2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

That_Bloke said:
I think that you don't quite understand how harmful on both domestic and international levels that mentally challenged excuse of a human being you elected as a President in 2000 was and how he paved the way to an even more mentally challenged psychopath in 2016.
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I did not elect Bush, as I'm not based in America and if I was I certainly wouldn't be in Florida!

We can go in circles all day long - it's no use. It's not even like I'm defending Bush. The guy was an idiot - I am merely saying that he (and other old school Republicans) would be clearly preferable to the madman who tried to subvert a fair election. And yes, I remember Florida 2000. It's not really comparable.

That's not even going into all the other Trump insanity. You all know about it, I don't need to make a list.
 
For me it's clear that the Bush Presidency was categorically worse for both the world and the US. The changes brought about by that administration in terms of fear of others, immigration, hte patriot act and so forth are vastly worse than anything Trump did domestically, even including the 1m excess covid deaths. It's not even close in terms of foreign policy, though obviously if someone killed thousands of Americans on US soil while Trump was President, we'd probably have entered a nuclear holocaust.

But I believe Bush is a better human being that Donald Trump. I think he was in over his head, isn't particularly bright and was raised to follow the 'orders' of those who had worked with his father. He was a useful idiot for the truly evil people behind him. Whereas Trump is an utterly vile piece of trash masquerading as a human.

Both things can be true.

Anyway, there's an election coming up between Harris and Trump...
 
SirAF said:
Exactly.

With all due respect, if you do not have any knowledge or interest in US domestic policy then perhaps this is not the right thread? Given this is 100% about domestic policy.
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I have some knowledge on US domestic politics, but I can not call myself an expert on it. That said domestic policy is not where people lose their lives in illegal wars.

You are just confirming my point, you are implying with your response that other people lives is worth less.
 
SirAF said:
I did not elect Bush, as I'm not based in America and if I was I certainly wouldn't be in Florida!

We can go in circles all day long - it's no use. It's not even like I'm defending Bush. The guy was an idiot - I am merely saying that he (and other old school Republicans) would be clearly preferable to the madman who tried to subvert a fair election. And yes, I remember Florida 2000. It's not really comparable.

That's not even going into all the other Trump insanity. You all know about it, I don't need to make a list.
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My point's that W is as much a despicable human being as the fat, orange madman. The former being only infinitely worse because the exceptional circumstances at the time enabled his utter idiocy to express itself in its full glory, which the US and the world still feel to this day.

Both are a shit stains and arguably the two worst presidents in US history, there's no choosing between the two.
 
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That_Bloke said:
My point's that W is as a despicable human being, if not worse, as the fat, orange madman. The former being only infinitely worse because the exceptional circumstances at the time enabled his utter idiocy to express itself in its full glory, which the US and the world still feel to this day.

Both are a shit stains and arguably the two worst presidents in US history and there's no choosing between the two.
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That we can agree on. Now, I think this thread should get back on topic.
 
Giggsyking said:
Well, every Iraqi suffered because of that man will thank you for that answer.
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The first term wasn't worse. However, I fear a second Trump term might be much worse than Bush Jr.
Maybe not for Iraqis but definitely for the Western world. It's not good, if the leader of the free world is a half senile, egomaniac autocrat.

So yes I would prefer Bush being the GOP nominee over Trump.
 
B. Munich said:
The first term wasn't worse. However, I fear a second Trump term might be much worse than Bush Jr.
Maybe not for Iraqis but definitely for the Western world. It's not good, if the leader of the free world is a half senile, egomaniac autocrat.

So yes I would prefer Bush being the GOP nominee over Trump.
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I don't think you realize how heartless, sociopathic, and above all racist this line sounds.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
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A point worth noting about these ‘focus group’, so the 6 who said they will vote for Harris from the same panel most likely aren’t ‘undecided’ either.
 
Giggsyking said:
I am not creating a toxic debate, his answer is cold and lack any human compassion with the hundred of thousands of Iraqis who lost their lives and millions refugees affected by that, it is shortsighted view and self-centred that has no regards to other people tragedies.
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The Iraqi war was a disaster and never should have happened. I'm not proud of many things Schröder did, but refusing to join the alliance of the willing was one of his best decisions.

On the other hand the Saddam Hussein regime wasn't known for their humanitarian records either. I'm no expert in Middle Eastern history, so I can't say which one caused more deaths and suffering as well as if the Iraqis today have a better life than under Saddam.

