I'm waiting for Slavoj Zizek to roll up in his McLaren.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I'm waiting for Slavoj Zizek to roll up in his McLaren.
Fair enough, it seems he was just sort of rambling without knowing what he was trying to say, which I guess is technically better than suggesting bleach injections and fits with his "never admit you're wrong or don't know what you're talking about" mantra.
The only silver lining being that Brezhnev, Andropov, and Chernenko eventually led to Gorbachev. The Dems could likewise do a bit with someone younger leading the way.
The important thing is that the DNC ignore these things completely and continue to be a Republican Party light, as that works out so well.
I know it’s quite simplified and other issues play into this. But to me it’s obvious that a big part of the problem is, that workers have absolutely no reason to believe that the dems fight for them. Because they don’t. Every now and then, they will try some half hearted policies that might slow the erosion of living standards down a little bit, but that’s about it. Trump on the other hand is burning everything down. Despite all his terrible flaws, it is not that shocking to think that this will appeal to many people who are done with the system.
I’m absolutely convinced AOC would have won this election in a landslide.
AOC wouldn't have done well because she would've been villified as a leftist by both the right and the political center. Ironically, she is no longer the leftist activist she was when she first came into office. She now has one foot firmly planted in the establishment side thanks to being groomed by Pelosi to teach her about how things actually work in DC.
As for the DNC being Republican lite and not working class enough. Its that same working class who actually support the Republicans again now, just as they did in the 80s when they jumped over to Reagan. The Dems didn't get them back until Bill Clinton ran a distinctly centrist campaign and presidency between 92 and 2000.
Feels to me like it's more of a messaging and messenger problem in the States. I really don't know how that can be fixed in the media landscape there, though. It is one of my hobby horses, so I could well just be applying my own biases like so many are in the aftermath.
May turn around in five years if Trump makes a mess of the economy and does a lot of stupid things again, but it is such an uneven playing field.
May turn around in five years if Trump makes a mess of the economy and does a lot of stupid things again, but it is such an uneven playing field.
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I think you hit the nail on the head. The Dem party doesn't have a proper leader in the Bill Clinton or Obama mold who can communicate and connect with ordinary people anymore. Trump, for better or worse, excelled with working class voters last week. Harris came across as someone who was culturally disconnected from much of the country, even though her policies would've helped more than Trump's will.
8 million in portugal between 8 parties. America really is a capitalist dystopia.
Socialist intellectuals famously never get pestered for their material conditions when they're poor.
Trump is being vilified as a right wing extremist and fascist and he’s still doing well. Better than a democratic candidate spending her entire (admittedly short) campaign, trying to appeal to a centrism that simply doesn’t exist anymore.
People don’t care about the label. They don’t care about that with AOC, either, because they like her. Because her messaging works, her personality connects with them and she’s capable to create a positive framework for her policies. She’s able to convince people that her politics might work for them.
I’d also go as far as saying that the era of Clinton is so long gone, that I struggle heavily with the comparison. Ever since, and please correct me if I’m wrong, the living standard for the working class have eroded massively and gotten worse and worse. Leading to a new and very big element of distrust not only towards certain politics and politicians, but the political system itself. In the time of Clinton, their question might have been which candidate is more capable of steering this system in a way that works for me, while now the question is, who might change or disrupt or even destroy that system in a way that allows the creation of a better one.
Hence all these Trump voters who understand perfectly well who he is, but still vote him, because he is the one offering change instead of more of the same old stuff. They aren’t voting against their best interests per se. It’s that we don’t understand that their interest is the complete or at least meaningful rebuild of the political landscape to serve their interests better.
I think the political realities have changed in a way that might render these comparisons to the somewhat recent past meaningless.
But most of all, AOC is one of them, speaking their language and understanding their issues. Compared to the rest of the DNC, she’s like a unicorn in that regard.
I really do believe that she would do much better than most Other candidates and I especially believe that she would be capable of activating huge numbers of non-voters.
Climate change is making the winters several degrees warmer - more rain, less snow. That's fine with me, not so good if you're a skier.
.The DSA this year withdrew their conditional support for AOC.
