It definitely didn't help. She was unlikable for sure, but part of what made her unlikable to many was definitely that she was an assertive woman.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
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It definitely didn't help. She was unlikable for sure, but part of what made her unlikable to many was definitely that she was an assertive woman.
I'd say the issue was she is a Clinton with all the baggage that came with
Arrogant rather than assertive. Her campaign team was so into their own plans that all ground level feedback was ignored.
It was probably an improbable confluence of all factors.
Hilary was a pantomime villain for right wingers ever since the 90s when she made the "stay home and bake cookies" comment, which was then followed up by Bill putting her in charge of universal healthcare. So you had two scenarios that pissed off the right from the beginning - a direct challenge of traditional values by an assertive woman who rejected the idea of being a housewife in lieu of a professional career, and second, a Hilary led attempt to reduce corporate influence and power in healthcare.
This level of resentment was maintained throughout her Senate and SecState careers and into her Presidential campaigns, and was the foundation of everything from the Benghazi investigations to her email server during the 16 campaign. Hillary of course didn't help her own cause by not covering her basis to thwart such attacks.
Be that as it may, w.r.t to "the right", my point was actually about independents and also mostly usual dem voters but not the core electorate that will always go and vote. She just couldn't bring people to vote and yeah it's due to multiple of issue which were not exactly unknown either. However it was "her turn" in '16.
I agree. There was a touch of arrogance about her campaign which led to them glossing over several states during the final weeks.
I called it a couple of days ago.
Those 1-2% of voters he may carry over to Trump could be the difference.
On the flip side, The Dems have another easy target to go at and it puts Trump's judgement further into question.
I see it as a net positive for Trump though.
Day four should be interesting. With Harris speaking, it would be a good time for Trump to counter program with a live RFK endorsement. They're also expecting protestors to try something outside the venue.
What's the type of usual RFK voter ? Are those of libertarian / contrarian ilk?
I would have assumed that too, but I'm pretty sure we've seen some evidence shared in this thread that he was peeling away Harris votes too. I'm not so certain it'll make a difference.
None of that has anything to do with why she lost. She lost because she couldn't get progressives and independents to vote for her.
She couldn't turn out progressives because 1) her role as pro-drug war and pro-prison industrial complex in the 90s, 2) her being the biggest Democrat supporter of the Iraq war, 3) her being seen as another pro-corporate neoliberal.
She couldn't turn out independents because 1) her arrogance and how she felt entitled to being President didn't connect with average midwesterners, 2) she completely both lacked ground game and digital game to build a strong case, 3) her being the biggest Democrat supporter of the Iraq war
Yeah, I'd say so. Joe Rogan type bros that focus on vaccine skepticism as their one and only issue. And then I guess people that haven't paid attention whatsoever and just think it would be good with another Kennedy in the White House.
She was never going to turn out Sanders voters anyway, so we can safely remove that from the debate. Also, she did very well in terms of popular vote numbers, so at the end of the day, her loss was simply down to not campaigning in the rust belt down the stretch, complimented by late campaign shenanigans by way of the Comey letter 10 days before voting day. That was more than enough to suppress her turnout, which is what Trump was aiming to do. If you can win an election with only 62m popular votes, there's a good sign your opponent lacked turnout.
Trump should have offered Kennedy the vice president candidacy while it was still vacant.
Vaccine sceptic, open to conspiracy theories, libertarian leaning. Basically the Rogan crowd.
If Trump had not agreed to debate Biden in late June, he would still be in the race. I'm guessing he was banking on this, so Vance could then debate Harris.
I lost all faith in Clinton when reports came out she suggested to drone strike Julian assange on foreign soil.
It sums up her foreign policy as a whole, incompetent unmitigated disaster class
It sums up her foreign policy as a whole, incompetent unmitigated disaster class
Many say Jill Stein made the difference in 2016. RFK draws far more support than she ever did.
Nikki Haley was the choice to appeal to women and bring home moderate Republicans. But he probably despises her.
She definitely has her own sociopathic streak that makes her hard to root for.
That wasn't a true story. IIRC, it came from a far right website during the 2016 campaign and was shared by Trump.
What made it odd was that she refused to deny it, instead stating she didn't "recall" what was said at the time.
That makes it even more suspicious to me.
Anyway, even disregarding that, her tenure as SecState was abysmal.
It’s not too late. Kennedy is still very vacant.
At least he'll evict all the illegal aliens from groom lake. Tuck er jabs.
The issues with clinton was just too many. I can't recall the last presidential candidate, besides trump, with so much negative press baggage going into an election as her.
