2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins

Dudu said:
Touche :lol:

It has to be combination of the two though.
Just look at that post-debate clip. It just comes across as more coherent and a lot more organic than anything he said during the actual debate.
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I was mainly agreeing by mimicking Biden’s phrasing yesterday :lol:

I totally agree.
 
@JoeBiden

Folks, I might not walk as easily or talk as smoothly as I used to.

I might not debate as well as I used to.

But what I do know is... Oh God, I can't remember. Where am I?

What is this?

Jill ?
Jill ?
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SirAF said:
I understand and respect your point, but I vehemently disagree. The voters have a grave responsibility too. We all know what Trump is and what he represents. YOU (well, not you specifically Rado!) have the chance to stop him. fecking do it. Don't come crying afterwards when they had the chance to stop it. Would it have been so bloody horrible if Hillary had won? Of course not. In fact it would have been 100x better.
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Votes should be earned.

This is one of the biggest problems with the Democrats, they fail to realise that basic point and think that pointing at the evils of the GOP is all it takes.

Spoiler: it takes more than that.
 
SirAF said:
I understand and respect your point, but I vehemently disagree. The voters have a grave responsibility too. We all know what Trump is and what he represents. YOU (well, not you specifically Rado!) have the chance to stop him. fecking do it. Don't come crying afterwards when they had the chance to stop it. Would it have been so bloody horrible if Hillary had won? Of course not. In fact it would have been 100x better.
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If Biden loses after this performance, then it is entirely on him.

The American voter is being quite clear here. He has seemingly decided they're bluffing and he'll call their bluff.
 
SirAF said:
I understand and respect your point, but I vehemently disagree. The voters have a grave responsibility too. We all know what Trump is and what he represents. YOU (well, not you specifically Rado!) have the chance to stop him. fecking do it. Don't come crying afterwards when they had the chance to stop it. Would it have been so bloody horrible if Hillary had won? Of course not. In fact it would have been 100x better.
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i don't personally give a feck if the president is dead, has dementia, whatever. for me, he's the US president, leader of the free world, and that's a structurally evil position usually filled by evil men and their evil advisors.

but americans, especially those who vote, care about the paegentry and pomp and visuals of the presidency, they want leaders, they want to think their ship is being run by a great or at least kind or strong man, not y autopilot and larger structural forces. the political system runs on that mythos. you can't expect them to cast it aside.
 
Rado_N said:
Votes should be earned.

This is one of the biggest problems with the Democrats, they fail to realise that basic point and think that pointing at the evils of the GOP is all it takes.

Spoiler: it takes more than that.
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Iker Quesadillas said:
If Biden loses after this performance, then it is entirely on him.
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Look, we're obviously not going to agree on this. Under any remotely NORMAL situation I'd agree with you guys 100% on this. If the opponent was the GOP of Bush 41 and 43, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Jeb fecking Bush then I would just have said "Okay, if they can't muster up anyone better then screw it" and just grit my teeth through four years of "normal" conservative idiots. However, that calculus changed in 2015 and I know that you guys KNOW that.

Your idealism and principles are admirable, but very naive in my view. The voters have a huge responsibility here. They can stop the Republicans moving forward on abortion and so many other important issues if they can just be arsed to vote.

That's it, now I'm off to watch the latest Criminal Minds episode. Wheels up!
 
SirAF said:
Your idealism and principles are admirable, but very naive in my view. The voters have a huge responsibility here. They can stop the Republicans moving forward on abortion and so many other important issues if they can just be arsed to vote.
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This has nothing to do with idealism or principles or ideology. It's a largely apolitical issue.

Joe Biden is too old to be president. He is 81 years old and would be 86 at the end of his term. You'd have to be exceptionally lucid for an octagenarian to do a good job in these circumstances, and the evidence suggests he is not. Voters of all ideological persuasions are aware of this. Polls have found anywhere from 44-76% of Democrats think Biden is too old to serve another term. Biden and various circles adjacent to him have decided "you're stuck with me and you wouldn't dare not voting." That makes it his responsibility.

His age is not a trivial issue. It is a legitimate problem, one that goes beyond ideology. Dems spent a long time complaining about conservatives voting for Trump despite all his issues just because he would support conservative policies; this is the exact same thing.
 
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Suedesi said:


This played out exactly as I predicted - I even got some flak from our resident 'political experts' here for saying Biden will get obliterated in the debates and that Trump is likely to dominate Biden in a televised debate


@Krakenzero @calodo2003 @VorZakone @Morty_ you know who you are
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Yeah, but you have a bit of a history here, don't you? I mean, if we're bringing receipts.

