[Kapardin]

Last season Jose's plan was Fellaini and Pogba in midfield. It was a disastrous combination. Herrera got thrown in there out of necessity in a position that didn't suit him at all and won player of the year. If anyone said Herrera would be a holding midfielder the summer before last they would have been ridiculed.

Only reason is because Fellaini cannot be a DM. He was fairly ok against lower teams, but was exposed against bigger teams. Mourinho figured that out pretty soon after the City loss.

Put Fellaini along with Pogba and Matic, and he will be another goal threat from midfield, while doing some defensive work as well. Herrera is not as big a goal threat as Fellaini.

Not going to comment on the Vidal and Xavi references.

 

[Jib]

I’m giving up, Herrera much more technical that Vidal? Come on. Xavi would shine in this team in his prime something Herrera fails to do. A doughnut could man to mark (Herrera did play well) so cannot judge that as a technical or intelligent player.
Herrera cannot pass the ball to any great degree he’s the Spanish version of Tom Cleverley nowhere near the calibre of Vidal.
You use to much conjecture trying to praise Herrera and from what it’s worth in my opinion Pogba played better than Herrera last season but expectation levels meant Herrera was deemed to have played better. I’m a season ticket holder and this is what my view is. Herrera is a squad level player at best.

I fully agree

 

[god_of_football]

Herrera is sometimes a waste of space in the team and I was a big fan of him. What does he do? He gets the ball and the first thing he is thinking of is to go backwards even when there is acres of space to move the ball forward (initially thought it was a LVG effect, but this sh*t has continue for too long, I missed when he was so dynamic and as a result didn't get into LVG team ). One reason our attack is zombie is due to his lack of passing range, because sometimes a driven pass (or even a lofted one) to the player on the wings could result in a quicker switch of play, but he choose to play a simple short pass to the CB's (I beleive because he can't play other type passes) for them to rather pass to the player on the wings which allows the other team to shift accordingly a block the space we created. The faster he improves his passing and decision making the better for our team.

 

[Bulldogg]

Indeed.

A Pogba-Matic-Fellaini trio is better balanced and has more teeth than the Pogba-Matic-Herrera combination. Pogba will be mostly offensive, Matic mostly defensive and Fellaini will help with both. Fellaini will also help with set pieces, get to the end of crosses, put some physicality, etc. (all the things that we see of him most of the time). Fellaini is also more "flexible": Mourinho can use him depending on the way the games develop. If we lead and need to protect it, he will drop back. If we need a goal late in the game, he can become basically a second striker. Herrera can't do that.

Good points.

 

[Bulldogg]

Matic was poor which is why personally i dont know why Herrera is being attacked. Matic wasn't a one man midfield he lost the ball multiple times in dangerous positions and his passing wasn't great. Herrera was buzzing everywhere still. Made more interceptions, tackles and passes than Matic.

I guess the majority of people don't see the game how you saw it, don't really no what else to say to you. I for one never attacked Herrera, i actually believe people should lay off him. The guy who originally posted had an issue with Herrera getting blasted, fair enough nothing wrong with that but within the same sentence wonders why Matic isn't getting blasted in his thread as if there's some kind of conspiracy occurring.

 

[Roboc7]

That’s a major statement. What calibre of players are you looking at as backup to Pogba and Matic?

It's not a major statement, just common sense. Neither Herrera or Fellaini are capable of playing well enough in a two and given that is our chosen formation they shouldn't be direct replacements.

There should be at least one other player who provides some form of genuine cover and competition.

As a whole the squad has too many 'do a job players' and not enough competition for places. Since Pogba got injured other than against dross our team has simply not functioned.

 

[arthurka]

I’m giving up, Herrera much more technical that Vidal? Come on. Xavi would shine in this team in his prime something Herrera fails to do. A doughnut could man to mark (Herrera did play well) so cannot judge that as a technical or intelligent player.
Herrera cannot pass the ball to any great degree he’s the Spanish version of Tom Cleverley nowhere near the calibre of Vidal.
You use to much conjecture trying to praise Herrera and from what it’s worth in my opinion Pogba played better than Herrera last season but expectation levels meant Herrera was deemed to have played better. I’m a season ticket holder and this is what my view is. Herrera is a squad level player at best.

