is used to having guys like Dzeko and Lukaku.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

He’s so much fun. Great signing.

 

[Isotope]

He’s so much fun. Great signing.

Priority wise aside, yes, he's an excellent signing.

 

[Swordsman]

if a prime DDG shot stopping is 10/10, Onana shot stopping is 6/10 at best..

 

[Swordsman]

De Gea saves the Rice shot but let’s be honest we would’ve had more pressure and less possession if DDG was there and probably concede in another way.

Onana does a lot of things well but his average shot stopping makes you question his value in additional points gained to the team.

He’s a lot like Ederson to me with the difference being his team doesn’t really dominate possession. Even when he was as Inter he had a lot of protection from the 3 CBS and DMs. If we’re a team that are going to face a lot of shots like we’ve done to start the season he’s the wrong keeper and we should’ve kept DDG instead.

EtH needs to sort out the defence and midfield to make us more difficult to get through.

when DDG was at his prime (2017) he could have saved those shots.

 

[Drizzle]

if a prime DDG shot stopping is 10/10, Onana shot stopping is 6/10 at best..

And 2023 De Gea is also about a 6/10.

 

[quadrant]

Been our player of the season so far. Arsenal's pressing is among the best in the league and his ability on the ball just completely negated it. Given our complete inability to handle even a modest press in recent years, that's some turnaround.