2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

gaffs said:
Did she canvas for endorsement? No. Is he on the campaign trail with her? No. Is he in her ads? No.
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I think it's naive to think Dick Cheney just happened to randomly endorse Harris when his daughter is in the campaign trail with her.
gaffs said:
As i said before, they are using his ensorstent to illustrate the fact that even the most diehard Republicans are rejecting Trump.
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It is simply not true that the most diehard Republicans are rejecting Trump, though. If it were true he wouldn't have even odds to win the election.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I'm absolutely not. But actively using his endorsement is a choice that I think can be criticized. Or are we not allowed to criticize her at all?
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Fine to criticize and i would too if they were running ads featuring Dick Cheney or if she had him at his rallies.

But has she? No.

He has been mentioned by her and Walz to illustrate the fact they have a broad coalition including die hards Republicans like Dick Cheney.

But Caftards are using Dick Cheney as a stick to beat her with and making out like he is front and center of the campaign. Or somehow they think she is going to come out and say, "no thanks Dick, i don't want your endorsement". That is not living in reality.

Where were these same people when David Duke was endorsing Trump and he refused to even acknowledge who Duke was, never mind disavow him or the KKK?
 

Arab Americans slightly favor Trump over Harris, says new poll​

Arab Americans are slightly more likely to vote for Donald Trump than Kamala Harris, according to a new poll, in a worrying sign for the Democratic nominee’s chances of carrying the battleground state of Michigan, which is home to a large Arab American population.

The survey, conducted by the Arab News Research and Studies Unit along with YouGov, shows 43% supporting Trump compared with 41% for Harris, and 4% backing the Green Party candidate, Jill Stein.

The figures are broadly in line with a previous poll carried out this month by the Arab American Institute. Together they suggest that Harris’s support in the community has been undermined by the Biden administration’s backing for Israel’s year-long war against Hamas in Gaza.

The latest poll also shows Trump leading Harris by 39% to 33% on the question of which candidate would be most likely resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, while the candidates were tied at 38% apiece on who would be “better for the Middle East in general”.

Support for Trump is particularly striking given that the same poll shows twice as many respondents – 46% to 23% – think anti-Arab racism and hate crimes are likely to increase under a Trump presidency compared with under Harris.

The former president has repeatedly used the term “Palestinian” as an insult against his Democratic opponents, and derided them as insufficiently supportive of Israel.

The findings are also surprising given that Trump’s presidency was characterised by a strong pro-Israel policy tilt. He was responsible for a historic decision to move the US embassy in the country from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, the status of which is hotly disputed by Israelis and Palestinians.

The perception of him as ardently pro-Israel is reflected in the poll, which shows 69% of respondents believe he is the most supportive of the country’s interests, compared with 60% for Harris.

The vice-president – whose husband, Doug Emhoff, is Jewish – has trod a delicate course while attempting to claw back the support of Arab voters forfeited by Biden.

She has repeatedly affirmed Israel’s right to defend itself, while also voicing concern over the escalating casualties and worsening situation in Gaza. She greeted last week’s death of the Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar by saying it offered a chance to end the war.

Trump has claimed that last October’s deadly attack by Hamas would not have happened on his watch. He appealed explicitly to Arab voters on Monday as Harris campaigned in Michigan with Liz Cheney, the former Republican member of Congress whose father, Dick Cheney, played a key role in the invasion of Iraq as George W Bush’s vice-president.

If Harris were elected, Trump wrote on his Truth Social site, “the Middle East will spend the next four decades going up in flames, and your kids will be going off to War, maybe even a Third World War”.

The earlier Arab American Institute survey also showed Harris with 41% support, compared with 42% for Trump and 12% for third-party candidates.

It concluded that while Harris had recovered some support ceded by Biden, she was still far behind the 59% of the Arab vote captured by the US president in his 2020 election win over Trump.

Polls show Harris and Trump in a virtual deadlock in Michigan, which Trump narrowly won in 2016 but lost to Biden four years later.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/22/arab-americans-poll-trump-harris-
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Iker Quesadillas said:
I think it's naive to think Dick Cheney just happened to randomly endorse Harris when his daughter is in the campaign trail with her.

It is simply not true that the most diehard Republicans are rejecting Trump, though. If it were true he wouldn't have even odds to win the election.
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Harris wanted Liz Cheney to campaign with her. That is clear. She may even be up for a cabinet position.