You say what? Man marking world class players is one of the most difficult thing in football, it requires discipline and understanding of the game many players do not have. Managers rely on certain types to do it. SAF used Johnsen to man mark Zidane. He used Fletch and Park for this role as well.. These player possess two things above all, hard work and intelligence. Players who lay low do their job and get on with things are often used for this. Herrera kept Eriksen out of that match v Tottenham and didn´t give Hazard a sniff last year that in it self is something that can´t be ignored, if man marking was something a doughnut could do why are these players normally the best players in the pitch week in week out?

Two man midfield doesn´t suit Herrera at all most Spanish sides play with 3 in the middle and keep the ball moving and that suits Herrera very well. His long range passing isn´t good but I fail to think of many Spanish midfield players who possess that trait (Fabregas?) But his short passing and moving the ball is very good. Our midfield suffers from our play maker being non existent Mhikitaryan has been rubbish lately and offers no passing route for us forward and Mata is not explosive enough. Pogba when he plays is really good carrying the ball forward which makes the play maker role for Mhikitaryan more of a free role or wide role.

I fail to see what he did wrong v Spurs he did his job very well but reading this forum is a bit like reading Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde one day they are great the next they are rubbish, Fellaini, Pogba and Herrera have all gotten that treatment.

 

[Akshay]

Two man midfield doesn´t suit Herrera at all most Spanish sides play with 3 in the middle and keep the ball moving and that suits Herrera very well. His long range passing isn´t good but I fail to think of many Spanish midfield players who possess that trait (Fabregas?) But his short passing and moving the ball is very good. Our midfield suffers from our play maker being non existent Mhikitaryan has been rubbish lately and offers no passing route for us forward and Mata is not explosive enough. Pogba when he plays is really good carrying the ball forward which makes the play maker role for Mhikitaryan more of a free role or wide role.

Fellaini looked a better complement to the Pogba-Matic pairing this season, so I don't think it's an issue of midfield 2 or 3. Also in Pogba's absence there's been no one who can take the ball and carry it forward, so going the aerial route to Fellaini has become the next best option when we're under pressure. Plus Fellaini has proven more clinical in front of goal.

The problem for Herrera is that he's adapted his style to be the main defensive midfielder and now Matic has come in and taken that job. I feel for Herrera really because since he's come to United (and even before at Bilbao) he's had to change his role and style every season and he's become a bit of a mish mash player as a result.

The best way to use Ander might be to play a double pivot and give the attacking players more freedom and let them conserve their energy on defense. But that depends on him and Matic forging a good understanding which is currently missing and our attackers like Mkhi and Mata stepping up and delivering in the final third.

 

[prtk0811]

If We need to get the best out of Pogba herrera and matic as a trio Only a 3142 formation can get the maximum best out of all three players in the same lineup.

 

[POF]

I’m giving up, Herrera much more technical that Vidal? Come on. Xavi would shine in this team in his prime something Herrera fails to do. A doughnut could man to mark (Herrera did play well) so cannot judge that as a technical or intelligent player.
Herrera cannot pass the ball to any great degree he’s the Spanish version of Tom Cleverley nowhere near the calibre of Vidal.
You use to much conjecture trying to praise Herrera and from what it’s worth in my opinion Pogba played better than Herrera last season but expectation levels meant Herrera was deemed to have played better. I’m a season ticket holder and this is what my view is. Herrera is a squad level player at best.

You mention that I use conjecture to praise Herrera but you are choosing to simplify my points to refute them. I didn't say man-marking a player showed Herrera's intelligence. I said doing so from an unfamiliar and deeper position and still being able to produce the two key attacking contributions for United in the same game showed his intelligence. I cannot remember another player who has done that along with such a successful man marking display on the best player in the league.

I agree with you that Herrera being nominated player of the year had a lot to do with expectation level. He was picked in an unfamiliar position, a position where United had no other options and he was brilliant. Maybe not as good as someone who played that role their whole career but better than 95% of those who had played there are rarely as him. You stating how well Pogba played even adds to that. Herrera did so well in the deeper role that Pogba could have more attacking freedom.

