He's tactically a very intelligent player which means people who aren't tactically intelligent won't notice what he does.
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He's tactically a very intelligent player which means people who aren't tactically intelligent won't notice what he does.
With Chelsea playing with a 9 man defensive wall Matic was an extra man and didn't have to be a defensive midfielder. I feel we could have brought on a more attacking player and taken off one of the midfielders or defenders earlier.
He’s never really offered anything other than sideways passing. One of the worst 30m signings in history I reckon. He’s shite and I really hope he knows it.
There's no creativity or goals between Matic and Herrera. We need a midfielder who is a cross between Matic and Pogba. A player who is disciplined and can also add some creativity and a few goals to the team. I don't think Herrera suits the present system.
You mean other than the most tackles and interceptions in the team? The best positioning when tracking back of our midfielders? And some of the best crosses in the team?
Offensively maybe.
But defensively he plugs a lot of the holes that Matic and Pogba leave behind and is also more mobile than Matic so can get back into position faster than Matic when we're counter attacked. Meanwhile Matic and Pogba provide the physical strength that Ander doesnt have.
Yeah. Wasn’t be bought as an offensive midfielder? Another player we’ve bought that we’ve had to mould into another position as they aren’t up to standard.
Watch the game. He’s fecking rubbish. Genuinely shite.
I disagree with this. I hate it when Jose makes changes like Mata for Jones. The team completely loses balance and you just have a player like Mata trying to win the ball back deep in his own half. They couldn't get the ball back in the end because of it.
I agree that there isn't enough creativity in the trio of Matic, Herrera and Pogba when trying to break teams down but taking Herrera off yesterday would have been a suicidal move. Hazard would have killed them on the counter if he was up against Matic rather than Herrera.
He was being played in the hole at Bilbao behind the striker. He didnt score many and didnt set up that many. What he did do is a defensive shift. He made tackles and interceptions, but got booked often
Watch the game
He did his job well yesterday, as he usually does. My issue is the job Mourinho is asking him to do. So many times he was dropping level with the defenders to pick the ball up and take it forward. I know our defenders arent great on the ball but surely they can be trusted to pass it more than 6 feet. It meant the whole team was either dropping back or there were massive gaps between midfield and attack.
@POF sorry but what a lot of tosh sorry but come on. He grew into the game yesterday and he can play a great slide ball now and again but his passing is erratic at best. His choice of passing is poor he’s best at playing when pressing and releasing it early (not thinking too much about it). Positionally as a defensive midfielder he’s not great but as proven give him a task like man marking Hazard and the kid does it well. But don’t spout bollocks he’s an intelligent player ffs makes you look pompous and daft. Trust me there are a few more tactically aware posters on here than you. So I wouldn’t be too quick to play that card. Have you ever watched Herrera try and build the play from taking the ball of defenders? He really struggles with this part of the game where intelligence is needed think Pirlo or Scholes as intelligent players spreading play and taking up positions to effect the other teams play that’s definitely not Herrera.
Spot on and this position suits him to a tee when highlighting his defensive skills. He’d be brilliant for Liverpool as suits his play and front foot high energy pressing. But asking him to build play from our defenders then he is exposed.
He's clearly an intelligent positional player. Thats why he's good at dropping back and helping to clear the ball as well as intercepting passes
Veratti?
Not from what games I’ve saw him play live (most home games up until this season). Interception he’s built for that and is great at it. But he plays of the cuff both in his passing and play. He’s the opposite of an intelligent player. Decent player but could be very effective in the right system Bilboa or Liverpool where the pressing intensity is high. But intelligent player he is not.
I think you see the term as something only for players good on the ball and with their use of it. Ander is intelligent without the ball in terms of getting himself in a good position to defend.
Smalling is another intelligent defensive player with his positioning. But not so much with the ball.
I would say he's unattainable.
Plays comfortably the best pass in the game (again)
Caf: only plays it sideways.
Caf: only plays it sideways.
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Nope Neil Lennon had a limited skill set on the ball but was a very intelligent player. Nothing to do with that but I know what you are saying in terms of skillfull players being considered intelligent but they are not always. On another note I don’t think Smalling is intelligent either he’s more pace and muscle than a thinker. Smalling often relies on pace and muscle to get him out of situations and that’s fine. But intelligent defenders very rarely get caught out as much as Smalling does. Ps I think Smalling is a good player all the same.
All I am saying is that he is a tactically intelligent player. That has nothing to do with his ability on the ball or his creativity.
He is one of the few (probably only) United players that can play these hybrid roles where after the game there is confusion over what formation the team was playing. He was the right sided midfield player in a midfield 3 and still managed to do a pseudo man marking job on an opposition player playing just off the striker.