Who knows how the Dick Cheney endorsement happened, but you too would be naive to think that Harris even really wanted it because it comes with as many downsides as up. Most likely he has done it off his own back because he a) hares Trump and b)felt he wanted to support his daughter. Its not that deep.

Did i say "most diehard Republicans" ? No. Read again. That is clearly not the case, but some are. The Cheneys are an illustration of this. Pence and John Bolton not voting for Trump are two further examples.

A whole list of them if .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...e_the_Donald_Trump_2024_presidential_campaign
 
NotThatSoph said:
I didn't call anything fascist in that comment. My impression is that you could benefit from increasing the reading:commenting ratio, you're quite quick on the trigger.
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You said.....

NotThatSoph said:
The Democrats are now running on a platform to the right of this fascism.
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So which of the Dem policies are to the right of fascism?
 
gaffs said:
Fine to criticize and i would too if they were running ads featuring Dick Cheney or if she had him at his rallies.

But has she? No.

He has been mentioned by her and Walz to illustrate the fact they have a broad coalition including die hards Republicans like Dick Cheney.

But Caftards are using Dick Cheney as a stick to beat her with and making out like he is front and center of the campaign. Or somehow they think she is going to come out and say, "no thanks Dick, i don't want your endorsement". That is not living in reality.

Where were these same people when David Duke was endorsing Trump and he refused to even acknowledge who Duke was, never mind disavow him or the KKK?
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I think you are reading way too much into it. I want Harris to win 1000%. This is just one small thing, that I don't think looks good (it might still be good strategy, who knows). I could point to others.

Pointing out Trump's insanity is preaching to the choir on here.
 
Lee565 said:
I can't believe trump is even within a good shout of winning the election, this is the guy who only recently at a rally was rambling on about how impressive the size of another man's penis was to his cult audience.

It goes to show the scary influence the 1% billionaires have on America and the world because without their back, trump would not be this close and he is just their pawn to get what they want in the world, they are the real dark forces in the world controlling things
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Well yeah you said it. He has the backing of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, two men richer than god.
 
gaffs said:
So which of the Dem policies are to the right of fascism?
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Did you really capitalize the T to make it look like a standalone sentence, instead of the end of one, where the complete actual sentence makes it clear what I'm referring to? Here is what was actually said:

The border stuff is what got him called a fascist, and the Democrats are now running on a platform to the right of this fascism.
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Emphasis mine. It's perfectly clear here that I am not the one calling this fascism, but that I am referring to other people describing it as fascist, and anyone even mildly familiar with American border politics the last decade know what I'm referring to with running to the right of it.

You should really be more careful with quoting, or cut that shit out if it was on purpose. I'll also repeat the advice of reading more carefully before posting, especially if you're going for gotchas.
 
Politics can be very zero-sum. You will have group A that believes something, and group B that believes the opposite. The positions, approaches, rhetoric that one adopts can gain some votes but at the expense of other votes. Like the quote from Schumer about losing 1 blue-collar Democrat but gaining 2 more suburban Republicans.

I think sometimes people see Trump as an electoral cheat code. Like he is so repulsive to group A that their votes must be locked in for Dems, who are then free to just do whatever they need to appeal to group B. So instead of losing 1 blue-collar Democrat to gain 2 suburban Republicans, you just get to keep them all. Nobody gets to even complain.

This Cheney thing is a very minor example of that. Nobody is even saying that people shouldn't vote for Harris because of a Cheney endorsement as far as I can see. They simply find any association with this man gross, as they should.
 
Mike Smalling said:
I think you are reading way too much into it. I want Harris to win 1000%. This is just one small thing, that I don't think looks good (it might still be good strategy, who knows). I could point to others.

Pointing out Trump's insanity is preaching to the choir on here.
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Same. I would rather he didn't come out and endorse her. It's an endorsement that is not especially valuable to her and it comes with as many downsides as up, which is why i don't think she sought it.

But now he has endorsed her, it is what it is. She is not making it a big deal of it like others on here seem to be.....

Iker Quesadillas said:
The issue is the endorsement of Dick Cheney.
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Beachryan said:
We're now at the stage where it's one of two things:
1. A comfortable Trump victory
2. A massive polling error

Personally I just have to bury myself in soft, fluffy clouds of the latter.

Imo those blaming Harris just don't understand enough about American politics, and how Trump's popularity has bounced. In just over 100 days she has gone from being completely underwater on favourability to massively ahead of Trump. She certainly isn't a generational change candidate - like Obama (or Sanders would have been) - but she is an intelligent, qualified, 'safe pair of hands' that can manage the most powerful nation on Earth at a very uncertain time. She's also non-white and female - if she is elected that in of itself is hugely significant. If she were the leader of any random European nation no-one would bat an eye.

