2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

He has a good point. Somehow equating what trump did to Biden listening to his entire family as equal is silly from a reporter. But, it is the same thing they have been doing since the debate as well. Biden is old, but trump was a complete liar and casual racist as a sidenote of course.

I am reading the SC decision at my #blackjob today while keeping an eye out for the migrants supposedly on the way to take it.
 
The democrats are sticking to Biden, and abandoning their country. This should be sane people line from now on. May be they'll wake up then.

Geez, they learned nothing from 2016. A second Trump term with a 7th and may be an 8th supreme court appointment would be a deserved punishment.
 
Avatar said:
The democrats are sticking to Biden, and abandoning their country. This should be sane people line from now on. May be they'll wake up then.

Geez, they learned nothing from 2016. A second Trump term with a 7th and may be an 8th supreme court appointment would be a deserved punishment.
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Deserved punishment for who? The millionaire octogenarians who run the party and will be just fine no matter who wins? Such a stupid take.
 
The "fascism" that will be unleashed must not be that bad if the leaders of the opposition party will be fine once it comes.
 
WI_Red said:
Deserved punishment for who? The millionaire octogenarians who run the party and will be just fine no matter who wins? Such a stupid take.
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So all these fundraisers and party figures are not really panicking and it's all a ruse?
 
WI_Red said:
I'm not arguing anything of the sort. I merely took issue with the "deserved punishment" line.
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Yup.

SCOTUS will be lost for more than a generation, abortion will be outlawed, education will be fecked and kids won't hear about slavery, the Appalachian Trail will probably get a big ass oil pipe through it etc. But feck the Dems for being useless right, so they have all of this coming to them? :rolleyes:
 
SirAF said:
Yup.

SCOTUS will be lost for more than a generation, abortion will be outlawed, education will be fecked and kids won't hear about slavery, the Appalachian Trail will probably get a big ass oil pipe through it etc. But feck the Dems for being useless right, so they have all of this coming to them? :rolleyes:
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Every single biden administration official does deserve the reward of spending a few weeks in gaza :)

After all, aid is coming through the pier, with israel is cooperating in its distribution, and the IDF has been certified by the state dept as not committing any human rights violations too!
 
SirAF said:
Yup.

SCOTUS will be lost for more than a generation, abortion will be outlawed, education will be fecked and kids won't hear about slavery, the Appalachian Trail will probably get a big ass oil pipe through it etc. But feck the Dems for being useless right, so they have all of this coming to them? :rolleyes:
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Republicans have won the popular vote precisely once, in the last 30 or so years, and that was when Duby already shouldn't have been president due to losing the popular vote first time.

So no, Americans don't deserve this, the electoral college is the enemy of the people.
 
berbatrick said:
Every single biden administration official does deserve the reward of spending a few weeks in gaza :)

After all, aid is coming through the pier, with israel is cooperating in its distribution, and the IDF has been certified by the state dept as not committing any human rights violations too!
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I'm not arguing against that. What I'm saying is that, although some clever folks here think that it is "deserved" that we end up with another Trump term, that is mainly going to feck the American People. I don't give a shit about Biden or the Dems. I "support" them because they are the only normal, albeit flawed, party in the US. The only viable option to govern. You gotta work with what you got and if more people realised that "we" wouldn't be in the sea of horseshit we are right now.


.
Morty_ said:
Republicans have won the popular vote precisely once, in the last 30 or so years, and that was when Duby already shouldn't have been president due to losing the popular vote first time.

So no, Americans don't deserve this, the electoral college is the enemy of the people.
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Exactly my point.
 
Morty_ said:
Republicans have won the popular vote precisely once, in the last 30 or so years, and that was when Duby already shouldn't have been president due to losing the popular vote first time.

So no, Americans don't deserve this, the electoral college is the enemy of the people.
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So basically it is working as intended since the writers of the Constitution only viewed property owning white Christian men as people worthy of protection.
 
Pexbo said:
Why are Democrats so fecking bad at politics?

Trump is going to be president again and it’s going to be an absolute disaster globally.
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Its a left-wing thing. Remember last election where the Brexit party dropped out of a bunch of races to avoid splitting the right wing vote, something the LDs and Labour would never ever do. Right wing parties are all about their philosophy winning, left wing parties are about doing what they think is right. Unfortunately in politics one of those ideologies wins a lot and one loses a lot.
 