.AOC did a rally with Bernie in New York this year and it only got around 300 people to turn up(Including 50 pro Palestinians protesters who were protests AOC/Bernie stance).
.She backed Biden until the very end when it was clear his mind was mush. Along with him supporting the genocide in Gaza.
.The latest poll I could find -
This isn’t the signs of a popular or smart politician. And this is before talking about why a party who gets funding from crypto, Wall Street and billionaires isn’t going to want universal healthcare politician as its presidential candidate.
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Yeah, believe me, winter in South Carolina has gotten to the point that I hardly need more than a long sleeve t-shirt. If it's getting more mild up there, too, maybe one day I can convince my wife to let us make our way out of this place.
I personally love the snow, but she's not too keen on getting stuck in blizzard conditions.
I wonder if this kind of stuff will give donors pause in future elections. Somehow I think not. For small donation donors it's about feeling engagement, and for corporations and wealthy individuals it's about influence.
It will be interesting to see how small donors react(It really is a completely waste to give money to the democrats)and in general how the average liberal will consume media in the next 4 years.
This election result really showed the democrats party and liberal media to be off the mark.
We alread have one admitted donor in this thread who claims not to feel like his money was wasted.
If Obama was running against Trump then he would have won and the media would have been on the mark.
They need charisma, even Biden had just enough to get by Trump. A Bill Clinton or Obama would have beaten him more handily.
And they prolly need to accept that too many voters won't elect a female president, at least for a while yet.
It may not be a big deal in 4 years if the Republicans can't find another locker room bully with charisma themselves.
But Obama wasn’t running.
It definitely will imo since Republican opponents running for Prez are going to mercilessly reference it every day in the next cycle.
Simple solution - take in more unreported dark money, bribe the powers in charge of social media with it. Done.
There are 1,000 convoluted theories floating around on social media that purport to explain why Donald Trump won the presidential race. But some Democrats and people on Kamala Harris’s campaign have concluded that one very significant reason is a straightforward one: It proved disturbingly difficult to persuade undecided voters that Trump had been a bad president.
https://newrepublic.com/article/188238/trump-won-voter-perception-2024
I honestly think this is indeed a huge part of it. We've even seen it on this forum. Most fascinating to me is that even many Harris voters I've talked to since the election downplay what Trump has done. Maybe it's a coping mechanism, but I'm more inclined to believe they don't know what all he did the first time around. I expect more of the same again this time around - A volume of scandals and other negative things happening during his term where one after another conveniently gets buried. How many people even know about the shit at the department of energy? The VA? The convenient timing of announcements to coincide with stock buying and sell offs? And on and on it goes. Not many I'd guess.
If I was the anti Trump media I'd come up with a very simple clip, every week report on all the shit that has happened. Perhaps make it funny so it goes viral on all social media. But don't make it too long and don't make it too intellectual. The people you ll want to reach wont sit through a monologue by Jon Stewart or Jon Oliver.
https://newrepublic.com/article/188238/trump-won-voter-perception-2024
I honestly think this is indeed a huge part of it. We've even seen it on this forum. Most fascinating to me is that even many Harris voters I've talked to since the election downplay what Trump has done. Maybe it's a coping mechanism, but I'm more inclined to believe they don't know what all he did the first time around. I expect more of the same again this time around - A volume of scandals and other negative things happening during his term where one after another conveniently gets buried. How many people even know about the shit at the department of energy? The VA? The convenient timing of announcements to coincide with stock buying and sell offs? And on and on it goes. Not many I'd guess.
If I was the anti Trump media I'd come up with a very simple clip, every week report on all the shit that has happened. Perhaps make it funny so it goes viral on all social media. But don't make it too long and don't make it too intellectual. The people you ll want to reach wont sit through a monologue by Jon Stewart or Jon Oliver.
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Some of this talk really emphasizes the digital gap. The right has people like Charlie Kirk and Ben Shapiro and while you might not like them as people they are light years more effective for the right than Cenk Ugh and Destiny for the left.
The problem with this article is that the 'disturbing' examples of voters not being persuaded aren't that disturbing.