Suedesi in 2018 said:
Actually, this is a pretty good result for Trump. His position in the GOP is cemented, and Republicans picked up 4 seats in Senate. Blue wave turned out to be a puddle. Compare 2018 results with say 2010 (2 years after Obama's first election) - when the Democrats got annihilated at the congressional, state and local level - and you'll see that Republicans (aka Trump) did pretty well, which bodes well for his re-election in 2020.

This is the House results map

live_map_house.png
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Suedesi in 2019 said:
Think Trump will crush Biden, regardless of what some polls say right now. Biden is just very unlikeable, and will not energize the party base to come vote (aka Hillary MK 2). I'm not sure his record under Obama is anything to write home about either.
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Suedesi in 2020 said:
Hillary Clinton's campaign focused on what a terrible person Trump was. It turned out enough voters knew that and didn't care.
Now Biden is once again focused on what a terrible person Trump is. Message received, many times over. Outcome will be the same.

fecking idiots.
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Suedesi in 2020 said:
Trump beats Biden
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Suedesi in 2020 said:
If Biden implodes by November/December, I can foresee opportunity for a centrist to emerge, like Bloomberg or ahem Hillary.

I bet she's thinking about running (and losing) again.
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Iker Quesadillas said:
This has nothing to do with idealism or principles or ideology. It's a largely apolitical issue.

Joe Biden is too old to be president. He is 81 years old and would be 86 at the end of his term. You'd have to be exceptionally lucid for an octagenarian to do a good job in these circumstances, and the evidence suggests he is not. Voters of all ideological persuasions are aware of this. Polls have found anywhere from 44-76% of Democrats think Biden is too old to serve another term. Biden and various circles adjacent to him have decided "you're stuck with me and you wouldn't dare not voting." That makes it his responsibility.

His age is not a trivial issue. It is a legitimate problem, one that goes beyond ideology. Dems spent a long time complaining about conservatives voting for Trump despite all his issues just because he would support conservative policies; this is the exact same thing.
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I think most Americans would vote for a literal dead man over Trump at those point.
 
SirAF said:
Look, we're obviously not going to agree on this. Under any remotely NORMAL situation I'd agree with you guys 100% on this. If the opponent was the GOP of Bush 41 and 43, Mitt Romney, John McCain and Jeb fecking Bush then I would just have said "Okay, if they can't muster up anyone better then screw it" and just grit my teeth through four years of "normal" conservative idiots. However, that calculus changed in 2015 and I know that you guys KNOW that.
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Bush was more damaging to the world than Trump. Wild how he's been rehabbed in liberal eyes.

Just reads like yet another rehash of the quadrennial 'most important election of our lifetime, democracy is literally on the ballot' line.

Genuinely expecting in 12 years or so we'll be reading 'Well of course if the opponent was just somebody like Trump then I wouldn't vote for [Democrat] but it's not Trump, it's [Current Republican]! We're teetering on the verge of facism so it's Blue down the line!"
 
Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
Bush was more damaging to the world than Trump. Wild how he's been rehabbed in liberal eyes.

Just reads like yet another rehash of the quadrennial 'most important election of our lifetime, democracy is literally on the ballot' line.

Genuinely expecting in 12 years or so we'll be reading 'Well of course if the opponent was just somebody like Trump then I wouldn't vote for [Democrat] but it's not Trump, it's [Current Republican]! We're teetering on the verge of facism so it's Blue down the line!"
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actually successfully stole an election too.
 
All this talk about Newsom or Whitmer becoming the pick is just crazy. Harris will be the nominee if Biden steps down. People forget the bedrock of the party is elderly black women and they would never forgive the party for screwing over Harris in place of a white candidate.
 
Fergies Gum said:
All this talk about Newsom or Whitmer becoming the pick is just crazy. Harris will be the nominee if Biden steps down. People forget the bedrock of the party is elderly black women and they would never forgive the party for screwing over Harris in place of a white candidate.
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If Biden steps down it will be open to quite a few people. As for Harris, she’s not very popular and doesn’t have an organic constituency, which would make it hard to simply hand it to her. Despite being half black, she doesn’t really connect politically with that community.
 
Insanity said:
Trump is a shitbag but there is too much fear mongering going on in this thread. US is not going to become an Ethno-Fascist Christian state. The system still has checks and balances, they'll hold. It's going to be a shit show but a lot of it will also be bluster.
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I wish I had that confidence, but the republicans themselves are telling us, quite clearly, otherwise. Checks and balances were in place last time and Trump still had some semi-reasonable people on his staff. They won't make that mistake again. They made a start in the first term, with stacking the courts, etc. A second term might just finish the job and ensure they never lose another election.

