[Oranges038]

I’m surprised to hear people saying he could have closed the gap further. I was a fairly high level keeper (in the US) and I’ll share my perspective:

1. That pass was so good that Bowen could have taken it first time. As a keeper, if the first time strike is on then you have to set yourself, which is exactly what Onana did. By definition that halts forward momentum. You’ll notice Onana didn’t transition from his set stance to spread himself bigger until Bowen took the first touch - which is textbook. If the quality of the pass is worse (too strong, behind the forward, too far wide, etc) then you can keep closing. But if the pass is inch perfect at the right height/direction/pace for a first time strike, the time window to close the forward is compressed.

2. He still closed down the angle enough to save the initial shot, which was at point blank range because of Bowen’s first touch. Anytime you save a truly point blank attempt (I.e., when the time between when the shot is taken and the ball reaches you is faster than reaction times) you are not in control of the rebound direction because you can’t change the angle of the relevant body part in time. I think part of the issue here is that Onana has shown a tendency to parry into bad areas before, and so people are extrapolating that’s what happened here too. But the nature of the shot/save here were different and I don’t see any issue with how he played it.

Anyway, maybe my context is helpful here, maybe not, but do think this passage of play had nuances that are worth calling out. Feel free to write this off as “goalkeepers union” but I think he played it well.

Good points.

It was a quality pass and he did everything that he could but got really unlucky with the rebound, it happens.

 

[CasaStreets]

I'm sure I, and a lot if others, would be very interested on your insights into the high profile perceived (many of which are actual) errors that Onana has made this season, especially in the Champions League.

It would be great to get a more professional view on his general ability, qualities, or lack thereof.

Retrospectively there would be a lot to cover (many errors, as you said) and it’s the holidays, so I’ll just try to write more in here as we go. I’m not always the most frequent contributor, as you can tell from my post count over the last 17 years ha

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

The God's honest truth of the matter is that we're conceding so many shots that, at times, it's just inevitable that there will be some that go in that Onana "could be doing better with".

We've conceded the fourth most shots in the Premier League this season, as per WhoScored. Even a top performing goalkeeper is going to concede their fair share of goals in this side; it just isn't feasible to expect otherwise.

I don't think Onana has had a great start to his United career but I do feel we are now getting to the point where people are looking for things to criticise him for.

 

[Matt Varnish]

I'll ask again.

Do you honestly believe, when Bowen shoots from 1 yard away, and the ball deflects off the goalkeeper's leg, a keeper should have the necessary reaction time to push the ball out wide away from goal? Your reaction suggests you're actually embarrassed to say that's what you believe, because you've realised how absurd it actually is.

No I'm laughing at you, because literally other goalkeepers save that shot every week.
Other keepers manage to parry the ball out of the danger area, Onana doesn't.
Other keepers come off their line and challenge forwards, Onana doesn't
Can you see a common thread here, Onana is not a shop stopper.
You need to take those rose tinted glasses off.
It's a matter of opinions, I don't rate him, you do, and you are in a minority on here and other forums.

 

[Matt Varnish]

The level of dishonesty it takes to suggest he "pats" the ball back to Bowen.

Bowen shoots from 1 yard away from him. Onana hold his body position and saves it with his leg, and the ball rebounds from his leg to his hand with the distance between his leg and his hand being about 20cm at a push.

You can't honestly be suggesting when Bowen shoots from 1 yard away from him and the ball deflects from his leg to his hand, he has enough time to push the ball away from goal with his hand? I can't believe anyone truly believes this.

I've been slating Onana for the errors he's actually made but this thread is just ridiculous now. In the eyes of the fans he should apparently have saved every single goal we concede.

I don't slate him for every goal we concede, there have been some that a DDG or even a Schmiechel in his prime would have seen the net bulge, it happens.
What I see however is times when he should be making a better effort to stop a shot, or even prevent a shot happening, his overall positioning and awareness of what is happening around him seems off.
Yesterday I firmly believe that DDG, VDS or Schmiechel would have stopped both of those, either by positioning, or by smothering the ball.
It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, the same as you are entitled to yours.

 

[lex talionis]

I don't slate him for every goal we concede, there have been some that a DDG or even a Schmiechel in his prime would have seen the net bulge, it happens.
What I see however is times when he should be making a better effort to stop a shot, or even prevent a shot happening, his overall positioning and awareness of what is happening around him seems off.
Yesterday I firmly believe that DDG, VDS or Schmiechel would have stopped both of those, either by positioning, or by smothering the ball.
It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, the same as you are entitled to yours.