It wasn't a man marking job, he didn't follow Hazard everywhere but unless Hazard went wide right, he was still there to snuff him out for the majority of the game.
There is all of this talk of "Player X can't play in a back 3", "Pogba can't play in a midfield 2". If more players were as tactically intelligent as Herrera it would give the coach far more options.
I am not saying he is like Scholes or Pirlo and I am also not trying to come across as some know all tactical master mind. Some people are interested in tactics when watching football. Others aren't. Neither is right or wrong.
But anyone who criticises his attacking or creative output in that game doesn't understand the role he was playing.
It made sense to start him yesterday, he's one of our better performers in big games and did well early on to force Hazard to switch to the other side. Problem is Mourinho played a wingback system of his own so he was playing as RCB, Hazard realized this and targeted Jones who was on the other side and that's exactly where the goal came from.
Herrera was extremely poor for majority of the season but he's really come into his own in last few months and I hope we keep him, one of the very very few players in our squad who get what playing for the shirt means.
Isn't it Pogba's role to provide creativity when we're playing with Herrera and Matic? We can definitely benefit with a secondary playmaker alongside Matic and Pogba in big matches but I don't think it'll suddenly make us potent in attack. There are deeper problems in our side compared to midfield.
Herrera was extremely poor for majority of the season but he's really come into his own in last few months and I hope we keep him, one of the very very few players in our squad who get what playing for the shirt means.
Isn't it Pogba's role to provide creativity when we're playing with Herrera and Matic? We can definitely benefit with a secondary playmaker alongside Matic and Pogba in big matches but I don't think it'll suddenly make us potent in attack. There are deeper problems in our side compared to midfield.
To me he is massively over rated. He passes the ball sideways and backwards far too much for a midfielder.
Fair enough I probably got carried away with post as thought you were saying posters on here can’t see tactics etc. I hate all that nonsense everyone opinion counts even when people don’t agree. So sorry for that Pof as I usually agree with most of your postings.
But I still disagree with you here, Herrera is anything but an intelligent player. Not saying he’s not what he is. Yesterday he was frustrating at times and excellent at other times. But the hybrid role I’m not sure he is that versatile. He can do a man to man marking role but when I played so could most players other than forwards who could tend to switch off. Herrera yesterday wasn’t total man to marking I agree. But him getting the ball of defenders and trying to build play is on par with Henderson at Liverpool who also is average at this part. Positionally Herrera tends to slot in rather than take up great positions. Like a Carrick or a Neil Lennon type. Rooney was another who took up great positions. These guys are intelligent players, I’ve watch Herrera in midfield being caught out a million times positionally but his mobility gets him away with it certainly not his game intelligence in my book. By the way this doesn’t always happen for regular players even some of the real top players have lacked so called game intelligence so it’s not a complete show stopper.
We bow to your higher knowledge, exalted sir. We're just mostly amateur football enthusiasts on the forum.
No no, just that an intelligent player is seen as someone who uses the ball well. Thats where I thought you were coming from. And disregarding reading the game and positioning yourself accordingly to be defend it not being considered intelligent.
Smalling doesnt get caught out often at all. He positions himself extremely well and intercepts to stop many attacks in their tracks. VVD (Southampton stats) and Monreal are the only 2 CBs to play at least 10 games this season who intercept more than Smalling. Smalling is joint with Tomkins and Bailly, who's problem is not positioning but being rash / over aggressive at times and winning the ball in the air.
Some people just don't have an intelligence to analyse football I'd say
Go watch Snooker or something less intense where you have time to use your brain and come up with something worth posting. Players have specific roles and he was manmarking hazard so he didn't have much time to create, when we got on the ball more, he was better in the second half moving the ball quickly, playing the best pass of the game, not by Pogba, not by Sanchez, not by Matic, but by Herrera, while palying as the most defensive midfielder for us yesterday. It is very important to know simple tactical things like that not every player has to spend hours on the ball and try to create something, his job is quick passing because Matic and Pogba, Sanchez, already slow the game extremely down. It obviously doesn't come to fruition when even he speeds the game up a bit, there will be players who will just struggle to control the ball or don't do the same so the game slows down, it is essential to do this if you wanna open the defence which is defending comfortably in 10 playersHe’s the only one of our midfielders who tries to play the ball quickly, one or two touch. Sadly he’s often hampered by our negative tactics and instructions.
Smalling often gets caught out on the wrong side and often gets too tight. I’m not going to dispute he makes interceptions but there is more to positioning than interceptions. Bailley is dreadful at defending the front post, watch his body shape (shoulders) when teams cross from byeline. Look at his OG (Liverpool or was it Arsenal) this highlights it well.
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