I watched his highlights of the game and you are 100% correct. Infact it's been apparent for a while. He doesn't want to pass the ball forwards or more than 10 yards. Even when there's is time and space to take a touch, turn and make a forward pass he goes sideways or back to Smalling and Jones/Lindellof/Bailly whoevers in defence. He gets the ball with nobody around him and then chooses to pass it back to where it came from. It really irks me because it slows everything down unnecessarily. He has become such a pussy in possession which is strange because he is capable of making some really good creative passes. Remember his pass for Mata in the 1-2 game at Anfield or the pass for Rashford in last year's 2-0 win over Chelsea. The top players in his position make those passes nearly every game. You're totally correct. We need someone more creative and more of a goal threat than Herrera if we are to persist with this 4-3-3. He should be looking to get in the box more often as well but no he wants to keep everything safe. In the 4-3-3 we need more goal threat from the two box to box midfielders to make up for the extra attacker that is sacrificed. Pogba has started to get more involved now in terms of goals and assists but we need the same from the other number 8 which is Herrera. If he can't do that then he shouldn't be playing. I don't care if he makes a couple of tackles. That's the job of Matic. Herrera has to do more full stop. He is playing in the same position as KDB for comparison. That tells you everything.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 2
- Yellow cards
- 5
- Status
I think this goes with Matic and any of our midfielders
I feel everyone that remembers Herrera in top form vs Herrera in recent form will understand why he is playing like this. He has not been anywhere near first team this season. He’s a smart man, he knows if he plays it simple he regains his managers trust (ie mctominay) and work his way back in. On top of that, he’s shined in big games in recent games because his main tasks was to control the midfield defensively. Once he establishes himself in the first team again, you’ll see him let loose.
He’s a smart man and I don’t blame him for how he’s been playing.
100% agree.
Pogba had Vidal with him in a midfield three at Juventus, who was just as, if not more, attacking then Pogba.
That said, the last few games, although very safe with the ball, Herrera has found himself high up the pitch on a few occasions, having scored against Spurs and assisted against Man City.
Going forward, we definately need a player who is going to make forward runs. Someone for the opposition midfielders to worry about instead of just Pogba.
I guess it might be why we've been linked to Savic. Whilst not someone to control a game - which is also what we need, Savic is an attacking threat.
A midfield of Pogba Matic Savic against teams who park the bus, would be ideal. With Pogba at 6"3 and Savic 6"4 it also gives us that option to go long if/when needed.
Exactly. One of the reasons Pogba was so good at Juve was Vidal's box to box work and his goal threat which gave opposition teams another threat to deal with. In his 4 years at Juve he scored 50 goals in all comps. On average that's around 12 goals per season. That's the level of productivity we need from our number 8's. I haven't seen Savic but if he fits this 'Vidal' profile then we should snap him up. Ideally we would want someone who can score goals but also control games too. Thiago would be the dream but that's very unlikely.
Do you think it's now fair to say the writing was on the wall at the beginning of the season?
Yeah.
Tbf he also played in many big games but not a regular player like he was last season.
Vs Madrid in super cup
Vs City: Started both home and away game
Vs Liverpool: Started away game and was injured for home game.
Vs Spurs: Started home game, came on as a sub in away game and started in Cup semi finals
Vs Arsenal: Came off the bench in away game, started home game
Vs Chelsea: Started away game and injured for home game.
So he was important player against all the big teams in the league. He also started round of 16 game vs Sevilla and got injured.
But yeah he was squad player this season and very important player for big games.
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He will always play the big games because tactically, he's very good.
In the smaller games; however, we need more going forward, in my opinion.
What happened with him and Jose? , so weird that he had such a decent season last year but then was frozen out for the majority of this one.
Herrera Matic Pogba is a very decent 3 in mid but we have barely utilised it. He was a key player last season and against Spurs in the semi he showed the same form, very strange. How can Mourinho not pick him more often?
Herrera Matic Pogba is a very decent 3 in mid but we have barely utilised it. He was a key player last season and against Spurs in the semi he showed the same form, very strange. How can Mourinho not pick him more often?
Cause we dont need both him and Matic on the pitch against about 15 of 20 teams.