If Trump wins - and wins like the polls suggest, hugely - no Democratic candidate could have beaten him. That's result of the media ecosystem above all things.

The only positive I can draw from this is that the status quo has to change from the perspective of actual democracy. A Trump victory built off the back of pure disinformation should see some kind of reaction. Of cousre, his actual Presidency coverage will also be part of that - when he inevitably fails to deliver literally any benefit to his voters and tariffs are either blocked by people that understand economics or go through and ruin the economy.

I've posted before that I'm not sure how incumbents win in today's media space. There is no longer a collective memory, or even desire to understand the chain of events that lead to the current moment. You can get elected simply by attacking what is - whether true or not - and there is no push back on how you would realistically change it. It reminds me so much of high school elections: if you run a campaign of stopping homework, no school on Fridays and pizza everyday you will win.
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Her increase in favorability was because she went from mildly anonymous VP to Dem nominee who the entire party was forced to galvanize around virtually overnight, not because everyone suddenly decided she was nice and relatable compared to a few weeks ago. Most Dem nominees are going to poll in the high 40s this close to an election, particularly when their voters are fully aware who the alternative is.
 
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NotThatSoph said:
Did you really capitalize the T to make it look like a standalone sentence, instead of the end of one, where the complete actual sentence makes it clear what I'm referring to? Here is what was actually said:



Emphasis mine. It's perfectly clear here that I am not the one calling this fascism, but that I am referring to other people describing it as fascist, and anyone even mildly familiar with American border politics the last decade know what I'm referring to with running to the right of it.

You should really be more careful with quoting, or cut that shit out if it was on purpose. I'll also repeat the advice of reading more carefully before posting, especially if you're going for gotchas.
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Which of her border policies are to the right of Trumps?

Plus, it was not Trump's border policies alone that made people label him as a fascist. There are a litany of reasons.

6NF40XG.jpg


I think you can also check off "Supremacy of the Military" given he thinks the military is there to serve him. "My Generals" he calls them. And as Kelly said he wanted Generals like Hitlers. "People who were totally loyal to him, that follow orders,"

Plus we know he wishes to control the media. The most disturbing recent example of this is when he was on Fox and Friends last week and said....

"I’m going to see Rupert Murdoch. I’m going to tell him something very simple, because I can’t talk to anybody else. Don’t put on negative commercials for 21 days. Don’t put them and don’t put on — they’re horrible people. They come and lie.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-rupert-murdoch-fox-news_n_671958a8e4b0802a809a191d

This kind of thing goes largely unreported, but just imagine Harris going on a TV network and saying, on air, that she is about to speak to the head of the organization and ask them to stop airing negative ads pre the election?

Then there is the threats of removing licenses from networks who are critical to him...
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/22/media/trump-strip-tv-station-licenses-punish-media/index.html

He is telling you what he wants to do yet you don't want to believe him!
 
The Firestarter said:
Apart from the polar opposites of men vs women , this one stood quite glaring:
White women no college: Trump 62-36%
White women college: Harris 61-38%
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We will see if this is confirmed by the exit polls. But one thing we do already know: we have two America’s and they’re increasingly at odds with each other.

Education and place of life matter a great deal l.
 
gaffs said:
Which of her border policies are to the right of Trumps?
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As I said, you know the answer to this, please stop with the fake questions.
gaffs said:
Plus, it was not Trump's border policies alone that made people label him as a fascist. There are a litany of reasons.
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Never said it was. In fact I said the opposite. Please read.

[...]
gaffs said:
He is telling you what he wants to do yet you don't want to believe him!
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None of this has been about what I think if or believe of Trump. Once again you're so eager to type that you don't read.

Now, about that quote of mine you edited, which ended up looking like I said something I didn't. How did that happen?
 
gaffs said:
Was looking for specifics, which were not listed.

Kamala has never made any comments re Lina Khan on the campaign.
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Exactly. She did nothing to defend her as donors went for her throat: "Khan supporters, alarmed that Harris has yet to rally to the legal star’s side," https://www.wired.com/story/ftc-chair-lina-khans-democrats-donors-harris/
gaffs said:
The border policy is not hers
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Then who's is it then and why is she being interviewed about it? https://www.newsweek.com/anderson-cooper-gives-kamala-harris-bruising-cnn-town-hall-1974105
gaffs said:
Nor is "lethal military shit".
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Am I going mad here?

gaffs said:
And there are plenty more demonic Republicans than Liz Chaney.
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I've not done an audit of the party but I would say that Dick Cheney is as demonic as any republican over the last 30 years.