Prime Dave would have saved both shots. The Dave of last season absolutely smothers Bowen on what was the first goal but probably doesn’t get to the Kudus shot. With Onana, who made some good saves, he’s never going to make the stop on either. We just have to accept this is how it’s going to be until we find a successor to Onana when his contract runs out.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Prime Dave would have saved both shots. The Dave of last season absolutely smothers Bowen on what was the first goal but probably doesn’t get to the Kudus shot. With Onana, who made some good saves, he’s never going to make the stop on either. We just have to accept this is how it’s going to be until we find a successor to Onana when his contract runs out.

 

[Remember the geese]

The Dave of last season absolutely smothers Bowen

De Gea is afraid of physical contact. He would have held onto his near post for dear life!

 

[sullydnl]

Prime Dave would have saved both shots. The Dave of last season absolutely smothers Bowen on what was the first goal but probably doesn’t get to the Kudus shot. With Onana, who made some good saves, he’s never going to make the stop on either. We just have to accept this is how it’s going to be until we find a successor to Onana when his contract runs out.

The idea that De Gea would be more likely than Onana to smother an attacker in a close range 1v1 is one of the wilder takes in this thread.

 

[sebsheep]

I don't slate him for every goal we concede, there have been some that a DDG or even a Schmiechel in his prime would have seen the net bulge, it happens.
What I see however is times when he should be making a better effort to stop a shot, or even prevent a shot happening, his overall positioning and awareness of what is happening around him seems off.
Yesterday I firmly believe that DDG, VDS or Schmiechel would have stopped both of those, either by positioning, or by smothering the ball.
It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, the same as you are entitled to yours.

Mate you blamed him for all 3 goals we conceded against Bournemouth, it's getting weird.

 

[Kostov]

The idea that De Gea would be more likely than Onana to smother an attacker in a close range 1v1 is one of the wilder takes in this thread.

DDG at 55 will probably still be better at 1on 1 than Onana currently is.

I'll ask again.

Do you honestly believe, when Bowen shoots from 1 yard away, and the ball deflects off the goalkeeper's leg, a keeper should have the necessary reaction time to push the ball out wide away from goal? Your reaction suggests you're actually embarrassed to say that's what you believe, because you've realised how absurd it actually is.

Please tell us how often do you see a top GK being beaten in the manner Onana was for that first goal? He like the entire back line had a proper look at the runner going into the box. He neither goes out to rush to the ball and neither covers his near post closer to the goal line. Gets caught in no men’s land with a lame attempt to do anything. How is that good enough?

 

[rimaldo]

Nope. Saves it with his leg. The ball then pops up, hits his hand and bounces back to Bowen. At that range all a keeper can do is get something in the way. Which is exactly what he did, only to get undone by a freak ricochet. Have you been influenced by MOTD? Because the commentator there was just making the same ridiculous claim about weak hands. He’s a renowned idiot though.

incorrect. i’ve analysed the goal and compared it to similar saves on other similar shots that didn’t result in a goals. you’ll be shocked to learn that goalkeepers who saved 100% of the efforts on target didn’t concede. onana belongs in the group of 100% of goalkeepers that conceded goals from that type of shot.

 

[Dominos]

I don't slate him for every goal we concede, there have been some that a DDG or even a Schmiechel in his prime would have seen the net bulge, it happens.
What I see however is times when he should be making a better effort to stop a shot, or even prevent a shot happening, his overall positioning and awareness of what is happening around him seems off.
Yesterday I firmly believe that DDG, VDS or Schmiechel would have stopped both of those, either by positioning, or by smothering the ball.
It's my opinion, I'm entitled to it, the same as you are entitled to yours.

If your argument is he should be quicker and more aggressive to get closer to Bowen, then fair enough.

What was originally argued is he "pats" the ball back to Bowen which is just a flat out lie. The ball deflects to his hand with zero time to react. Given how it played out, it's impossible for him to push the ball out wide away from goal given he has no control over where the ball lands, given he's facing a shot from 1 yard out.

 

[Dominos]

DDG at 55 will probably still be better at 1on 1 than Onana currently is.

Please tell us how often do you see a top GK being beaten in the manner Onana was for that first goal? He like the entire back line had a proper look at the runner going into the box. He neither goes out to rush to the ball and neither covers his near post closer to the goal line. Gets caught in no men’s land with a lame attempt to do anything. How is that good enough?