SirAF said:
I'm not arguing against that. What I'm saying is that, although some clever folks here think that it is "deserved" that we end up with another Trump term, that is mainly going to feck the American People. I don't give a shit about Biden or the Dems. I "support" them because they are the only normal, albeit flawed, party in the US. The only viable option to govern. You gotta work with what you got and if more people realised that "we" wouldn't be in the sea of horseshit we are right now.
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i don't have the time to argue properly, but basically my point is that this "viable option" isn't so viable - morally is one thing, but also in terms of beating the republicans.
trump's people have written their plans out, and the dems have done nothing to slow any of it.
the most damning thing about this viability is that, without a change in politics, it is going to be this decaying thing vs the right, every single election from now until .. is going to be "the most important chance to stop fascism", and there simply isn't an eternal 272 EV coalition to do that. people vote because of economic reasons or immigration or charisma or the stupidest things possible. at some point, most likely this year itself, that dam will break.
the dems had to be unified and decisive if they did perceive this as a fascist threat. for example, appointing a better AG once it became clear that garland wasn't up to the job. or, trying to make laws about the election. or, court packing. they haven't even whispered about any of this, let alone try.'

i think the alternative explanation is that for this party, there are worse things than losing, one of which is actually testing the limits of the power of the president and congress.
 
berbatrick said:
i don't have the time to argue properly, but basically my point is that this "viable option" isn't so viable - morally is one thing, but also in terms of beating the republicans.
trump's people have written their plans out, and the dems have done nothing to slow any of it.
the most damning thing about this viability is that, without a change in politics, it is going to be this decaying thing vs the right, every single election from now until .. is going to be "the most important chance to stop fascism", and there simply isn't an eternal 272 EV coalition to do that. people vote because of economic reasons or immigration or charisma or the stupidest things possible. at some point, most likely this year itself, that dam will break.
the dems had to be unified and decisive if they did perceive this as a fascist threat. for example, appointing a better AG once it became clear that garland wasn't up to the job. or, trying to make laws about the election. or, court packing. they haven't even whispered about any of this, let alone try.
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You're not wrong. I hear you! Especially on the court packing etc. I understand that making each election an "existential" one isn't viable long term. But what is the option? I completely get your points, but I still refuse to exonerate the voters as they could easily stop these worthless bastards via the ballot each and every time.
 
So they’re sticking with him?
Madness.
It’s so over for the US.
 
Question: when we were in 2008 and Democrats had secured Obama as POTUS winning 60% of the states, the Senate and the House with 57% and 59% of the seats respectively and held 58% of the governors, with a relatively neutral SCOTUS, what did they do to ensure better representation/end vote suppression/stop gerrymandering? What happened then, when the scenario was unbelievably favorable?
 
Krakenzero said:
Question: when we were in 2008 and Democrats had secured Obama as POTUS winning 60% of the states, the Senate and the House with 57% and 59% of the seats respectively and held 58% of the governors, with a relatively neutral SCOTUS, what did they do to ensure better representation/end vote suppression/stop gerrymandering? What happened then, when the scenario was unbelievably favorable?
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They should have done more, on a number of subjects, probably.

But worth keeping in mind the Dems were more conservative back then, blue dog senators were common, unlike now, Manchin the last one and is retiring.

So, not as favorable as it looked.
 
Suv666 said:
So they’re sticking with him?
Madness.
It’s so over for the US.
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What can they realistically do? The election is in four months and no one is evidently a better option.

Maybe they could make a plan of succession that helps removing Biden from the focal point of attention, something like Whitmer as VP and Newsom or someone else as chief of campaign. That way you reinforce that the people are voting for a party, a group of ideas and not for a declining old man. Plus, it forces Trump's hand to come up with a team to counter it.
 
SirAF said:
SCOTUS will be lost for more than a generation, abortion will be outlawed
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I don't understand this future tense here. Liberals already lost SCOTUS for more than a generation and they don't have any kind of feasible plan to get it back. It's done, you got cooked.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I don't understand this future tense here. Liberals already lost SCOTUS for more than a generation and they don't have any kind of feasible plan to get it back. It's done, you got cooked.
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There are a couple of actual old conservative justices on the court, if Trump gets in he replaces them with 35 year olds, you know this,
 
That already happened, Trump did that last time he was president, he replaced them, the court is now 6-3, they overturned Roe V Wade. There is no ongoing fight here, liberals lost.

You could think about things two-three generations from now but I don't think that's very meaningful, we have little way to predict how things will be then.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
That already happened, Trump did that last time he was president, he replaced them, the court is now 6-3, they overturned Roe V Wade. There is no ongoing fight here, liberals lost.
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Fine, so what's even the point of elections then, everything is done and dusted anyway, right?

Is it impossible for you to be even remotely positive?

What if one of them dies next 4 years, and dems actually wins the white house again?

