2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

As president, notwithstanding the Russia rumours and that shady phone call with Zelensky, Trump increased the quantity and types of weapons sold to Ukraine well over what Obama considered desirable.

He talks a big game about the "Deep State" and swamp, but he usually followed what the generals wanted, whether it was delaying the Afghan withdrawal, or supplying to Ukraine.

It might have changed in his second term in the aftermath of his impeachment over that phone call, but based on the first term, there's a pretty decent chance he would have continued supplying to Ukraine.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/365906-trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/
12/20/17
The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the administration approved the sale of Model M107A1 sniper systems and associated equipment to the country at a value of $41.5 million. The administration has not yet moved to approve sales of heavier arms requested by Ukraine’s government, including Javelin anti-tank missiles.

The move from the White House is a departure from the Obama administration, which frequently condemned Russian aggression in the Ukraine but refused to approve the sale of arms to the country’s Western-aligned government.
 
gfactor86 said:
and was based on my disgust for the Iraq war
Click to expand...

The war the conservatives backed by a larger % than Labour MPs at the time? 38% of Labour MPs voted against or abstained. Only 12% of the Tories did the same. So if that was your sole reason for voting Tory then you were heavily misinformed or just ignorant back then.

Anyway, bringing up who someone voted for 20 odd years ago is ridiculous. A lot of people do change their outlook for a variety of reasons.
 
berbatrick said:
As president, notwithstanding the Russia rumours and that shady phone call with Zelensky, Trump increased the quantity and types of weapons sold to Ukraine well over what Obama considered desirable.

He talks a big game about the "Deep State" and swamp, but he usually followed what the generals wanted, whether it was delaying the Afghan withdrawal, or supplying to Ukraine.

It might have changed in his second term in the aftermath of his impeachment over that phone call, but based on the first term, there's a pretty decent chance he would have continued supplying to Ukraine.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/365906-trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/
12/20/17
The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the administration approved the sale of Model M107A1 sniper systems and associated equipment to the country at a value of $41.5 million. The administration has not yet moved to approve sales of heavier arms requested by Ukraine’s government, including Javelin anti-tank missiles.

The move from the White House is a departure from the Obama administration, which frequently condemned Russian aggression in the Ukraine but refused to approve the sale of arms to the country’s Western-aligned government.
Click to expand...

I think "notwithstanding the shady phone call" is playing that aspect down a little too much. Trump's support was capricious at best and there's a "decent chance" he wanted to use it as leverage for personal political favours: Trump administration broke law in withholding Ukraine aid, watchdog says as Senate prepares for impeachment trial
 


So if he were to step aside and Harris is the presumptive nominee, who's the VP? I don't see any way that she's not the nominee at the convention if Biden drops out.

As a North Carolinian, I'd like to see Roy Cooper. He's term limited as governor, won't be resigning from a Senate seat or other vital office, and has consistently won NC.
 
Carolina Red said:
1. That’s a really wild way to describe the Heritage Foundation.

2. Some dossier prepared by a Reagan luggage carrier gave us the Iraq War.

3. You’re misreading the situation here. Trump isn’t Project 2025. The creators of Project 2025 proposes to use Trump as a means to their ends & while folks are focused on the absurdity that Trump brings to the Presidency, they’ll be working in the background to set themselves up to maintain power in this country long after he’s gone.
Click to expand...

The last 15 pages of this thread, especially those since the debate have really shown that a lot of people commenting genuinely have no clue about the true dangers of another Trump presidency, Project 25 or how long this has all been planned and how deep this goes.

I strongly urge people watch this

https://documentaryheaven.com/gods-next-army/

It was broadcast here in the UK nearly 20 years ago and it's only really now you can see the fruition of the plan reaping benefits. Patrick Henry College is just one of a number of colleges around the country that all have the same goal. Moulding students to infiltrate every single area of law and politics, filling the ranks with die hard right wing Christians who will eventually outnumber liberals and then control the courts, law enforcement, and all government positions from District Attorneys, Mayors, Senators and ultimately the Supreme Court and the Presidency.

Project 25 is just the latest extension of this idea that was put in place two decades ago, and possibly farther back than that. If you read up and watch the numerous documentaries about Project 25 then watch God's Next Army, you will understand how fecking frightening this truly is.