Well, occasionally when a player shoots from 1 yard away the ball bounces off the keeper back to the attacker. You can say it rarely happens to other top goalkeepers which is correct, but it's also pretty rare that Onana has to save a shot from 1 yard away and it bounces back to the attacker, that's called variance. Onana probably won't concede another goal like that for a long time where the ball ricochets off him back to the attacker from 1 yard away, it's just a scenario that happens to be very rare all round.

If your argument is he should charge out quicker and get even closer to Bowen, fair enough.

But blaming him because the ball bounced back to the attacker is just ridiculous, as played he has no control over where the ball bounces when he makes the save, there is zero time to react.

 

[Dominos]

No I'm laughing at you, because literally other goalkeepers save that shot every week.
Other keepers manage to parry the ball out of the danger area, Onana doesn't.
Other keepers come off their line and challenge forwards, Onana doesn't
Can you see a common thread here, Onana is not a shop stopper.
You need to take those rose tinted glasses off.
It's a matter of opinions, I don't rate him, you do, and you are in a minority on here and other forums.

You're just making stuff up. When did I say I rate him?

I don't rate him in the slightest on what I've seen so far.

However, that doesn't mean every goal we concede he should save.

Again, your assertion that he should just simply push the ball out wide when the attacker has shot from 1 yard away is ridiculous, and the fact you keep deflecting suggests you've realised how absurd it is.

 

[Dominos]

Prime Dave would have saved both shots. The Dave of last season absolutely smothers Bowen on what was the first goal

The idea that De Gea would be more likely than Onana to smother an attacker in a close range 1v1 is one of the wilder takes in this thread.

If there's one thing you can credit De Gea for, it's certainly not his bravery

 

[Sky1981]

The God's honest truth of the matter is that we're conceding so many shots that, at times, it's just inevitable that there will be some that go in that Onana "could be doing better with".

We've conceded the fourth most shots in the Premier League this season, as per WhoScored. Even a top performing goalkeeper is going to concede their fair share of goals in this side; it just isn't feasible to expect otherwise.

I don't think Onana has had a great start to his United career but I do feel we are now getting to the point where people are looking for things to criticise him for.

Yes. Having a weak keeper is the reason why clubs are taking potshots

 

[Grande]

This is why I wrote out #2, cause lots of people are probably thinking this, but it’s just not how it works in these types of extremely close-range situations as a keeper. Diagnoses like he does or doesn’t have “strong hands” are useless and you lose all value and nuance. The nature of the pass, the transition from set to spread stances, blocking with his leg which lifted it against his hand, etc.

The truth is that the jury is still out on Onana and he’s provided plenty of reasons to doubt him, including his shot parrying in past matches, but that’s not the case here for all the reasons I already mentioned.



Kudus is moving wide of both defenders and so Onana is expecting one or both defenders to reduce the chances of the shot across his body.

As you say, the shot is very low, has gone through Evans legs, from 16 yards, across Onana’s body, and hit side-netting. Did he cheat left? Looks like he very slightly did to me. Is that reasonable in the circumstances? Of course because the defenders’ position was favorable to protect far post and the easier shot for Kudus at the angle he was moving was near post. Am I certain that he cheated the perfect amount? No, mostly because it’s hard to tell even with the replays - but from what I can see his positioning is reasonable.

I will say that I thought Evans should have gone tighter to Kudus (he’s fully 5 yards in from Kudus at the time of the strike) given that he had cover, which might have improved his chances of blocking the shot, but at the end of the day it was a Mainoo error (not upset, young and learning) and a brilliant piece of play by Kudus…

Yea, I can go with everything you said there.

 

[Kostov]

Well, occasionally when a player shoots from 1 yard away the ball bounces off the keeper back to the attacker. You can say it rarely happens to other top goalkeepers which is correct, but it's also pretty rare that Onana has to save a shot from 1 yard away and it bounces back to the attacker, that's called variance. Onana probably won't concede another goal like that for a long time where the ball ricochets off him back to the attacker from 1 yard away, it's just a scenario that happens to be very rare all round.

If your argument is he should charge out quicker and get even closer to Bowen, fair enough.

But blaming him because the ball bounced back to the attacker is just ridiculous, as played he has no control over where the ball bounces when he makes the save, there is zero time to react.

The ball bouncing back the way it did is a combination of back luck, with bad reaction, bad positioning and all round poor goalkeeping. Good GKs tend to leave very little to luck. Onana doing what he did, 1.5 from the goal line and standing still, and still beaten to his first post, pure crap.

 

[sebsheep]

Yes. Having a weak keeper is the reason why clubs are taking potshots

Do you have any numbers to back this up?

