2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

D. Grayson said:
How did Kamala drop 2 points worse than Joe Biden in 2020 among female voters?
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I think women in general are more distrusting, skeptical and harder on other women than they are on men.

I actually don't believe a woman democrat candidate can win an election for a long time.

It's more likely a women candidate wins the republicans an election if one ever makes it on the ballot, before one does for the democrats. It's too much of an uphill battle coming from the democrats side.
 
Raoul said:
The Democratic party is going to need a major autopsy after last night.
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It really is, and they are going to have a very big problem squaring moving right (which they will need to do in some areas), with their activist base (who already think the party is too right wing). I don't know how they are going to internalise this result, it's got to be profoundly shocking. Easier to reject it.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
So I just read that Rashida Tlaib got 77% of the vote to be reelected in michegan, while harris lost.

If you want to examine why trump won, its right there. Policy and principles matter, not soundbytes or taylor fecking swift.
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Democrats would rather woo the centrists and independents than try to get their base energised.

Republicans don’t give two shits about reaching out to the other side, thats why they win.
 
Trying to look at the positive side of (yeah right!) things: there should be a decent chance of a significantly better Dem candidate in 2028. Obviously too soon, but I'm guessing that Newsom might be licking his lips right now? @Raoul

If Harris had won and thus become the candidate by default in 2028 then Newsom, and his likes, would have been blocked until 2032 - which might have been too late for Gavin at least.
 
https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/politics/2020-2016-exit-polls-2024-dg/

For those who would seek to blame minorities , honestly piss off with that shit.

This is on white men and women in America and seemingly Latino men as well.

These charts really do bare just how badly Harris did here. She has done so much worse in almost every single demographic compared to both Clinton and Biden. A pretty incredible performance.
 
nickm said:
And spending in other areas will have to be cut. Post the Cold War, UK defence spending was 5% ish of GDP, so in order to fund the UK military to those levels, we'd have to find another £40-50 billion or so per yet. That's a shocker, but we have serious choices make.
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Defence spending is a great way to grow an economy providing you spend it domestically. We still have a great base with the likes of BAE, Rolls Royce and Qinetiq but we have hollowed out a great deal of our capabilities since the end of the Cold War.
 
Raoul said:
Voted for the guy who will help a now emboldened Netanyahu completely annex the West Bank.

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Already at the blaming Arabs stage? Harris also fumbled the bag in pretty much every other swing state, who takes the burden of blame in PA, WI, NC and NV then?

Either ticket was hopeless as far as Gaza went. On that issue Netanyahu was going to be a winner either way.
 
Raoul said:
Voted for the guy who will help a now emboldened Netanyahu completely annex the West Bank.

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Is official annexation (which is de facto there) really that much worse than the ongoing genocide in Gaza + the pogroms in the WB? People are tired of seeing little kids getting blown into pieces by american weapons… and the orange man convinced them he might bring some sort of peace. Can you blame them? They’ve seen what the Dems stand for over the past 13 months. I really doubt Trump can do worse. The worst case scenario seems to be : more of the same, and at least you and other liberals might start calling it out at some point once it is Trump behind the ”genocide weheel” instead of Biden…
 
It’s a funny old world isn’t it, people voting because of too much “wokeness” or whatever but elect a convicted felon, serial sexual assaulter (who brags about it) and who tried to overturn an election and helped take away abortion rights

the Democratic party needs to reform in my view, but I won’t hold my breathe

Americans deserve better choices than this
 
Raoul said:
The Democratic party is going to need a major autopsy after last night.
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Whatever autopsy they came out with is likely to be wrong, but political winds might carry them back into power anyway (if there is still an election)

The GOP after 2012 concluded that they need a better outreach to reach Hispanic voters, in 2016 they nominated a man who started his campaign saying Mexicans are criminals and rapists.

The Dems after 2016 talked incessantly about the need for a new generation of leadership, providing voters with fresh energy, because Hillary Clinton was old and riddled with scandals, then nominated the young buck Joe Biden.