There was a documentary on radio 4 last night I caught by coincidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0024cxp. One section mentions Dick Cheney's involvement in the collusion of the fossil fuel giant's campaign to conceal their own evidence of global warming. The damage the Bush and Cheney administration did with regards to global warming is probably greater than any group of people before or since. Add to that the fall out from their invasion of Iraq and you have the two most catastrophic debacles in living memory. There is not a republican anywhere with that record.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/10/dickcheney.climatechange
 
gaffs said:
k3yqM3t.jpg



For anyone still doubting Trump and his campaigns fascist credentials, ask yourself why Mike Lindell and his pillow brand happens to round his prices of with an 88 rather than the usual .99. Or why his special offer happens to be $14.88 ?

Rzb8vq3.jpg


They wave it in your face and some of you still don't want to take it seriously!!!
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That seems like a bit of a reach. The grocery store I go to often has events where all the specials prices end in .88. There's plenty to say about Liddell without even reading nazi references in his prices.
 
dumbo said:
Exactly. She did nothing to defend her as donors went for her throat: "Khan supporters, alarmed that Harris has yet to rally to the legal star’s side," https://www.wired.com/story/ftc-chair-lina-khans-democrats-donors-harris/
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Why is Harris not defending Lina Khan even an issue?

We don't know if Harris wishes to keep her in the role or not. I know Khan wishes to break up some of the big tech companies, which no doubt, Harris donors don't want.

We know Trump wont allow big tech to be broken up.

dumbo said:
Then who's is it then and why is she being interviewed about it? https://www.newsweek.com/anderson-cooper-gives-kamala-harris-bruising-cnn-town-hall-1974105
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Nowhere in that interview does she claim the border policies were her's.

I think a lot of people need to go back and take Civics class again. The VP is not the one that sets the policy agenda. Unfortunately though, in a political campaign, she can't say that, so she has to own a lot of the Biden mistakes, without throwing him under the bus.

Prior to her running, the knock on her was that she did nothing. Now she is running, all of the Biden decisions are hers.

As LBJs VP, John Nance Garner said..... "I'll tell you, Lyndon, the Vice Presidency isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit"

Remember that next time you are pinning a President's policies on the VP.

dumbo said:
Am I going mad here?
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I see no issue here. The US wants the strongest and deadliest military to use as a deterrent. Americans like this kind of talk, but talk is all it is.

If she had said she wishes to use that in reckless and irresponsible ways, then i would agree with you.

dumbo said:
I've not done an audit of the party but I would say that Dick Cheney is as demonic as any republican over the last 30 years.

There was a documentary on radio 4 last night I caught by coincidence https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0024cxp. One section mentions Dick Cheney's involvement in the collusion of the fossil fuel giant's campaign to conceal their own evidence of global warming. The damage the Bush and Cheney administration did with regards to global warming is probably greater than any group of people before or since. Add to that the fall out from their invasion of Iraq and you have the two most catastrophic debacles in living memory. There is not a republican anywhere with that record.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/10/dickcheney.climatechange
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Historically, i agree. He is one of the worst. If there was a way for Trump to enrich himself via foreign conflict in the way that Cheney did with Halliburton, then im sure he would go to war with anyone.

On that note, funny how Betsy DeVos is now back sucking upto Trump after she stepped down on Jan 6 and talked about the 25th amendment. DeVos happens to be brothers with Erik Prince, who knows a thing or two about making money from conflict.

But as i have said before, she is not shouting from the rooftops about Dick Cheney's endorsement. Its one that probably came free with Liz's that she could do without.
 
dumbo said:
Far be it for me to back up that particular poster, but Mike does have history with this sort of stuff https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...d-nazi-dog-whistle_n_66ef01d5e4b0859639dabf43
66ef07842300001f00c34370.png


It seems pretty compelling to me.
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That's the same thing really. $15 is half the price from $30, with the .99/.88 to make it seem less. It just seems like a reach to me. Some people have these number things on their mind way too much. (Can't do 18 either: that's AH.)

I'm obviously not interested in defending Liddell, but I hate how the idiots get to take over everyday stuff like specific numbers, and then 'we' let them by hunting for their occurrence. If we don't do that, this shit doesn't get the air time and its impact is much less.
 
