FA Premier League

Manchester United 3:1 Leicester City

Old Trafford

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Sat, 31 January 2015 @ 3:00pm GMT
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    ivaldo said:
    We have made the least mistakes leading to goals in the league and only City have completed more passes and had more possession. Again, keeping the ball isn't the problem, its doing something with it.
    Click to expand...

    Yes but we've made the second most mistakes leading to shots on goal, stats mean nothing without context. De Gea is the reason we have a decent defesive record not us keeping posession.
     
    [
    ivaldo said:
    We have made the least mistakes leading to goals in the league and only City have completed more passes and had more possession. Again, keeping the ball isn't the problem, its doing something with it.
    Click to expand...
    The point about us being good at making short passes is fine. However we are far, far too slow. We need quick, slick, short passing. That requires movement off the ball and quick thinking. We have players who can do this, but they are not being utilised properly. We do not need to be making long passes.
     
    ivaldo said:
    We have made the least mistakes leading to goals in the league and only City have completed more passes and had more possession. Again, keeping the ball isn't the problem, its doing something

    Take the Southampton game, they tried pressing us but couldn't get the ball and then reverted to counter attacking.they scored from their only shot on target.
    Click to expand...

    And the sole purpose for that is because we have a phenomenal goalkeeper named David De Gea. Mistakes aren't measured by combining them with goals. A mistake is a mistake, and we make shit loads of them from Jones, Evans to Carrick and Rooney.
     
    ----------------------De Gea----------------


    ---Rafael---Smalling---Rojo--------Blind-


    --------Herrera--Carrick--Fellaini-------


    ---J.Wilson-------Rooney-------Di Maria-


    Best squad we have 3-0
     
    DomesticTadpole said:
    [

    The point about us being good at making short passes is fine. However we are far, far too slow. We need quick, slick, short passing. That requires movement off the ball and quick thinking. We have players who can do this, but they are not being utilised properly. We do not need to be making long passes.
    Click to expand...
    Like in the friendly matches on the US tour?
     
    Cassidy said:
    Yes but we've made the second most mistakes leading to shots on goal, stats mean nothing without context. De Gea is the reason we have a decent defesive record not us keeping posession.
    Click to expand...
    That being said it still doesn't negate from the fact we do keep the ball better than anyone except City, we just don't move it quick enough to create chances from it.
     
    Rezyuz said:
    And the sole purpose for that is because we have a phenomenal goalkeeper named David De Gea. Mistakes aren't measured by combining them with goals. A mistake is a mistake, and we make shit loads of them from Jones, Evans to Carrick and Rooney.
    Click to expand...
    Take that out of the equation then, the other stats suggest we are pretty good at keeping possession.
     
    ivaldo said:
    That being said it still doesn't negate from the fact we do keep the ball better than anyone except City, we just don't move it quick enough to create chances from it.
    Click to expand...

    Sigh again stats mean nothing, if we pass the ball around the defence more it would give us higher possession rate, but does that mean we keep the ball better?
     
    Cassidy said:
    Sigh again stats mean nothing, if we pass the ball around the defence more it would give us higher possession rate, but does that mean we keep the ball better?
    Click to expand...
    Well that's keeping the ball isn't it? The fact is we keep the ball more than anyone with the exception of City, over the course of a season those stats tend to start painting a picture, this isn't a wishy washy stat thats open to interpretation like assists or key passes, this is something that can be clearly and easily defined. To go way back to my original point - if we keep the ball in this manner so readily with one defensive midfielder in the team, what benefit would there be to playing Blind AND Carrick in midfield at the expense of a creative or goal scoring player? At home. Against Leicester.
     
    ivaldo said:
    Well that's keeping the ball isn't it? The fact is we keep the ball more than anyone with the exception of City, over the course of a season those stats tend to start painting a picture, this isn't a wishy washy stat thats open to interpretation like assists or key passes, this is something that can be clearly and easily defined. To go way back to my original point - if we keep the ball in this manner so readily with one defensive midfielder in the team, what benefit would there be to playing Blind AND Carrick in midfield at the expense of a creative or goal scoring player? At home. Against Leicester.
    Click to expand...