Don't disagree with that. Instead it focuses on some of the beaten to death examples rather than some of the examples I mentioned and other more egregious abuses of power by not just him - but by the many who also were appointed by him. Id argue several of those in their own right were more damning than the usual talking points.
Don't you live through hurricane conditions almost every year? As long as I can afford heat I'd trade that in for blizzard conditions in a heart beat.
My point was, they can't be totally off the mark if they lost because their candidate wasn't charismatic enough to beat Trump.
Not that I love the Democratic platform, I think Bernie is right. But it would have worked with a candidate as charismatic as Joe Biden of 2020, much less someone actually charismatic.
Though I may be underestimating the effect of Russia propaganda. Their capture of conservative media, and conspiracy media, is genius, imho. Perhaps that's increased in 4 years much more than I realize.
Gen Z men going MAGA is testament to that, and any ancillary con men like the guy with no chin who is always hitting on Greta Thunberg.
It's starting to feel that way. Very strong / tornado producing storms are becoming more common, too.
Aaaaah, but those storms are all controlled by the Democrats and the deep state and solely aimed at Republican states due to cloud seeding and weather manipulation, whereas climate change is just a hoax or a man made theory by the left to push everyone to woke green initiatives like electric cars and bird killing wind turbines.
Humans absolutely do not and have not had the power to change the climate, especially over the last 200 years. Taking all the Earth's natural resources, pumping the skies and atmosphere full of toxic fumes, cutting down forests all over the world, destroying ecosystems, causing untold species to become extinct, over fishing, over farming, polluting land, rivers, lakes and oceans with litter, poisons, toxic waste and plastics to the extent all marine life is effected....... BUT!!!!! Democrats absolutely can control hurricanes and tornados and aim them at Red states to help election results, and the Republicans have no control or knowledge of it all despite having the House and many party members or supporters in high ranking positions and not one of them saying a word about it all......
I DO NOT GIVE REDCAFE PERMISSON TO SHARE MY DATA
HOWARD FROM MISSION VIEJO CLAIFORNIA
Russian propaganda is not why Dems lost this election or any election.
Been taking a breather on the whole thing, but trying to make sense of the analysis now...I don't think anyone knows what happened. All I see is each person's hobby-horse being blamed:
If you're dem but hate wokeness - it was being too left and falling into the 'trans-trap'
If you're dem but like Harris - she could never have won because incumbents everywhere are getting destroyed, in fact she did well relatively.
If you're dem but Gaza is the be all and end all - see we TOLD you! Jill Stein for the win!
If you're dem but don't like the establishment - Bernie would have won, the dems can't have the elites and the working class
If you're dem but like tin foil - it's all a lie!
I'm not sure it's one simple answer to be honest. But the fact that something like 14m fewer voters showed up tells me one thing above all else: Trump isn't viewed as all that dangerous, or incapable of being President.
As I posted initially, in the age of 'f*ck around and find out', those non-voters are about to get the latter. We'll see who was right. I think the 'sane-washing' and the removal of shame from society (at least politics) is fascinating.
One thing I do believe isn't getting enough attention is how successfully Trump/MAGA weaponised election fraud. During election day he was still tweeting about it, setting it all up for any loss being illegitmate. Where are those claims now?
If you're dem but hate wokeness - it was being too left and falling into the 'trans-trap'
If you're dem but like Harris - she could never have won because incumbents everywhere are getting destroyed, in fact she did well relatively.
If you're dem but Gaza is the be all and end all - see we TOLD you! Jill Stein for the win!
If you're dem but don't like the establishment - Bernie would have won, the dems can't have the elites and the working class
If you're dem but like tin foil - it's all a lie!
I'm not sure it's one simple answer to be honest. But the fact that something like 14m fewer voters showed up tells me one thing above all else: Trump isn't viewed as all that dangerous, or incapable of being President.
As I posted initially, in the age of 'f*ck around and find out', those non-voters are about to get the latter. We'll see who was right. I think the 'sane-washing' and the removal of shame from society (at least politics) is fascinating.
One thing I do believe isn't getting enough attention is how successfully Trump/MAGA weaponised election fraud. During election day he was still tweeting about it, setting it all up for any loss being illegitmate. Where are those claims now?