Unfortunately we do if we want to cover up a lot of mistakes from the fullbacks and match the effort of those teams. Else De Gea and Smalling will end up our players of the match or we drop points
Matic did well on the ball this season. Your comment suggests he just defends, but he actually gets on the ball a lot and plays passes to our dangerous players. He's not a great creative player but he important to our team on the ball and has been more impressive with it, than winning it this season
I think Mourinho basically answered that for us at the beginning of this season:
It's clear from his past that Herrera in the position he played last season was not his ideal kind of midfielder. The fact he jumped at the chance to get Magic confirms that emphatically.
In the end he's been used much like Tiago in his first stint at Chelsea. Not quite good enough to be a regular B2B midfielder - he wants an Essien - and not the right type for the holding role.
Unfortunately it seems that he struggles to mesh well with Matic, and Matic is both a demonstrably better player and Mourinho's type. I think Herrera probably needs someone a bit less all action in the holding role to really excel.
His best performances this season was playing next to Matic and Pogba. Pogba is key for any midfield combination, Matic and Herrera offers almost same things at slightly different levels and none of them are good enough to offer what Pogba can.
Herrera - Pogba - Matic midfield played against Spurs in the cup, City away and that was his best performance this season. It was playing next to Matic and Pogba.
Playing just Matic and Herrera in the midfield is a bad combination as proved early in the season when Pogba was injured.
I think that's only half true. We all knew Herrera would be used in the big games because Mourinho likes a combative midfield three and a destructive mindset in the big games. Our approach is very different in the other games and generally Herrera hasn't been very good in them, for whatever reason. I'd guess that reason is too much overlap with Matic.
They occupy different sides on the pitch when we attack. Matic usually occupies left and Herrera occupies right side. Against teams that only defends we don't need both as they don't offer much in the attack.
In smaller games, playing Matic or Herrera doesn't make big difference. Both are limited in the attack and good defensively.
Herrera wasn't good when Pogba was injured and we had no midfield to carry the ball. At least Fellaini offered different strength as he was used as target man and nuisance in the box, Herrera and Matic can't offer that. As a midfield 2, Matic and Herrera was a big fail and this happened when Pogba was injured.
With Pogba, Herrera's performance is better as expectations on him are different. He offers legs and defensive strength to cover Pogba which compliments Pogba.
I agree but I find that odd. Herrera has played as a #10 for both clubs and his national team and been reasonably good at it. He gets involved with clever interplay, has a sharp eye for incisive through balls, finds space quite well and moves the ball quickly. Last season was the first team he was used in a primarily defensive role for a sustained period of time. His attacking play for the majority of his career has been more potent than his defensive game. He's just lacked confidence and struggled to find the right balance this year.
He lacked confidence in passing the ball since Van Gaal time. First season he tried lot of through balls, now he tries very rarely. Usually finds the target when he does. He has that in his locker but lacks confidence to play it regularly.
With Matic and Herrera we have 2 players who are good at short passes but lacks passing range to release players. That's one of the problems.
West Ham 0:0 Man Utd
Maybe someone can swoop in with some stats or something but I really barely noticed him tonight, it was a very quiet performance from Ander.
Most passes (115) by a huge margin, Pogba (80) 2nd. Most completed passes (104) again by a huge margin, Pogba (70) was 2nd highest on the pitch, Noble (61) third.
2 successful tackles out of 6 attempts, 2 interceptions.
1 shot from long distance that got blocked.
I like Herrera but today I found his performance a bit annoying, though not to the extent of Pogba or Sanchez. Ander kept playing short return passes when he could have taken the ball forwards, or looked to play the ball forwards. I guess he did his main job reasonably well, given they created very little but our play could have been a lot more fluid.
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Thanks for the stats, I'm really surprised at how many passes he made, I guess a lot of them being so short and safe that I didn't pick up on how much of the ball he saw. I think when he's put in that holding role he's a pure DM, he's not going to offer much on the ball or play it through the lines.
Thought he was pretty bad in the first half. Second half was better but it doesn't mean much in such a boring game.
Did a great job defending, bailing out the defence on 2 occasions from inside our own box. Played lots of passes. Very good DM performance but didnt create a lot from the position, not really the job.
Ole Ole Ander Herrera
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...errera-fa-cup-final-manchester-united-chelsea
Wants to extend/stay. If fecking money-grabbing Fellaini gets a new contract and Herrera doesn't I won't be best pleased.