But @SirAF is right this thread is about US politics and the upcoming election and we getting off topic.
 
SirAF said:
No one is "rehabilitating" W.
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Six in 10 Americans, 61%, say they now have a favorable view of the 43rd President of the United States in the latest CNN poll conducted by SSRS, nearly double the 33% who gave him a favorable mark when he left the White House in January 2009. [...] Most of Bush’s climb back to popularity came from Democrats and independents. His favorability mark among Democrats has soared from only 11% in February 2009 to a majority 54% now.

bushgeroge_obamamichelle.jpg
 
Iker Quesadillas said:

George W. Bush’s favorable rating has pulled a complete 180​

Six in 10 Americans, 61%, say they now have a favorable view of the 43rd President of the United States in the latest CNN poll conducted by SSRS, nearly double the 33% who gave him a favorable mark when he left the White House in January 2009. [...] Most of Bush’s climb back to popularity came from Democrats and independents. His favorability mark among Democrats has soared from only 11% in February 2009 to a majority 54% now.

bushgeroge_obamamichelle.jpg
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Just as we agreed to get the thread back on course…

I also said it is natural to look more favorable upon Bush 43 when the extreme version of the GOP/Trump is the alternative he is being compared to. Mitt Romney’s politics is no picnick either for those of us who are not conservative, but he’s looking pretty damn good in 2024.
 
SirAF said:
Just as we agreed to get the thread back on course…

I also said it is natural to look more favorable upon Bush 43 when the extreme version of the GOP/Trump is the alternative he is being compared to. Mitt Romney’s politics is no picnick either for those of us who are not conservative, but he’s looking pretty damn good in 2024.
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Becoming misty eyed over a war criminal who should have his day in The Hague just because Donald Trump is offensive to the senses is still objectively a bad thing.

Trump is scum, W is scum, but only one scum spent $8 trillion dollars bombing brown people, so it’s pretty wild to say you ‘100%’ prefer said person to the one who’s only interested in golfing, wolfing down fast food and lining his pocket.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Becoming misty eyed over a war criminal who should have his day in The Hague just because Donald Trump is offensive to the senses is still objectively a bad thing.

Trump is scum, W is scum, but only one scum spent $8 trillion dollars bombing brown people, so it’s pretty wild to say you ‘100%’ prefer said person to the one who’s only interested in golfing, wolfing down fast food and lining his pocket.
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Look this will be the last post I make on this topic in this thread.

The bolded part is very disingenuous, and is seriously downplaying the threat of Trump. To simply bagatellize Trump as merely «offensive» is a big mistake and very dangerous.
 
One of the reasons Trump was perceived as moderate in 2016 was because he claimed he'd leave Social Security untouched. Bush on the other hand was very clear about partially privatizing it, an effort which ultimately failed. So this is a good example of how 'the GOP has become more extreme' only gets you so far.
 
It's so disappointing that musicians don't seem to be able to do anything about this.
Time and again, Trump uses music made by people who absolutely hate his guts to embellish his message.
All they can do it seems is a clarification after and a cease and desist.

 
SirAF said:
Exactly.

With all due respect, if you do not have any knowledge or interest in US domestic policy then perhaps this is not the right thread? Given this is 100% about domestic policy.
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Who made that rule? We're largely a bunch of non-Americans discussing American politics. US foreign policy is and always has been extremely significant in that context.
 
Dr. Dwayne said:
Harris becoming the Democratic candidate cut RFKs support in half so the logic you mention seems suspect.

What is logical is the notion that a Kennedy will garner more support from Democrats than Republicans. As mentioned, most of those who remained under his tent will be more likely to not vote at all rather than vote for Trump if they are not swayed by Harris.

His exit will be a bigger nothing burger than his candidacy.
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I fecking hope so because a few RWNJs in my FB feed collectively see it as a coup that puts Trump/Vance into the White House.
 
Anyone smart enough to realise that she personally could have been the reason Trump won the first time, and then decide her ego is so massive that she's willing to risk again to...achieve nothing whatsoever...I don't get the kind of person you need to be. So selfish.
 
Beachryan said:
Anyone smart enough to realise that she personally could have been the reason Trump won the first time, and then decide her ego is so massive that she's willing to risk again to...achieve nothing whatsoever...I don't get the kind of person you need to be. So selfish.
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Stein's goal is to help Trump win just as RFK Jr's was. She's a pro-Kremlin puppet.
 
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