The more worrying signs is gen Z men and Latino men are breaking in the GOP direction and that political identity, once formed, can be hard to shake. The party that was once giddy about increasing share of non-whites in the electorate is now starting to be doomed by it, if they don't reverse the trend.
 
Skills said:
I think women in general are more distrusting, skeptical and harder on other women than they are on men.

I actually don't believe a woman democrat candidate can win an election for a long time.

It's more likely a women candidate wins the republicans an election if one ever makes it on the ballot, before one does for the democrats. It's too much of an uphill battle coming from the democrats side.
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This is actually pretty spot on. Some of them will always vote against their own interests.
 
erikcred said:
As for the sky subscription, you're worried that a chatbot (hope you know that that's all it is) is just doing what a bot does?

It's so easy to ignore if you wanted. It's no different from a paragraph saying "thank you for messaging me, would you like to sign up for a free jetski, select yes or no while I locate the correct customer service rep for you". At the same time, it's easy to get offended if you're looking to be offended all the time.
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It is completely irrelevant to the issue and an unneccessary wall of text making dealing with virtual assistant a slightly worse experience for no reason. The biggest issue with that is that it has absolutely nothing to do with politics, but is just pure corporate bullshit that lets them wash their branding without doing anything to actually improve the thing that they allegedly stand behind. It's a travesty that political issues get tangled up with that and people that have nothing to do with that are actually the ones getting flak for it.
 
SirAF said:
Trying to look at the positive side of (yeah right!) things: there should be a decent chance of a significantly better Dem candidate in 2028. Obviously too soon, but I'm guessing that Newsom might be licking his lips right now? @Raoul

If Harris had won and thus become the candidate by default in 2028 then Newsom, and his likes, would have been blocked until 2032 - which might have been too late for Gavin at least.
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Shapiro and Newsom are the obvious two imo. Watch out for Gallego after his showing in AZ. That could be a route the Dems go to win back latino voters. Whitmer is another possibility but I can't see Dems going woman candidate again. She's probably a good guess for VP like Harris in 2020. My dark horse for 2028 is Mark Kelly.
 
Raoul said:
The Democratic party is going to need a major autopsy after last night.
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Do you honestly see them doing that though Raoul? The should have done that 8 years ago really

I think they’ll dig in and put up another puppet in 28
 
SirAF said:
Trying to look at the positive side of (yeah right!) things: there should be a decent chance of a significantly better Dem candidate in 2028. Obviously too soon, but I'm guessing that Newsom might be licking his lips right now? @Raoul

If Harris had won and thus become the candidate by default in 2028 then Newsom, and his likes, would have been blocked until 2032 - which might have been too late for Gavin at least.
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Gavin is the top Dem for 2028 among the bookies right now. Harris is tied with her but I think we can safely eliminate her after two consecutive calamitous failures culminating in the Dems actually losing the popular vote to an orange traffic cone.

It will probably wind up a contest between Gavin, Pete, Josh Shapiro, and someone like Andy Bashear. I'd like to say Whittmer would also be an option but given the PTSD of having watched Hillary and Harris crash and burn badly, I think they will stick with a male candidate.

Unsurprisingly, Vance is leading the odds for the Rs in 28, with the likes of DeSantis, Haley, and Youngkin probably also in the mix.
 
Sky1981 said:
Do we even have a republican voters in here?
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Sure but we always have to ban the ones who admit it and then don't run away very quickly, because rarely can people describe their motivations for voting Republican without their reasons breaking caf rules.
 
I think in many cases it comes down to this:

Many people are disadvantaged, marginalized, poor and without perspective. The system is unfair to them and makes it virtually impossible for them to improve their situation. Instead it’s getting gradually worse.
There is one party that promises they won’t let things get worse or as bad as the other party might. However experience teaches us that it will indeed get a little worse.
The other party was highjacked by a candidate promising to burn the whole thing down.