The United midfield is currently all about athleticism. Xavi is one of my all time favourite players but he would be crap in this team. He wouldn't have the athleticism to cover the ground and without possession would struggle to influence the game offensively.

Herrera is an excellent short passer of the ball and his ability to spot the right pass is great. His execution of longer passes is a weakness and that is a bigger issue in a team that defends deep and counter attacks like United.

I am not saying I think Herrera should be first choice in the United side or that he should be ahead of Pogba and Matic. Saying he is more technical than Vidal doesn't mean I think he is better than Vidal. All I am saying is that he has some qualities that he cannot utilise in this United side and as a result I don't think he is suited to the style of play.

He probably is a squad player at best in this United side playing this style. But his contribution last season in an unfamiliar position, in a style that doesn't necessarily suit him showed great adaptability and footballing intelligence and it is a massive credit to him. A player and character like that is what league winning squads need. It's no surprise that Herrera was a target under Fergie because he has the character of a United player from the Fergie era.

 

[haram]

To be honest, I only really see him as a tool to press teams when Pogba and Fellaini are back.

 

[prtk0811]

To be honest, I only really see him as a tool to press teams when Pogba and Fellaini are back.

Yes , That's where he succeded last season. Expecting that level in mid 2 and a deep lying pivot is inanity. His long passing is not good enough for that and nither he has enough work rate to press so high and then come back to orignal position.

Only a 3142 system can get the proper balance with herrera involved.

 

[haram]

Yes , That's where he succeded last season. Expecting that level in mid 2 and a deep lying pivot is inanity. His long passing is not good enough for that and nither he has enough work rate to press so high and then come back to orignal position.

Only a 3142 system can get the proper balance with herrera involved.

I agree. I really dislike the Herrera - Matic midfield.

 

[prtk0811]

I agree. I really dislike the Herrera - Matic midfield.

We have no option though, Doing a okay job in tough circumstances.

 

[haram]

We have no option though, Doing a okay job in tough circumstances.

Yeah true, we are doing well all things considered.

 

[finneh]

I don't believe he suits a midfield two with Matic, but sometimes people look far too deep for the cause of a lack of form. He hasn't somehow regressed from a good midfielder to a mediocre one and hasn't just regressed from our player of the season to someone who's "a squad player at best".

Truthfully he's just been out of form which is probably down to either just naturally going through a rough patch or having a slow start due to starting only 1 of the first 6 games of the season so being behind his teammates in terms of match sharpness. His performances against Swansea and Spurs have been better so possibly he's starting to get back to his level.

It's bizarre how half a dozen good games from Fellaini this season suddenly has him viewed as superior, despite over 100 games for United previously showing the reverse is true.

 

[arthurka]

Fellaini looked a better complement to the Pogba-Matic pairing this season, so I don't think it's an issue of midfield 2 or 3. Also in Pogba's absence there's been no one who can take the ball and carry it forward, so going the aerial route to Fellaini has become the next best option when we're under pressure. Plus Fellaini has proven more clinical in front of goal.

The problem for Herrera is that he's adapted his style to be the main defensive midfielder and now Matic has come in and taken that job. I feel for Herrera really because since he's come to United (and even before at Bilbao) he's had to change his role and style every season and he's become a bit of a mish mash player as a result.

The best way to use Ander might be to play a double pivot and give the attacking players more freedom and let them conserve their energy on defense. But that depends on him and Matic forging a good understanding which is currently missing and our attackers like Mkhi and Mata stepping up and delivering in the final third.

I totally agree with this.. I wasn´t comparing him to Fellaini at all I think he offers more in a midfield three but the way we are set up this season under Jose he really struggles. He and Matic have no understanding at all and sometimes look to be playing the same role or position.

What Fellaini offers is a long ball route out from defense which Herrera doesn´t, Herrera on the other hand offers quicker movement of the ball and better recovering of the ball. I for one can´t understand the Herrera hate all of the sudden, he hasn´t been up to his best but no way is he our main problem. Loosing Pogba fecked up a system that worked at the start of the season and the changes Jose made to accommodate that have not been pleasing on the eye. Playing Fellaini for Pogba offered a similar way out of defense and a real threat offensively. Lukaku, Mhikitaryan and more have suffered because of this, we have been going through a spell of 4-6 of our starting 11 missing and have had to adapt because of that.