VorZakone said:
I think abortion and female voters are going to be decisive for Harris. Feels like the Republicans are underestimating it.
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They will be important to her, just like people obsessed with the rise in prices and border policy under Biden will be important to Trump’s turnout. There’s no way of knowing which of the two sides will turnout more voters. There’s also the inconvenient reality that a lot of people don’t vote on policy at all; instead they vote on emotion, identity, and relatability.
 
gaffs said:
Why is Harris not defending Lina Khan even an issue?

We don't know if Harris wishes to keep her in the role or not. I know Khan wishes to break up some of the big tech companies, which no doubt, Harris donors don't want.

We know Trump wont allow big tech to be broken up.



Nowhere in that interview does she claim the border policies were her's.

I think a lot of people need to go back and take Civics class again. The VP is not the one that sets the policy agenda. Unfortunately though, in a political campaign, she can't say that, so she has to own a lot of the Biden mistakes, without throwing him under the bus.

Prior to her running, the knock on her was that she did nothing. Now she is running, all of the Biden decisions are hers.

As LBJs VP, John Nance Garner said..... "I'll tell you, Lyndon, the Vice Presidency isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit"

Remember that next time you are pinning a President's policies on the VP.



I see no issue here. The US wants the strongest and deadliest military to use as a deterrent. Americans like this kind of talk, but talk is all it is.

If she had said she wishes to use that in reckless and irresponsible ways, then i would agree with you.



Historically, i agree. He is one of the worst. If there was a way for Trump to enrich himself via foreign conflict in the way that Cheney did with Halliburton, then im sure he would go to war with anyone.

On that note, funny how Betsy DeVos is now back sucking upto Trump after she stepped down on Jan 6 and talked about the 25th amendment. DeVos happens to be brothers with Erik Prince, who knows a thing or two about making money from conflict.

But as i have said before, she is not shouting from the rooftops about Dick Cheney's endorsement. Its one that probably came free with Liz's that she could do without.
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But she you have to assume all three things, ccause she's not actually saying any of it. And your assumptions may be wrong, too. Either way, it makes more sense if people vote for what's said than what isn't said but you'd like to be true. Cause I could just as easily assume that the border policy will not substantially change under a Harris government, that Harris will cater to 'traditional' Republican voters, and that she will continue to proudly use the US military as a global lethal force. That would surprise no-one and is actually in line with her campaign.
 
Cheimoon said:
That's the same thing really. $15 is half the price from $30, with the .99/.88 to make it seem less. It just seems like a reach to me. Some people have these number things on their mind way too much. (Can't do 18 either: that's AH.)

I'm obviously not interested in defending Liddell, but I hate how the idiots get to take over everyday stuff like specific numbers, and then 'we' let them by hunting for their occurrence. If we don't do that, this shit doesn't get the air time and its impact is much less.
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Usually I'd err on the more sceptical side too but having witnessed the man's character at the DNC and beyond I just can't see it as being a plausible coincidence. 1488 is so pervasive online and in the memetic circles he operates in, that if it was a mistake then he would have spotted it.
 
Cheimoon said:
That's the same thing really. $15 is half the price from $30, with the .99/.88 to make it seem less. It just seems like a reach to me. Some people have these number things on their mind way too much. (Can't do 18 either: that's AH.)

I'm obviously not interested in defending Liddell, but I hate how the idiots get to take over everyday stuff like specific numbers, and then 'we' let them by hunting for their occurrence. If we don't do that, this shit doesn't get the air time and its impact is much less.
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Half of 30 is 15, but them you drop the 99 to make 88 to make it seem less?


Ok. Even if it is a genuine mistake, has he changed the price after it was pointed out? Nope.

He would rather not upset the buyers of his pillows who do understand the symbolism. Because "There are fine people who buy my pillows, on both sides! "
 
The segment that both recognizes 14.88 as a neo-Nazi dog whistle, and is motivated to buy a pillow based on that specific price must be tiny.
 
dumbo said:
Usually I'd err on the more sceptical side too but having witnessed the man's character at the DNC and beyond I just can't see it as being a plausible coincidence. 1488 is so pervasive online and in the memetic circles he operates in, that if it was a mistake then he would have spotted it.
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If it is intentional, it is probably just Lindell trying to get as many as possible to buy stuff. Pillows as the product of choice for the new america first movement has always been a bit weird. I don’t think it's anything more than a marketing ploy to get a few extra white supremacists to spend money on overpriced pillows they don't need - the vast majority who see the price probably won't make the connection.
 
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