Trump has formed a cult, he absolutely has taken over from the Tea Party and has millions of followers. But the thing is, Trump is a selfish,. narcissistic moron who is just out for himself. His followers love him but he's not going to be around forever, and for all the dumbasses who he has conned, there are many who are just using him to further their agenda because while he has used it to aid his own political career, and while he and many of his followers may be dumb as feck, lots of these people using him are most definitely not and he's unwittingly helping them achieve their goals too.

Trump is dangerous enough as it is, but long term, if he does get reelected he will be out for blood and the destruction he will cause through his petty quest for vengeance will be savage and highly destructive, but long term it could be catastrophic as the members of Project 25, many who have been educated in so called 'Liberty' schools and colleges have been prepped for this their whole lives and are looking at the future, not just the 4 years that Trump will be in power for.

He's already stacked the courts, the Supreme Court and revoked many important laws. Biden has done his best to undo many, but if Trump and Project 25 get their way then the entire government, legal and judicial system, law enforcement and all the government controlled alphabet agencies could be stacked full with Trump yes men and women who will be made up of hard right Christians that have the sole aim of enforcing their doctrine on the entire country for generations to come. As usual, it won't just be the USA that suffers, but potentially everyone else on the planet too.

It's fecking frightening, terrifying in fact. People need to stop just looking at it as just what damage a Trump Presidency can cause and look at the bigger picture because in that Trump is just a puppet and those pulling his strings and using him are far worse.
 
Sir Matt said:
So if he were to step aside and Harris is the presumptive nominee, who's the VP? I don't see any way that she's not the nominee at the convention if Biden drops out.
Click to expand...

harris been invisible for the last 4 years she ain’t in the race
 
Sir Matt said:


So if he were to step aside and Harris is the presumptive nominee, who's the VP? I don't see any way that she's not the nominee at the convention if Biden drops out.

As a North Carolinian, I'd like to see Roy Cooper. He's term limited as governor, won't be resigning from a Senate seat or other vital office, and has consistently won NC.
Click to expand...

The whole idea rests on Biden administration acknowledging they can’t win. That administration includes Harris. If she doesn’t pull out of the running with him, the whole excercise is pointless.
 
SirAF said:
Has to be Newsom if that were to happen, right? He's been very visible, going abroad meeting leaders etc.
Click to expand...
He’s one out of a handful of options but it could just as well be Whitmer, Shapiro or Buttigieg.
 
berbatrick said:
As president, notwithstanding the Russia rumours and that shady phone call with Zelensky, Trump increased the quantity and types of weapons sold to Ukraine well over what Obama considered desirable.

He talks a big game about the "Deep State" and swamp, but he usually followed what the generals wanted, whether it was delaying the Afghan withdrawal, or supplying to Ukraine.

It might have changed in his second term in the aftermath of his impeachment over that phone call, but based on the first term, there's a pretty decent chance he would have continued supplying to Ukraine.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/365906-trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/
12/20/17
The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the administration approved the sale of Model M107A1 sniper systems and associated equipment to the country at a value of $41.5 million. The administration has not yet moved to approve sales of heavier arms requested by Ukraine’s government, including Javelin anti-tank missiles.

The move from the White House is a departure from the Obama administration, which frequently condemned Russian aggression in the Ukraine but refused to approve the sale of arms to the country’s Western-aligned government.
Click to expand...
Were the Javelins approved, can't remember (yes they were)? Not really a lurch towards full arms shipments to Ukraine. Any weapon to Ukraine under Trump was news but it was misleading; in fact, the Obama admin apparently sent hundreds of millions more in aid to Ukraine than the Trump admin (non-lethal mind, but a few hundred sniper rifles really isn't a tide turner)...

AP FACT CHECK: Trump distorts Obama-Biden aid to Ukraine | AP News

Trump's transactional isolationism was on full display during his term; yes, he did have some guard rails via generals & career foreign policy experts within his admin which helped the situation, but their input didn't stave off the isolationist policies on full display in the WH...

US to withdraw 12,000 troops from Germany in 'strategic' move (bbc.com) of course it was going to be spun as a pre-planned event by the Trump admin.

Donald Trump's isolationism weakens national security: Retired generals (usatoday.com)

Trump’s Final Foreign-Policy Report Card (foreignpolicy.com)

Scary when realizing that the guard rails will be reduced significantly in Trump's second term as those who take over the positions in the JCoS, NSC, & Cabinet will be of a Trump loyalist variety. Hopefully they will step up when the rubber meets the road, but we would be in unprecedented waters by that point.
 