    I'll try one more time. We keep the ball at the back mostly between the defenders and the goal keeper mostly. When we attempt to bring the ball forward to an attacking position we tend to give it away mainly due to long balls from the defenders, or the goal keeper eventually being forced to kick long. Bling being in the team in midfield helps this because he is intelligent enough to see this is a problem and readily makes himself available to the defence, and brings the ball out and helps us not only keep posession, but move the ball in to an attacking area of the pitch better, Carrick can help do the same, although he doesn't seem to be able to make himself available as much as Blind.
    Anyway having both in midfield helps to screen a 4 man defence, so instead of having an extra CB which makes 3 which seems to cause positional confusion between them, we'd have 2 CBs and 2 DMs instead of 3 CBs and 1DM. So its not at the expense of a creative of goal scoring player at all, its at the expense of a CB. Which means players like Herrera, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria can attack without worrying too much about having to track back and cover for a leaky defence which they seem to do now.
     
    This match will be my first visit to OT since I was a kid. :drool: I am so excited; I will be getting a tour at OT and all the usual stuff. I am sure it will be fantastic.
     
    I can picture it already:

    LvG scratches his head and thinks hard how he could stop Leicester from scoring...
    Spends couple of days watching videos of Leicester going on with their usual losing streak..
    Thinks and analyzes every Leicester player and their injury list...
    Analyzes their weaknesses where best could Utd score from..
    Analyzes their attacking options and puts in each Utd defender in mind to check how he fares against the Leicester attack...

    And Vola!!! A 3-5-2 with Rooney in midfield and ADM upfront should do the trick!!!
     
    Cassidy said:
    I'll try one more time. We keep the ball at the back mostly between the defenders and the goal keeper mostly. When we attempt to bring the ball forward to an attacking position we tend to give it away mainly due to long balls from the defenders, or the goal keeper eventually being forced to kick long. Bling being in the team in midfield helps this because he is intelligent enough to see this is a problem and readily makes himself available to the defence, and brings the ball out and helps us not only keep posession, but move the ball in to an attacking area of the pitch better, Carrick can help do the same, although he doesn't seem to be able to make himself available as much as Blind.
    Anyway having both in midfield helps to screen a 4 man defence, so instead of having an extra CB which makes 3 which seems to cause positional confusion between them, we'd have 2 CBs and 2 DMs instead of 3 CBs and 1DM. So its not at the expense of a creative of goal scoring player at all, its at the expense of a CB. Which means players like Herrera, Rooney, Mata, Di Maria can attack without worrying too much about having to track back and cover for a leaky defence which they seem to do now.
    Click to expand...
    Who said anything about playing 3 centre backs? Apparently It is possible to play 4 at the back without 2 defensive midfielders. You seem incapable of understanding the point im making but I'll give it another go. We keep the ball better than anyone in the league with the exception of City but we are sorely lacking creativity. That's why players like Jones end up giving the ball away, because we don't have the movement or fluidity in passing to create any chances. If we had that then players like our centre backs wouldn't be the ones trying to force openings, there is a reason why we have such a high pass completion rate and our strikers receive so little of the ball, because we aren't capable of creating the opportunity to get them the ball in the first place. Having someone like Herrera in the team instead of Blind/Carrick would give us another player willing to play the difficult ball, he'll lose it more often but you can guarantee he'll find the feet of players in dangerous positions more often.
     
    ivaldo said:
    Who said anything about playing 3 centre backs? Apparently It is possible to play 4 at the back without 2 defensive midfielders. You seem incapable of understanding the point im making but I'll give it another go. We keep the ball better than anyone in the league with the exception of City but we are sorely lacking creativity. That's why players like Jones end up giving the ball away, because we don't have the movement or fluidity in passing to create any chances. If we had that then players like our centre backs wouldn't be the ones trying to force openings, there is a reason why we have such a high pass completion rate and our strikers receive so little of the ball, because we aren't capable of creating the opportunity to get them the ball in the first place. Having someone like Herrera in the team instead of Blind/Carrick would give us another player willing to play the difficult ball, he'll lose it more often but you can guarantee he'll find the feet of players in dangerous positions more often.
    Click to expand...