 

[#07]

I totally agree with this.. I wasn´t comparing him to Fellaini at all I think he offers more in a midfield three but the way we are set up this season under Jose he really struggles. He and Matic have no understanding at all and sometimes look to be playing the same role or position.

What Fellaini offers is a long ball route out from defense which Herrera doesn´t, Herrera on the other hand offers quicker movement of the ball and better recovering of the ball. I for one can´t understand the Herrera hate all of the sudden, he hasn´t been up to his best but no way is he our main problem. Loosing Pogba fecked up a system that worked at the start of the season and the changes Jose made to accommodate that have not been pleasing on the eye. Playing Fellaini for Pogba offered a similar way out of defense and a real threat offensively. Lukaku, Mhikitaryan and more have suffered because of this, we have been going through a spell of 4-6 of our starting 11 missing and have had to adapt because of that.

The Herrera hate is baffling. As illustrated by Statman Dave here:

 

[Bwuk]

The Herrera hate is baffling. As illustrated by Statman Dave here:

Statman Dave is a clown.

 

[prtk0811]

The best way to use Ander might be to play a double pivot and give the attacking players more freedom and let them conserve their energy on defense.

The best way to play him is like we used him last season, with Carrick sitting behind and pogba paired alongside him. It was a4141 last season where Herreras high press won the ball for us proactively but that adds defensive duties on wingers so to find a perfect balance a 3142 makes most sense against a 3 man defense which majority of clubs play in England right now specially all the big clubs excluding Liverpool.

 

[#07]

Statman Dave is a clown.

And what kind of thing makes you say that?

 

[Bwuk]

And what kind of thing makes you say that?

He talks absolute nonsense, but one thing that always springs to mind is he was on a FullTimeDevils episode where they were all pulling together their all time Man Utd starting 11, and Statman Dave picked Darren Fletcher.

 

[#07]

He talks absolute nonsense, but one thing that always springs to mind is he was on a FullTimeDevils episode where they were all pulling together their all time Man Utd starting 11, and Statman Dave picked Darren Fletcher.

I like that Dave builds his views based on stats. I recognise that stats don't tell you everything but they tend to be a good measure of contribution.

At the moment Herrera has made more tackles than any other United player. He is also making a good number of key passes. Numbers can embellish performances, they can flatter to deceive, and maybe had Lingard tucked in Herrera's hoofed clearance and he'd got an assist that would have made his contribution seem greater than it was.

I do not think that a player can or should be punished for executing a tactical plan though. The stats will tell you that Herrera's use of the ball last weekend was not consistent but it was not without some plus points.

People are being needlessly hard on him. At the end of the day we played against a team that had a back five, flooded midfield by starting with no striker, and we still shut down their main threats and won the match. That does not happen if either of our two centre midfielders has an absolute shocker, which some are convinced Ander did.

PS) Fletch is a legend and I'm sure we all hoped he'd regain his 2008-2010 form after the illness. Can't see why its that controversial to look with rose tinted glasses about what he might've given us.

 

[Lawman]

You say what? Man marking world class players is one of the most difficult thing in football, it requires discipline and understanding of the game many players do not have. Managers rely on certain types to do it. SAF used Johnsen to man mark Zidane. He used Fletch and Park for this role as well.. These player possess two things above all, hard work and intelligence. Players who lay low do their job and get on with things are often used for this. Herrera kept Eriksen out of that match v Tottenham and didn´t give Hazard a sniff last year that in it self is something that can´t be ignored, if man marking was something a doughnut could do why are these players normally the best players in the pitch week in week out?

Two man midfield doesn´t suit Herrera at all most Spanish sides play with 3 in the middle and keep the ball moving and that suits Herrera very well. His long range passing isn´t good but I fail to think of many Spanish midfield players who possess that trait (Fabregas?) But his short passing and moving the ball is very good. Our midfield suffers from our play maker being non existent Mhikitaryan has been rubbish lately and offers no passing route for us forward and Mata is not explosive enough. Pogba when he plays is really good carrying the ball forward which makes the play maker role for Mhikitaryan more of a free role or wide role.