It doesn’t take a sociology degree to see the appeal for the candidate who wants to burn everything down. The chance to build a better system on the ashes of the old one is just more appealing than more of the same.
 
People often say the GOP should reinvent itself if Trump loses (after all, he's lost before). But I wonder if it’s actually the Democrats who might need to rethink their approach—perhaps by moving slightly more right? The reality is, the country has shown strong support for the right-wing populist figure. Kamala Harris hasn’t seemed to broaden the Democratic coalition, despite her stances on issues like abortion. There's a lack of trust in her so-called moderate policies. In 2020, Trump likely would not have lost if it weren't for the impact of COVID-19.

I mean it is really dark thinking about it.
 
Tarrou said:
Do you honestly see them doing that though Raoul? The should have done that 8 years ago really

I think they’ll dig in and put up another puppet in 28
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They have to because they have to reorganize quickly and formulate a strategy to reclaim Congress by the mid terms, so they can have more leverage to thwart Trump's policies to prevent Vance from successfully running on them in 28.
 
Raoul said:
Gavin is the top Dem for 2028 among the bookies right now. Harris is tied with her but I think we can safely eliminate her after two consecutive calamitous failures culminating in the Dems actually losing the popular vote to an orange traffic cone.

It will probably wind up a contest between Gavin, Pete, Josh Shapiro, and someone like Andy Bashear. I'd like to say Whittmer would also be an option but given the PTSD of having watched Hillary and Harris crash and burn badly, I think they will stick with a male candidate.

Unsurprisingly, Vance is leading the odds for the Rs in 28, with the likes of DeSantis, Haley, and Youngkin probably also in the mix.
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Would be so remarkable for Harris to run in 2028. :lol: But then again no one expected Biden to try to run again at 81.
 
Raoul said:
Gavin is the top Dem for 2028 among the bookies right now. Harris is tied with her but I think we can safely eliminate her after two consecutive calamitous failures culminating in the Dems actually losing the popular vote to an orange traffic cone.

It will probably wind up a contest between Gavin, Pete, Josh Shapiro, and someone like Andy Bashear. I'd like to say Whittmer would also be an option but given the PTSD of having watched Hillary and Harris crash and burn badly, I think they will stick with a male candidate.

Unsurprisingly, Vance is leading the odds for the Rs in 28.
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As much as I like Pete, he won't stand a chance, based on what we say America won't elect a gay man. As much as I dislike Shapiro, he won't stand a chance either with his overly rehearsed copycat Obama speaking pattern. It's going to be either Newsom or someone rising up, maybe Beshear, I haven't heard him speak enough to know if he has a chance. The Dems can't afford to put anyone but their best male orator up at this point and that's clearly Newsom followed by Pete. Newsom/Whitmer is likely their strongest ticket at the moment but things can change.
 
Raoul said:
Gavin is the top Dem for 2028 among the bookies right now. Harris is tied with her but I think we can safely eliminate her after two consecutive calamitous failures culminating in the Dems actually losing the popular vote to an orange traffic cone.

It will probably wind up a contest between Gavin, Pete, Josh Shapiro, and someone like Andy Bashear. I'd like to say Whittmer would also be an option but given the PTSD of having watched Hillary and Harris crash and burn badly, I think they will stick with a male candidate.

Unsurprisingly, Vance is leading the odds for the Rs in 28, with the likes of DeSantis, Haley, and Youngkin probably also in the mix.
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Gavin must be rubbing his hands although there is a possible that Dems leadership will rig it because they think he was too "out" there before all of these.
 
Pintu said:
Is official annexation (which is de facto there) really that much worse than the ongoing genocide in Gaza + the pogroms in the WB? People are tired of seeing little kids getting blown into pieces by american weapons… and the orange man convinced them he might bring some sort of peace. Can you blame them? They’ve seen what the Dems stand for over the past 13 months. I really doubt Trump can do worse. The worst case scenario seems to be : more of the same, and at least you and other liberals might start calling it out at some point once it is Trump behind the ”genocide weheel” instead of Biden…
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Is a full annexation of Gaza and the West Bank and expulsion of all Palestinians from both areas worse than what has already happened there. Of course it is. Trump has bamboozled these people into believing he would be an improvement over the past four years, when he simply wanted their votes, and as with every other group he's used over the past 40 years, he will forget about them and do whatever he wants.
 