 

[lex talionis]

If there's one thing you can credit De Gea for, it's certainly not his bravery

Dave was undeniably averse to mixing it up with the crowd on crosses, but he was very good in handling 1v1 situations. The false narrative is what got us into this fukking mess at keeper now. As I wrote before Onana can’t be blamed for either goal, but a better keeper would have dealt with Bowen.

 

[sullydnl]

If there's one thing you can credit De Gea for, it's certainly not his bravery

Even leaving his bravery aside, his approach to 1v1s was always to err on the side of holding position and trying to make a save rather than trying to close down the attacker. It's why he did better at longer range 1v1s than closer ones. "Smothering the attacker" just wasn't something he was good at.

 

[sebsheep]

6 of these we'd be getting "De Gea would've saved that" for.

 

[Kostov]

Even leaving his bravery aside, his approach to 1v1s was always to err on the side of holding position and trying to make a save rather than trying to close down the attacker. It's why he did better at longer range 1v1s than closer ones. "Smothering the attacker" just wasn't something he was good at.

Whatever he was doing, he was absolutely miles ahead compared to whatever "modern keeper" Onana is doing. And yes we are talking about last season DDG, never mind the god like version we got previously.

 

[lex talionis]

Whatever he was doing, he was absolutely miles ahead compared to whatever "modern keeper" Onana is doing. And yes we are talking about last season DDG, never mind the god like version we got previously.

Thank you fire reminding me about the “modern keeper” mantra we kept hearing from the hipsters in the frenzy over the signing of Onana. A keeper’s top priority, in the ancient days and now, is to stop shots. Yes of course you want your keeper to do it all — Alisson scoring the header v West Brom I believe it was, was the stuff of legend — but if you struggle stopping shots I don’t give a fukk how modern you are as a keeper.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

That's funny because Alisson is the epitome of a "modern" keeper. You'd also think that De Gea's current job status shows you a thing or two about how top clubs approach the role nowadays.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Strange Gk.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Stop. Guessing. On. Shots.

 

[Winrar]

Got away with it this time around.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Made this the most interesting Boxing day I can remember...

 

[Oranges038]

First goal he should be meeting that ball with his fists at least. Shag all he could do about the second.

Other than the first goal he was fine, made at least 1 really good save and his passing and composure on the ball was pretty good.

 

[The Oracle]

First goal he should be meeting that ball with his fists at least. Shag all he could do about the second.

Other than the first goal he was fine, made at least 1 really good save and his passing and composure on the ball was pretty good.

Came here to say the same.

 

[King Eric 7]

Mixed game, good overall. He badly needs competition and we normally have a decent back up keeper.

 

[Irwin99]

Disregarding some very uncertain moments, with Villa playing that defensive line there was space for him to ping some decent passes which is what we bought him for. Decent save in the second half too.

 

[r0663664]

I really hate his game, he constantly put defenders and midfielders under pressure. That stupid pass to Mainoo is exactly the same pass where Casemiro got a red card. Erik needs to tell him to cut such stupid mental lapse. Pretty poor goalkeeper for 50 million pound. What a stupid buy!

 

[NewGlory]

I don't care if Heaton starts or Bayindir, but there's no way we can start Onana again, any time soon. He's been given way too many chances and enough is enough

 

[Pickle85]

Mixed game, good overall. He badly needs competition and we normally have a decent back up keeper.

Not sure I agree here...he hardly looks complacent, given how much everyone has been on his back. With him I think you just get what you get: a keeper that's decent with his feet, a reasonable shot stopper but with some dodgy fundamentals and prone to a few rickets. If we were the sort of team that were able to play to his strengths a little more and exposed his (often obvious) deficiencies a little less, he'd be brilliant. As it is, he'll continue to be a bit up and down

 

[The_Midfielder]

Made this the most interesting Boxing day I can remember...

Remember blackpool game ?

 

[Jwills]

I really hate his game, he constantly put defenders and midfielders under pressure. That stupid pass to Mainoo is exactly the same pass where Casemiro got a red card. Erik needs to tell him to cut such stupid mental lapse. Pretty poor goalkeeper for 50 million pound. What a stupid buy!

We win a very good game with a stunning comeback and all some fans here can do is have a go at a player. He played well overall so will you guys just lay off Onana at least for today! Jeez!!!!

 

[Lash]

He's lost any sort of confidence coming for the ball. Good save for the Bailey shot and I'm starting to get over my PTSD of passing back to our keeper and feel like hell always control it properly.

Jury is still well and truly out.