Last edited:
Jev said:
If the Dems truly believe it when they say Trump is an existential threat to democracy, there may not be another shot.
Click to expand...

Trump has pretty much said it himself. His plans are batshit but achievable, especially with the help of more competent allies like the Project 25 crew. But as I said, they are looking long term while Trump is really only looking for the next 4 years, but the damage he will cause with the changes could last for decades.
 
Jev said:
If the Dems truly believe it when they say Trump is an existential threat to democracy, there may not be another shot.
Click to expand...

If democrats were serious they would have asked Biden to step down months ago
 
langster said:
Trump has pretty much said it himself. His plans are batshit but achievable, especially with the help of more competent allies like the Project 25 crew. But as I said, they are looking long term while Trump is really only looking for the next 4 years, but the damage he will cause with the changes could last for decades.
Click to expand...
That’s what I mean. If the Trump administration manage to pull off Project 25 or something to that effect, I shudder to think what they can do to rig future elections in their favour. That’s why stopping him now is so important.
 
Suv666 said:
If democrats were serious they would have asked Biden to step down months ago
Click to expand...
I actually believe that until recently, Biden (and those close to him) believed he was the best positioned candidate to beat Trump and that he was in fact sacrificing his senior years and four of his final years with his family by not dropping out.
 
Dems out here thinking their boy is about to terminal lucidity his way to victory. I so hope Biden wins and we get the first ever inauguration funeral. He can give the oath while being lowered into the earth.
 
berbatrick said:
As president, notwithstanding the Russia rumours and that shady phone call with Zelensky, Trump increased the quantity and types of weapons sold to Ukraine well over what Obama considered desirable.

He talks a big game about the "Deep State" and swamp, but he usually followed what the generals wanted, whether it was delaying the Afghan withdrawal, or supplying to Ukraine.

It might have changed in his second term in the aftermath of his impeachment over that phone call, but based on the first term, there's a pretty decent chance he would have continued supplying to Ukraine.



https://thehill.com/policy/international/365906-trump-administration-approves-lethal-arms-sales-to-ukraine/
12/20/17
The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the administration approved the sale of Model M107A1 sniper systems and associated equipment to the country at a value of $41.5 million. The administration has not yet moved to approve sales of heavier arms requested by Ukraine’s government, including Javelin anti-tank missiles.

The move from the White House is a departure from the Obama administration, which frequently condemned Russian aggression in the Ukraine but refused to approve the sale of arms to the country’s Western-aligned government.
Click to expand...
There is also an argument that both Crimea annexation and Russia invading Ukraine happened under Democrat watch, and nothing like that happened under Trump.

I do not think I fully buy this argument but I think it is the strongest argument someone can argue in why Russia would not have invaded Ukraine with Trump as president. Call it the madman theory or whatever.
 
SirAF said:
Has to be Newsom if that were to happen, right? He's been very visible, going abroad meeting leaders etc.
Click to expand...
But why though? California cities have become a shithole under his watch, close to unliveable. Just post videos of San Francisco, LA and San Diego with the countless homeless in drugs and attack him all day long.

I know that he looks and talks like a president, whatever it means, but the greatest state in the US is decaying with him as governor.
 
langster said:
Trump is dangerous enough as it is, but long term, if he does get reelected he will be out for blood and the destruction he will cause through his petty quest for vengeance will be savage and highly destructive, but long term it could be catastrophic as the members of Project 25, many who have been educated in so called 'Liberty' schools and colleges have been prepped for this their whole lives and are looking at the future, not just the 4 years that Trump will be in power for.
Click to expand...

Palpatine about to execute Order 66 with his clone army over here.
 
Revan said:
But why though? California cities have become a shithole under his watch, close to unliveable. Just post videos of San Francisco, LA and San Diego with the countless homeless in drugs and attack him all day long.

I know that he looks and talks like a president, whatever it means, but the greatest state in the US is decaying with him as governor.
Click to expand...

I don't have enough knowledge about California locally to address that - the US posters would have to answer how culpable Newsom is in that. I am aware of the homeless situation though.
I guess we're talking about name recognition - three months is not a long time to get someone up and running. Newsom being "presidential" is obviously a part of it as well. Add to that his trips to China etc.
 
Newsom would flop hard in swing States such as Michigan and Pennsylvania, i reckon.

California doesn't sell well nationally, and Newsom being sort of the stereotype of a liberal, Californian elite, wouldn't help either.
 