I'm presenting a scenario that is not very far-fetched, and you just dismiss it.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I don't understand this future tense here. Liberals already lost SCOTUS for more than a generation and they don't have any kind of feasible plan to get it back. It's done, you got cooked.
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The two oldest are republican, as are 3 of the top 4. If Trump gets back in and they flip the senate it’s very easy to replace at the very least Thomas with someone 20 years his junior and less corruption baggage. Bad situations can get worse you know
 
Morty_ said:
Fine, so what's even the point of elections then, everything is done and dusted anyway, right?
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This is the problem with turning all political issues into pleas for votes. The Supreme Court was going to be lost unless Dems won in 2016, that was the line, "the most consequential election in our lifetime", and they lost. If all can be undone in a few political cycles then it was not "the most consequential election in our lifetimes." It cannot be both.

Any serious plan to win the Supreme Court back would have begun with replacing all the liberal judges with "35-year-olds" ala Trump. Democrats did not do this. They replaced one. They accepted defeat a long time ago.
 
Honestly anyone coming in here talking about a second Trump term being “deserved” in any way should just be removed from the thread. It’s such a fecking dumb and ignorant take it doesn’t warrant entertaining with reasoned arguments.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
That already happened, Trump did that last time he was president, he replaced them, the court is now 6-3, they overturned Roe V Wade. There is no ongoing fight here, liberals lost.

You could think about things two-three generations from now but I don't think that's very meaningful, we have little way to predict how things will be then.
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Alito is 74 and Thomas is 76. It is entirely realistic that one or both of them could die of old age during the next 4-8 years. If Biden, although it is less likely now, wins and then the Dems can muster up a decent candidate for 2028 it is game on. With a little bit of luck it is entirely plausible it could be 4-3 in four years time.

Also, as @Charlie Foley says, it could also become a whole lot worse if Trump is able to replace those two with someone younger. THEN the goose is truly cooked.
 
SirAF said:
Alito is 74 and Thomas is 76. It is entirely realistic that one or both of them could die of old age during the next 4-8 years. If Biden, although it is less likely now, wins and then the Dems can muster up a decent candidate for 2028 it is game on. With a little bit of luck it is entirely plausible it could be 4-3 in four years time.

Also, as @Charlie Foley says, it could also become a whole lot worse if Trump is able to replace those two with someone younger. THEN the goose is truly cooked.
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If we had any luck it could be 4-3 in 4 months time
 
SirAF said:
Alito is 74 and Thomas is 76. It is entirely realistic that one or both of them could die of old age during the next 4-8 years. If Biden, although it is less likely now, wins and then the Dems can muster up a decent candidate for 2028 it is game on. With a little bit of luck it is entirely plausible it could be 4-3 in four years time.

Also, as @Charlie Foley says, it could also become a whole lot worse if Trump is able to replace those two with someone younger. THEN the goose is truly cooked.
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Not only that, conservatives are running out of time. Their most reliable voter base is dying, cities in Texas and Florida are growing rapidly - with lots of highly educated tech workers moving to Texas especially. Even within solid red states in the south blue cities are growing. The GOP are trying to pass all kinds of voter suppression, election overturning mechanisms and anti-liberal policies to make the states less attractive - and failing.

If Democrats won this year, could reign in some of the voter supression and managed to get a solid candidate for 2028 - the GOP could very much struggle to regain the presidency without significant reform.

The supreme court is a problem though, it has never been this blatantly political.
 
SirAF said:
Alito is 74 and Thomas is 76. It is entirely realistic that one or both of them could die of old age during the next 4-8 years. If Biden, although it is less likely now, wins and then the Dems can muster up a decent candidate for 2028 it is game on. With a little bit of luck it is entirely plausible it could be 4-3 in four years time.
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I don't think this sounds particularly plausible.

It is quite difficult for a party to hold the presidency for three terms in the U.S. The last time it happened was Reagan, an extremely popular president, getting his vicepresident elected for a single term. Biden is an extremely unpopular president, who is unlikely to help his unpopular vicepresident get elected. This is an electoral pitch, but not plausible. And that's without getting into the issue that you'd also need to hold the Senate for 8 years in order to shift the balance of the court.

I also think the whole thing is a fundamental misread of the situation. The court is not lost because there are more conservatives than liberals in it. It is lost because it has a poor system that is ripe for abuse if anyone wishes to politicize it, which they have. I have not seen any credible plan to counter this. 'Never losing elections' is not a plan.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
I don't think this sounds particularly plausible.
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Forget about 2028 then. If Biden wins in november it is not impossible that one of those two bite the dust during that term anyway.

My point is though: no one should fecking give up. Biden was right about one thing the other day: when you get knocked down you get back up!
 
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