Project 2025 might read like it was put together by some 4chan wacko in his basement. It's actually a 920 page manifesto road-mapping the plan to turn the US into exactly what you describe, put together by Trumps largest donors and people who will no doubt serve on his staff in key positions of the US government. They will be running the country, Trump himself will be irrelevant.
 
Just to add to the depression I have to say that the loss of brain function timeline to Bidens condition is alarming. They don't go slowly, predictably, still loads of good times. Once its obvious its way later than you think and the deterioration is way quicker than you hope and four years is a moon shot to keep reasonable capacity.

That is my wider family experience anyway.


Got to bite the bullet or there is no good outcome.
 
calodo2003 said:
Every incumbent back to Carter (with the exception of W) did poorly in the first debate. We shall see with Biden.
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None of them were 80+ with clear signs of cognitive decline, I can't see this getting better for Biden.

He should have pulled out of the debate after Trump was convicted citing his belief he had no public responsibility to debate a convicted felon. Probably what I would have urged as a campaign manager/inner circle confident and seeing him every day. If he refused I'd probably have resigned.
 
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They played a clip of him from the 2020 debates on a politics podcast I listen to, just to compare, and despite having spent the last four years saying "he's so old" in here, I was shocked at the difference. It's like a different person.

He's actually so old.
 
nimic said:
They played a clip of him from the 2020 debates on a politics podcast I listen to, just to compare, and despite having spent the last four years saying "he's so old" in here, I was shocked at the difference. It's like a different person.

He's actually so old.
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the primary debates were like this. he was one of many candidates, and everybody else was focusing on attacking each other, so it didn't come out as much, and he didn't sound so quiet either. it was less sustained idiocy than yesterday, but the trailing thoughts and lack of coherence was there, and there was also a lot of bluster and (being kind) misremembering historic events. it's only in the trump debates that he was sharp.
 
Don't Kill Bill said:
Just to add to the depression I have to say that the loss of brain function timeline to Bidens condition is alarming. They don't go slowly, predictably, still loads of good times. Once its obvious its way later than you think and the deterioration is way quicker than you hope and four years is a moon shot to keep reasonable capacity.

That is my wider family experience anyway.

Got to bite the bullet or there is no good outcome.
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Hopefully just a bad day. It was stated before the debate that Biden had a cold and had done a covid test. Shoulda probably postponed it but probably thought the optics would look worse than how he thought he'd perform. He was clearly hoarse, possibly feeling like shit.

There's at least as many health concerns about Trump, although I'm not sure he's declining, hasn't changed much over the last 6 years or so, except that recent foaming in the mouth thing. He no doubt takes stimulants, not only because of the accusations/projection sent Biden's way, but he probably has ADHD, thus a legitimate reason to take them. His behaviour is so inconsistent from one day to the next. So fidgety, irritable and distracted some day and then so uncharacteristically calm and focused as he was in the debate. I guess they found the right dosage.
 
SirAF said:
It is, but what is Obama going to say if they're not ousting Biden? :p Gotta back the old dog 100% if you can't move him on.
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It's the opposite of what a leader should do. Obama is just backing the status quo and his mate and all, it's not being a leader. And Obama is still in many ways the leader of this party and the one person that could move the needle within, perhaps.
 
Simbo said:
Hopefully just a bad day. It was stated before the debate that Biden had a cold and had done a covid test. Shoulda probably postponed it but probably thought the optics would look worse than how he thought he'd perform. He was clearly hoarse, possibly feeling like shit.

There's at least as many health concerns about Trump, although I'm not sure he's declining, hasn't changed much over the last 6 years or so, except that recent foaming in the mouth thing. He no doubt takes stimulants, not only because of the accusations/projection sent Biden's way, but he probably has ADHD, thus a legitimate reason to take them. His behaviour is so inconsistent from one day to the next. So fidgety, irritable and distracted some day and then so uncharacteristically calm and focused as he was in the debate. I guess they found the right dosage.
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I must have I fallen into an alternate reality.
 
The real monster here is Jill Biden. It's elder abuse, she knows full well Joe can't handle it, but she's desperate to cling to power.
 
Anyone who tuned into the debate thinking that it was going to be anything but a car crash for Biden clearly hasn't been following US politics much for the last year. If he couldn't get through meticulously planned & scripted 10 minute press conferences without blundering and looking like a lost grandad in an airport, how did anyone think he could get through a 90 minute debate with an expert shit slinger?
 
So the story is, it was just a bad night, a bad debate, he had a cold, he started slow, he's ready to go again, it's nothing serious. When we literally just watched a man dying before our very eyes, a mind gone and body dragging behind, hurtling off this mortal coil. Why aren't we screaming?
 
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