The tangled web of financial ties and interests with both major corporations and foreign governments through the Clinton foundation. This really should be be big one, but was just a part of it.
Benghazi, regardless of how justified.
The emails, regardless of how overblown.
The DNC rigging the nomination in her favour.
Even so, she probably would have won if Comey sat on his hands for two weeks before the election.
The tangled web of financial ties and interests with both major corporations and foreign governments through the Clinton foundation. This really should be be big one, but was just a part of it.
Benghazi, regardless of how justified.
The emails, regardless of how overblown.
The DNC rigging the nomination in her favour.
Even so, she probably would have won if Comey sat on his hands for two weeks before the election.
And she still won the popular vote pretty handily and was about 100,000 votes across three states from winning the EC if I remember right. That’s just the nature of the system, I guess.
I wonder if and when a Republican wins the popular vote again. This way it’s trending, it may never happen again.
If came from a website called True Pundit, a known "fake news" website that no longer exists....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Pundit
Trump used to retweet stories from here, as it they were factual. In the same way he now posts AI pics of Taylor Swift supporting him. You don't believe those, do you ?
Her, or any other politician, having to come out and deny these stories, only adds fuel to the fire. That is exactly what Trump wants - to drag them down
Sorry to say this, but more fool you for believing this shit. But it goes to show how powerful the lies are because 8 years later, a fake story still exists in people's minds.
Was her time at Secretary of State really "abysmal" ? What in particular comes to mind?
I dont think we will ever know if Comey made a difference. It didnt help.
More than anything, the polls and her campaign underweighted the support that was out there for Trump.
Plus the appeal of "Feck it, everything sucks for me anyway, so let's chuck in some dynamite and see what happens".
Maybe the best moment of any party conference....
I see the GOP leaning hard into the Swift Boats thing again. They're such low-lives.
You think "I categorically did not say this" is a worse response than, "A lot of things were said, I cannot recall if this was said or not." ?
Regarding the bolded:
The russian reset - aka appeasement towards Russia who was being spearheaded by Medvedev. Absolutely naiviety on her behalf to believe that Medvedev was anything other than Putin's puppet through and through. That appeasement policy led to 2014 and Crimea being taken. This image makes me sick.
She tried to make the US mission to Afghanistan permanent and deploy 40,000 troops there.
Corruption, including using her position as SecState to convince instituional international investors to "aid Haiti" via her husbands foundation.
Disaster that was Libya campaign - culminating in Benghazi.
Her handling of the Arab Spring, or rather the hypocritical and nonsensical decisions to pick and choose who to support based entirely on non-ideological factors. Let's look at Egypt.
Yay Democracy! Wait..they elected the Muslim brotherhood....Nooo. They do not like us. Revolution again! Dictatorships are more legit than democracy when the people we do not like get elected!
Absolute shitshow of foreign policy.
Its an odd hill to die on for them given Trump's own lack of military service; especially when placed into context of the show the Dems are putting on this week. R's should instead be attacking them on policy instead of this, which looks like an increasing act of desparation.
You think "I categorically did not say this" is a worse response than, "A lot of things were said, I cannot recall if this was said or not." ?
Regarding the bolded:
The russian reset - aka appeasement towards Russia who was being spearheaded by Medvedev. Absolutely naiviety on her behalf to believe that Medvedev was anything other than Putin's puppet through and through. That appeasement policy led to 2014 and Crimea being taken. This image makes me sick.
She tried to make the US mission to Afghanistan permanent and deploy 40,000 troops there.
Corruption, including using her position as SecState to convince instituional international investors to "aid Haiti" via her husbands foundation.
Disaster that was Libya campaign - culminating in Benghazi.
Her handling of the Arab Spring, or rather the hypocritical and nonsensical decisions to pick and choose who to support based entirely on non-ideological factors. Let's look at Egypt.
Yay Democracy! Wait..they elected the Muslim brotherhood....Nooo. They do not like us. Revolution again! Dictatorships are more legit than democracy when the people we do not like get elected!
Absolute shitshow of foreign policy.
Except its the president who makes the foreign policy. So nevermind the underlying complexities of some of the items you listed, these are all policies formulated under Obama.
My wife and i have a bet on. I think Beyonce performs. She thinks not.
It's the same f*cker that did it - successfully - to Kerry vs Bush. Despite Kerry actually serving. The GOP base are idiots, they're not bothered by reality.
Agreed. And fortunately it won't work this time since the country is very different today than in 04. Independents generally don't care about whether or not x VP candidate served in Italy or Afghanistan. Especially since Walz seems like such a cool, likeable guy.