I fail to see what he did wrong v Spurs he did his job very well but reading this forum is a bit like reading Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde one day they are great the next they are rubbish, Fellaini, Pogba and Herrera have all gotten that treatment.

In my experience it doesn’t mean your any more intelligent because you man mark someone. I remember many average players man marking top players out a game.

 

[#07]

Herrera helped calm us down a lot when he came on tonight. With Benfica playing 4-3-3 it was relatively easy for them to outnumber our midfield 2 until Ander's introduction. Also, once he did come on he was more than just another body. Used the ball very well and looked more 'on it' in an attacking sense than he has been since CSKA (A).

 

[el3mel]

Well done today. His introduction returned the control of midfield to us and killed the game.

 

[Sylar]

Agreed, needed that extra man in midfield when he came on.
Expecting him to do a job on Hazard this weekend. Im guessing Jose didnt want to use him at all today to keep him completely fresh. However a runout that he got through, might not be the worst thing.

 

[KM]

His best performance of the season so far. Looked like the Herrera of last season and played really well.

 

[Sammyjunn]

He was very good imo, quick decisive passing and defensively adequate. If matic and Herrere play well sunday we might have a decent chance. Especially if Kante is still injured.

 

[simonhch]

Captain Average to the rescue.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Mourinho is clever. He rested Herrera because he knows that he will have a big job to do on Sunday man marking Eden Hazard.

Regarding his form, I just remember that last year he was also not very good at the beginning of the season but grew little by little with game time.

I think he may be good in the horrible 3-5-2 Mourinho fields these days with Matic and Pogba instead of Mkhi, linking better midfield and attack

But anyway, he will be one of the main weapon this Sunday at the bridge and a big answer is due from him

 

[Fahad Jawaid]

Its funny and kind of ironic, Firstly i think he has played well this season not amazing but well and in some matches and brilliant in others. I believe he gets unfair criticism all the time. He plays and gets criticized for passing sideways and backwards when he helps us control the match, i don't think we were this bad this season in any match with Herrera playing (in fact we were better Benfica away in which he started they hardly created anything). Now when he does not play and Benfica dominate us and is unlucky not to score until his introduction (after that which we were the better side and controlled the game to finishing line). Just maybe just maybe our lack of attacking threat and poor style of play is due to not having a Right winger or our inconsistent but brilliant Rashford/Martial or our no10's shitting themselves and not keeping hold of the ball and loosing it every second or Lukaku who can't trap a bag of sand at the moment? How any any fluid and attacking play be constructed among these players? and When people run out of people to criticize and pin blame on them Herrera gets in the firing line.

I believe with Pogba and Zlatan coming back we will become a better side to watch, since they have the ability to actually control a pass and play quick one touch football and receive a pass under pressure without shitting themselves. Then when the attacking play will be sorted out, people will appreciate the defensive stability and control to the match he brings, and for those who are awaiting Fellani's return trust me you will be disappointed, he is a good player for a particular system but keep the same lineup and change Fellani with Herrera and we will actually become worse to watch, although we might score on one or two crosses.

 

[Lawman]

Its funny and kind of ironic, Firstly i think he has played well this season not amazing but well and in some matches and brilliant in others. I believe he gets unfair criticism all the time. He plays and gets criticized for passing sideways and backwards when he helps us control the match, i don't think we were this bad this season in any match with Herrera playing (in fact we were better Benfica away in which he started they hardly created anything). Now when he does not play and Benfica dominate us and is unlucky not to score until his introduction (after that which we were the better side and controlled the game to finishing line). Just maybe just maybe our lack of attacking threat and poor style of play is due to not having a Right winger or our inconsistent but brilliant Rashford/Martial or our no10's shitting themselves and not keeping hold of the ball and loosing it every second or Lukaku who can't trap a bag of sand at the moment? How any any fluid and attacking play be constructed among these players? and When people run out of people to criticize and pin blame on them Herrera gets in the firing line.