Wants to extend/stay. If fecking money-grabbing Fellaini gets a new contract and Herrera doesn't I won't be best pleased.
Chelsea 1:0 Man Utd
What happened to the exciting Spanish midfielder we signed? Boring, uninspiring, and unadventurous now. We can and should be looking for better.
Had a better 2nd half, as did Matic. Mostly restricted Hazard a bit in central areas while he was marking him, but it wasnt on him to be at CB when Hazard is making a run behind the defence. 2 key passes, with the most touches and passes in our team by quite a ways. And 3 interceptions and 1 tackle whilst half man marking Hazard and half tracking players all the way back into our box. I think thats the part not enough people appreciate - he dropped back to be an extra defender at CB more often than Matic.
He's a terrible player.
RB in some periods, weird
He was actually our 3rd CB in the first half.
He's not the reason we lost today. He played the pass of the match as well.
Yep exactly. When Hazard was central around midfield he would man mark him. When Hazard tried to pull him the full width of the field to get him out of position, Ander would pass him onto our fullbacks and Ander would come into the backline as an extra defender, tracking all the way into his own box. This took that responsibility off of Matic
Can't imagine it's easy man marking a player then produce on the ball. It must restrict you, somewhat, especially as he was asked to play so deep.
That said, he is normally pretty safe on the ball, whether he's man marking or not.
That said, he is normally pretty safe on the ball, whether he's man marking or not.
Oncfe his remit changed from stalking Hazard to being a more forward thinking CM he looked less comfortable and I thought he'd come off for Mata.
Was a proper Tom Cleverley performance from him today. He's had a shocker of a season really, can't see it getting any better either.
He is useless. Just runs around like a headless chicken and spends the game fouling people. A box to box midfielder that doesn't have any interest in moving forward. What is that?.Can't dribble, no range of passing, can't even shoot properly. At least under LVG he used to compose himself before shooting. Get rid in the summer along with Fellaini and bring in two maybe even three top quality midfielders.
I think people should read this comment and really think about the role he had today. He had a specific role and did his best to be effective for the team, if everyone did as much as he did, we would win 3:0. That defence splitting pass was just
Xavi would be proud of. But people are just looking for a scapegoat of course. least of our problems in this game, even though he didn't have a good first half but it didn't 9/11 of our players...you are simply an idiot, if you can't realise what his role in the game was and how the team set up then I don't know, maybe just watch more football and look at some analysis. He didn't have the best game but in a restricted role he was one of our better players, poor in the first half like everyone else and decent in the second. We didn't lose because of him..
I can't believe the comments. I thought he had an outstanding game. He completely neutralised Hazard (he passed him on when he drifted right) and in the second half when United were well on top, it was largely due to him recovering the ball to set up wave after wave of attack.
Against that system, he didn't have an offensive role. His role was a deeper one which basically allowed United's full backs to push right on to Chelsea's wing backs. He was a pseudo third centre back at times and tellingly, seemed far more solid defensively than the actual centre back in Jones.
Against that system, he didn't have an offensive role. His role was a deeper one which basically allowed United's full backs to push right on to Chelsea's wing backs. He was a pseudo third centre back at times and tellingly, seemed far more solid defensively than the actual centre back in Jones.
I dont think people actually took the time to watch his and Matic's positions today.
He was the Defensive Midfielder today. He man marked Hazard until he would speed off wide on the touchline, then Ander would pass him on to the fullback and sit protecting the back line all the way back into his own box.
He made 1 tackle and 3 interceptions with 1 clearance and 1 blocked shot.
Matic made 0 tackles and 0 interceptions with 1 clearance and 1 blocked shot. What Matic did do is a couple of dribbles forward. He wasnt playing in DM today.
He was the Defensive Midfielder today. He man marked Hazard until he would speed off wide on the touchline, then Ander would pass him on to the fullback and sit protecting the back line all the way back into his own box.
He made 1 tackle and 3 interceptions with 1 clearance and 1 blocked shot.
Matic made 0 tackles and 0 interceptions with 1 clearance and 1 blocked shot. What Matic did do is a couple of dribbles forward. He wasnt playing in DM today.
He is a decent b2b midfielder for me, nothing more. Ive no problems with him staying especially with fellaini looking set to leave. Slightly overrated by the caf at times though.
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