I'm not very left. Perhaps Moses is. And I always picked Raoul as a fairly typical Democratic voter, which is centre right by most countries standards of course.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Political suicide not to, I'd say. Then the GOP could claim high ground: "oh they want us dead to stop us"
That's very good. It's an obvious point to push though - they should hammer it even more.
What are you talking about? Democrats aren't even vaguely communist. Trump boasts about being a fascist if he is reflected. He is proud of it ffs. There is no equivalence.
I think the problem for the Democrats, whether they like it or not, is that people feel like they've watered down what it means to be a Nazi or fascist. The result of that perception is that the accusations of Trump being a fascist doesn't seem to hit as hard.
This was 2012.
This was 2012.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...romney-ally-to-dems-stop-trivializing-nazism/
I think his point is that Dems have agreed to be tougher on immigration even though during Trump's term they criticized it heavily. So why take Democratic framing of Trump as a fascist seriously?
I think it's a somewhat relevant but also incomplete argument because there's more to Trump's rhetoric and wishes than just tough immigration policy. For the Dems to go along with tougher immigration policy doesn't necessarily invalidate the concerns about what Trump wants (in my view anyway).
Harris is showboating about getting support from Dick Cheney. Everything you’ve said here can be said of Dick Cheney(The fecker actual stole a election!).
If fascism isn’t about its economic or political forms and instead just authoritarian vibes then I don’t see the point of calling it fascism.
It’s matters because it gives some impression how seriously the dems are about viewing Trump as a fascist. Suggesting potentially bad polling is why Harris wished 2024 Mussolini a healthy recovery doesn’t speak great of her or how seriously she takes the threat.
Tbh the answer is most people when taking about fascism just meaning really bad right wing thing. Pretty much in the same way every 4th punk song was about calling Reagan a fascist.
It's a meme slowpoke - but hey, you opted for that instead of engaging with the actual point, you know, the one with sentences and words and stuff.
How could they? They were not in the Oval Office when Trump was insulting their daughter.
Haha if you think the Democratic and Republican Party are that fundamentally different I've got news for you.
Fascism isn’t just about being hard on immigration. Trump is a textbook fascist, an authorian who wants a strong state that serves the leader (if the leader is him) with blind loyalty. The word has been watered-down because it’s being used as a broad slur by people who don’t know what it means but Trump fits the bill.
Authoritarianism is a key component of fascism, wouldn't you agree? And also, the original point wasn't whether Trump is the perfect fascist, but whether there is an equivalence between calling Trump fascist, and calling Democrats communist. Which there just isn't, in my opinion.
Are you open to the idea that politicians may not be 100% truthful all of the time, in an effort to further their political goals? Harris and others probably made the response they thought would be most appropriate to win the election. Going out there and saying "Trump is a threat to democracy, so it's a shame that the incel missed" would have been detrimental to actually stopping Trump, even if that's what they thought.
Perhaps the part where they're not being 100% truthful is the part where they call Trump a fascist.
82 American Nobel Prize Winners Endorse Kamala Harris
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/science/kamala-harris-nobel-winners.html
This is what people are talking about by Fascist.
True but authoritarianism is a key component to many political ideology that aren’t fascist. Stalinism was authoritarianism for example but that wasn’t fascism and the Bush Jr years had massive crack downs on democratic norms and stole a election but wasn’t fascism.
What’s to say Harris isn’t lying about saying Trump is a fascist. Maybe she is saying it to scare democrats into voting for her rather than actually viewing Trump as a fascist.
But anyway we will just have to agree to disagree. And Trump is a massive arsehole.
Showboating? hardly.
She may have mentioned it in speeches and interviews because it illustrates the point that even those on the traditional opposite end of the political spectrum know Trump is unfit to be President.
An aspect of fascism is the link between fascism and capitalism. Fascism is a last-ditch effort to preserve the existing capitalist system and class structure. MAGA.
This is nonsense.
If you are referring to post the assassination attempt, then Biden was the presidential candidate running, not Harris.
And it was right for Biden to wish him well. Biden wishes to unite the country, even though in this climate it is impossible. Unline Trump, who wishes to divide, which is a prime trait of a fascist leader.
Yup. Rogan has had a lot of conspiracy theorists and quacks on his show over the years.
But when they come on, they at least have "evidence" that at least sounds somewhat convincing and plausible to backup their claims.
I knew Trump would come across as the moron he is on Rogan.
I mean, I do see your point that Trump isn't a fascist by the textbook definition, however I'd still say he is a lot closer to being one, than Democrats are to being communist. Even someone like John Kelly uses the term to describe him. "Fascist" has maybe taken the meaning of "autocrat" or "authoritarian", and it would be more accurate to use of those to describe Trump. And I wouldn't rule out some on the left deliberately using "fascist" because it is more scary sounding.