Revan said:
But why though? California cities have become a shithole under his watch, close to unliveable. Just post videos of San Francisco, LA and San Diego with the countless homeless in drugs and attack him all day long.

I know that he looks and talks like a president, whatever it means, but the greatest state in the US is decaying with him as governor.
Click to expand...
The free market seems to disagree with your assessment that Californian cities have become unlivable: https://usatoday.com/story/money/2024/03/12/most-expensive-housing-markets-in-america/72930811007/
 
They are not going to switch out Biden. If they do, they will have lost already (even as it seems they are certain to lose). It was posted in the Biden thread time and time again that the man was clearly after aging quite a lot in quite a short period of time. The debate, just gone, is the result of that (of not considering the weaknesses of your own leader who happens to be in his eighties).

neverdie said:
he'll have three or four years on reagan before he begins his second term, if he does run again and win. most say reagan's dementia didn't become a factor until his second term even if some claim it was there in his first term. i suppose biden could do it in theory but it doesn't give you a good sense of what's needed to be president if we're talking about ways to handle someone through that office for four years with knowledge of the likely problems well in advance. i think he served his function. if he goes down as the person who got trump thrown out and maybe for the i.r.a. legislation, then it'll be a good record. so i suppose it's less about whether it can be done and more about whether it should be done.
Click to expand...
Basically where it's at now. He has been stage-handled throughout the entire electoral process. Covid helped him the first time round when he was more cognitively active. It made traditional campaigning less necessary (or legal). The man is out on his feet. Trump might be lying on his feet but what people, generally, see is a man which can stand up all the same. Should have switched and done so according to Biden's own pledge.
 
Last edited:
Sir Matt said:


So if he were to step aside and Harris is the presumptive nominee, who's the VP? I don't see any way that she's not the nominee at the convention if Biden drops out.

As a North Carolinian, I'd like to see Roy Cooper. He's term limited as governor, won't be resigning from a Senate seat or other vital office, and has consistently won NC.
Click to expand...

Uhm… but wouldn’t that mean we’d immediately have crazy ass Robinson as our Gov? I can’t see Cooper full time campaigning without stepping down.
 
neverdie said:
That's not a good thing. Driven by more than just local Californian economics but 40% of the population considering relocating due to a state-wide inaccessible housing market is scarcely a bonus.
Click to expand...
The price is a function of demand.
 
Abizzz said:
The price is a function of demand.
Click to expand...
Is that a good thing if the result is an exodus of long-term residents? A kind of double gentrification. It's not Newsom who created that demand, either. It's the job market if we really are going there and the high-tech saturation of SV.
 
neverdie said:
Is that a good thing if the result is an exodus of long-term residents? A kind of double gentrification. It's not Newsom who created that demand, either. It's the job market if we really are going there and the high-tech saturation of SV.
Click to expand...
I stated that Californian cities are hardly unlivable and supplied the facts that I think support my theory. I'm not interested in much more, and especially not interested in discussing the allocation of living space in a high demand area, to be perfectly honest.
 
Last edited:
Abizzz said:
I stated that Californian cities are hardly unlivable and supplied the facts that I think support my theory. I'm not interested in much more, and especially not interested in discussing the allocation of living space in a high demand area, to be perfectly honest.
Click to expand...
California has still a very strong economy and lots of cities there are industrial hubs (San Francisco and San Jose for IT industry, LA for music and movies). But the fentanyl and homeless crisis have skyrocketed under Newsom. Most people I know who live in SF absolutely hate SF nowadays and that was the nicest city in the US. Not surprisingly, despite having such a strong economy, California has been losing population over the last three years while states like Texas have been increasing their population over 1% yearly.

So, I do not understand Newsom appeal and how will he win this election. Sure, he is better than the demented Biden, but except his look, there isn’t much that he brings to the table.

I think that the election is already lost, but if they have to make such a late move, it probably should be Whitmer.
 
Morty_ said:
Newsom would flop hard in swing States such as Michigan and Pennsylvania, i reckon.

California doesn't sell well nationally, and Newsom being sort of the stereotype of a liberal, Californian elite, wouldn't help either.
Click to expand...

Whitmer is the Dems best bet IMO, but honestly I think she'd be better off waiting until 2028 to pick up the pieces.
 
chris123 said:
Whitmer is the Dems best bet IMO, but honestly I think she'd be better off waiting until 2028 to pick up the pieces.
Click to expand...
If Trump wins, there may not be elections in 2028.

I agree that she would better appeal to swing voters and to voters in the Mid West.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.