I believe with Pogba and Zlatan coming back we will become a better side to watch, since they have the ability to actually control a pass and play quick one touch football and receive a pass under pressure without shitting themselves. Then when the attacking play will be sorted out, people will appreciate the defensive stability and control to the match he brings, and for those who are awaiting Fellani's return trust me you will be disappointed, he is a good player for a particular system but keep the same lineup and change Fellani with Herrera and we will actually become worse to watch, although we might score on one or two crosses.

Herrera has been poor this season and people are rightly criticising him for playing to safe. He needs to up his game and this has been highlighted by the fact Matic has come in and looks twice the player of Herrera. Hopefully he comes back into form quickly but signs are (over Herreras time here) he’s a limited player who is no more than a squad player ala Nicky Butt. Great squad player if we can actually achieve this by getting another top midfielder to compliment Matic and Pogba.

 

[Infordin]

Saying he is more technical than Vidal doesn't mean I think he is better than Vidal.

I really don't understand where you're coming from. Vidal is technically excellent. He has a very good passing range and scores plenty of goals. He was both the destroyer and the playmaker of a Chile side that won back-to-back Copa Americas.

Herrera doesn't touch Vidal anywhere. Vidal has a better first touch, a better passing range, a better shot, and is just overall a superior technical player to Herrera.

Vidal would be a colossal upgrade on either Herrera or Fellaini in this United side.

 

[roonster09]

I really don't understand where you're coming from. Vidal is technically excellent. He has a very good passing range and scores plenty of goals. He was both the destroyer and the playmaker of a Chile side that won back-to-back Copa Americas.

Herrera doesn't touch Vidal anywhere. Vidal has a better first touch, a better passing range, a better shot, and is just overall a superior technical player to Herrera.

Vidal would be a colossal upgrade on either Herrera or Fellaini in this United side.

Don't think this Vidal is that good, he is on decline and has lot of off field issues. Vidal who played for Juventus would have been awesome.

 

[Infordin]

Don't think this Vidal is that good, he is on decline and has lot of off field issues. Vidal who played for Juventus would have been awesome.

Yeah I agree that Vidal has been declining since the 2016 Copa America final. He's been having reoccurring knee injury problems lately.

But even a drunk, past his prime version of Vidal is still better than Herrera.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah I agree that Vidal has been declining since the 2016 Copa America final. He's been having reoccurring knee injury problems lately.

But even a drunk, past his prime version of Vidal is still better than Herrera.

Depends on how quickly he will decline. Watched their cup game against RBL, he looked liability.

 

[Jib]

Herrera did so well in the deeper role that Pogba could have more attacking freedom

That's not true. José wanted Matic because Herrera can't play as CDM, he isn't disciplined enough.

With Matic, Pogba don't need to sacrifice his game by sitting too deep like last season...

 

[POF]

I really don't understand where you're coming from. Vidal is technically excellent. He has a very good passing range and scores plenty of goals. He was both the destroyer and the playmaker of a Chile side that won back-to-back Copa Americas.

Herrera doesn't touch Vidal anywhere. Vidal has a better first touch, a better passing range, a better shot, and is just overall a superior technical player to Herrera.

Vidal would be a colossal upgrade on either Herrera or Fellaini in this United side.

Comments like "Herrera doesn't touch Vidal anywhere" are just hyperbolic nonsense. You may as well just have said "Vidal is a superior human being". Each player has their strengths and weaknesses. Andy Carroll shits on Messi in the air.

Vidal is a very good player but Herrera has more of a technical style. Agree or disagree as you see fit but comments like "player X is better in every way" says more about the commenter's ability to analyse a player than the ability of the player.

That's not true. José wanted Matic because Herrera can't play as CDM, he isn't disciplined enough.

With Matic, Pogba don't need to sacrifice his game by sitting too deep like last season...

Herrera can't play as CDM? He played there all of last season and won player of the year.

It's all relative. Matic being better or more experienced in the role doesn't take away from the fact that Herrera played it very well last season and far better than any other options in last season's squad.

 

[don't sign old players]

I actually wanted him as the DM this season, I believe it's his best position. I certainly wouldn't buy another one now with him and Matic already there.