Raoul said:
Gavin is the top Dem for 2028 among the bookies right now. Harris is tied with her but I think we can safely eliminate her after two consecutive calamitous failures culminating in the Dems actually losing the popular vote to an orange traffic cone.

It will probably wind up a contest between Gavin, Pete, Josh Shapiro, and someone like Andy Bashear. I'd like to say Whittmer would also be an option but given the PTSD of having watched Hillary and Harris crash and burn badly, I think they will stick with a male candidate.

Unsurprisingly, Vance is leading the odds for the Rs in 28, with the likes of DeSantis, Haley, and Youngkin probably also in the mix.
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Gavin Newsom should have run this time. Wished Biden fecking dropped out earlier.
 
Adisa said:
Sad state of affairs when you have to prosecute someone like Trump to stop him being president. The American people should take responsibility.
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And many stated that this Trump's strong support came from prosecuting Trump at all. It is all hindsight and what not.
 
The United said:
Gavin must be rubbing his hands although there is a possible that Dems leadership will rig it because they think he was too "out" there before all of these.
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100%

I suspect he didn't stick his beak into all of this after Biden withdrew because he had a good idea about Harris' viability to win. With her out of the way, it opens up a new set of possibilities for several Dems going forward.
 
devilish said:
I doubt that the US will leave NATO. Whether it will properly support an invasion with active military intervention is a different thing altogether.
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If true, that would be even worse!
If the US officially leaves NATO, the remaining countries at least will know what they will be up against.
If the US stays, but if an attack happens, won't honor article 5 that's leaving their allies in a false security. This would be betrayal.
 
The entire debacle of Biden stepping down and the nomination being handed to Harris on a plate without an open primary meant that the Dems never had a snowball's chance in hell of beating Trump.
 
The reality is the world is politically moving right. And at pace. It’s been evident for a while to be honest but it’s now baring evidence in results. And it’s not just the US. It’s in Europe as well.

It still seems shocking, but such is the strength of that shift right that people willingly ignore the “darker” aspects of some of the people who represent the policies they do agree with.

There isn’t anyone at the moment who represents some of those policies without the baggage at the moment. But it’s still a better option than moving way left.

Democrats need to address that. All left leaning parties need to address that. And it can’t just be “it’s the right thing” or “it’s morally right” - people just don’t vote that way and humans sadly aren’t that selfless. Left leaning parties need to recognise those things whilst still energising their base on the most left policies.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Whatever autopsy they came out with is likely to be wrong, but political winds might carry them back into power anyway (if there is still an election)

The GOP after 2012 concluded that they need a better outreach to reach Hispanic voters, in 2016 they nominated a man who started his campaign saying Mexicans are criminals and rapists.

The Dems after 2016 talked incessantly about the need for a new generation of leadership, providing voters with fresh energy, because Hillary Clinton was old and riddled with scandals, then nominated the young buck Joe Biden.

The more worrying signs is gen Z men and Latino men are breaking in the GOP direction and that political identity, once formed, can be hard to shake. The party that was once giddy about increasing share of non-whites in the electorate is now starting to be doomed by it, if they don't reverse the trend.
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Maybe they agree with that sentiment? It's like saying the Westerners are coloniat and slave trader? It's not politically correct but i dont many Europeans would stop voting because of it. As it showns from the elections

While Harris talks a good talk but forgets about them past the elections.

If Trump called Indonesian is full of stupid people i bet he'd get more vote from Indonesian american immigrants than the other way around.

Some might agree and they dont think of it ae an insult because they don't see the description as aimed towards them.

Funny i know but votes dont lie
 
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