And neither was Jeffrey Goldberg. No senior journalist in US corporate media lies more brazenly and often than Jeffrey Goldberg, and has been doing it for ages. This is the same guy who pushed the false Saddam-Al Qaeda alliance to sell the Iraq War, pushed for the invasion of Iraq and made The Atlantic a hub for Russiagate nonsense. He should be totally shunned, but here we are.
Yeah, but the Democrats didn’t publicly state that they wished the assassination attempt was a success. And Trump is not Italian. So who’s to say, really?
Wait, is he saying Hunter was responsible and he kept the Laptop he used by his bed...?
There are actually 14 core characteristics of fascism and Trump exhibits most of them, therefore one could say he is objectively a fascist. That is light years away from Republicans calling Dems commies as a pejorative to politically vilify them in the absence of all facts or evidence.
You get kicked out of Australia if you do that.
I can't believe we even need to address this at this point but:
A) politics are a spectrum of different visions and opinions on an increasing list of topics.
B) you don't need to be Mussolini itself to show fascistic tendencies/nature in your political opinions and actions.
C) since politics are a spectrum, some politics that show fascistic tendencies and some that not can ocasionally agree in some specific topics.
D) one of the most important foundations on democracies is precisely the fact that you don't actively want your political opponent to drop dead, or at the very least, you don't openly declare it.
A) politics are a spectrum of different visions and opinions on an increasing list of topics.
B) you don't need to be Mussolini itself to show fascistic tendencies/nature in your political opinions and actions.
C) since politics are a spectrum, some politics that show fascistic tendencies and some that not can ocasionally agree in some specific topics.
D) one of the most important foundations on democracies is precisely the fact that you don't actively want your political opponent to drop dead, or at the very least, you don't openly declare it.
Trumpism is far closer to fascism than any Democrat is to communism.
How Donald Trump Is Making Big Promises to Big Business
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/26/us/politics/trump-industry-promises.html
Reflects my feelings about abstainers, third party voters, etc.
Are you saying you don't have to stand on a balcony with folded arms and a petulant frown to be considered a fascist ?
Last edited:
Election Officials Face Torrent of Threats as Nov. 5 Looms
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/25/us/politics/election-officials-workers-threats.html
There are two separate issues, whether Trump 'is a fascist' and whether different people and institutions believe he is one (and the depth and conviction of that belief).
To me it seems like the Democrats go back-and-forth between treating Trump as an existential threat to democracy and 'dangerous fascist', and a normal political opponent. Some of that is their choice and some of that is out of their hands.
To me it seems like the Democrats go back-and-forth between treating Trump as an existential threat to democracy and 'dangerous fascist', and a normal political opponent. Some of that is their choice and some of that is out of their hands.
Some quotes from people who think Trump is a fascist but will vote for him anyway.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/ame...-trump-fascist-theyll-vote/story?id=115152532
2/4 are literally brain damaged gen Xers, talk about a surprise.
Reagan really did a number on the US. Much is made of the Boomers, but if GenXers vote for Trump at a remotely close rate as the other age cohorts, he would lose every election in a landslide.
Can't non-Americans understand that the reason Trump is leading is that the alternative simply isn't good enough? The Dems' main pitch is basically, "We're not Trump," and that's not enough. Kamala is seen as a continuation of the Biden administration, which has overseen:
- Lying about the president's cognitive health, accusing those who provide evidence of his decline as right wing conspirators
- Selecting the Democratic nominee through a closed process, bypassing a fair primary
- Choosing an unqualified candidate when better options are available
- Suppressing alternative candidates and limiting their media access to maintain control
- Weaponizing the legal system against political opponents
- Opposing voter ID and proof of citizenship requirements, undermining confidence in election integrity
- Opening borders to unscreened immigrants, dumping them in areas cannot handle the influx, straining communities and infrastructure
- Implementing reckless economic policies and massive spending, ignoring inflation and the deficit which has grown rampant
- Financing in an unpopular war in Ukraine and financing one side in a conflict the international courts have called a plausible genocide
- Defunding the police and changing bail laws, releasing violent criminals, harming communities, and promoting lawlessness
- Continuing liability exemptions for pharma, pushing a 72-shot vaccine schedule without evaluating cumulative effects
the only 2 things in this remotely relevant to the election outcome are the perception of increased crime and migration, and post-covid inflation; the rest is a conservative grievance list as blinkered as any of the stuff you mock in this tread.
None of which are good enough reasons to allow Trump and this far right extremist iteration of the GOP back in power. They are not all true either.
Last edited:
"Personally, he's a fascist. " Well I sure am relieved it's only on a personal level.