    I understand your point very well btw.
    We end up at square one again, being great going forward but suspect defensively ala Leicester, Everton, West Ham etc. Posession wise we got better because of the change in formation (back 3) and by playing risk aversere football (moving risky use of the ball out of the central midfield area Di Maria and Herrera).
    I agree with you in principle, the point I was making about posession, was that going back to what you are talking about will make us not as good at keeping the ball, but it will make us more creative yes, but also more open defensively (I think LVG calls it balance).
    Anyway thats why having the two of Carrick and Blind in midfield would help, since they are both good passers of the ball, but also very good defensivley. This also takes some of the defensive responsibility away from Di Maria, Herrera, Mata etc and lets them go and play with freedom.
    Basically I am saying that is an alternative fix to what LVG is trying to fix by playing a back 3 and not picking risk takers in CM and forcing the team to be risk averse
     
    Im not very optimistic for this one.
    Think we may sneak a 2-1 win but we wont make it easy for ourselves.
    Im sure LVG will play 352 here with Rooney back in midfield while our best midfielder is placed on the bench.
     
    Cassidy said:
    I understand your point very well btw.
    We end up at square one again, being great going forward but suspect defensively ala Leicester, Everton, West Ham etc. Posession wise we got better because of the change in formation (back 3) and by playing risk aversere football (moving risky use of the ball out of the central midfield area Di Maria and Herrera).
    I agree with you in principle, the point I was making about posession, was that going back to what you are talking about will make us not as good at keeping the ball, but it will make us more creative yes, but also more open defensively (I think LVG calls it balance).
    Anyway thats why having the two of Carrick and Blind in midfield would help, since they are both good passers of the ball, but also very good defensivley. This also takes some of the defensive responsibility away from Di Maria, Herrera, Mata etc and lets them go and play with freedom.
    Basically I am saying that is an alternative fix to what LVG is trying to fix by playing a back 3 and not picking risk takers in CM and forcing the team to be risk averse
    Click to expand...
    I think what we agree on is that we need to be doing more with the ball, I understand your point about having the two of them to give a better connection between our back line and attacking players, and I would agree with you in more difficult games too, but being at home against Leicester I feel we can afford to play a little more aggressively and that we shouldn't require the additional man to link up play for us.
     
    ivaldo said:
    I think what we agree on is that we need to be doing more with the ball, I understand your point about having the two of them to give a better connection between our back line and attacking players, and I would agree with you in more difficult games too, but being at home against Leicester I feel we can afford to play a little more aggressively and that we shouldn't require the additional man to link up play for us.
    Click to expand...

    Yes it is Leicester but we should play how we mean to carry on. IMO we should drop one of the Strikers for the extra midfielder. Chelsea more or less play the same system now no matter what, however when they need to be a bit more defensive/physical they put Mikel in and move Fab forward. All this choping and changing just isn't helping anyone.
     
    Assuming that Rafael has fully recovered from his cheek and given he and shaw have been training for two weeks, then, other than Young, do we not have a fully fit squad to choose from? Certainly the players to play 4 at the back. If so, it could be a good indication to how he judges our defence. No back 4 using the FB's we have them clearly he doesn't rate them. Will be interesting.
     
    RedDevil@84 said:
    LvG scratches his head and thinks hard how he could stop Leicester from scoring...
    Spends couple of days watching videos of Leicester going on with their usual losing streak..
    Thinks and analyzes every Leicester player and their injury list...
    Analyzes their weaknesses where best could Utd score from..
    Analyzes their attacking options and puts in each Utd defender in mind to check how he fares against the Leicester attack...

    And Vola!!! A 3-5-2 with Rooney in midfield and ADM upfront should do the trick!!!
    Click to expand...

    LOL. Yes...totally agree.
    This is exactly what will likely happen. I think Giggs does the analysis of the rival team, though.

    I think that ADM will be played up front for a while, now. LVG will give him time to ADM to adapt as a striker. If after x games ADM still cant play well, he will be moved back into midfield.
     
    ivaldo said:
    Take that out of the equation then, the other stats suggest we are pretty good at keeping possession.
    Click to expand...

    You can't simply take one major point out of the equation just to make a point. DDG isn't in the spotlight because he only saves 1 shot per match.
     
    Rezyuz said:
    You can't simply take one major point out of the equation just to make a point. DDG isn't in the spotlight because he only saves 1 shot per match.
    Click to expand...
    It is when its not really that relevant, I thought I would just chuck it in. we are talking about possession for which the best stat to measure is? possession. Surely more prominent in a conversation about possession than the amount of saves DDG has to make is it not? Hence why you decided to focus on that as opposed to pass and possession points I made.
     
    I would have thought the most important stats is how many shots on target and how many goals we are scoring. The answer to both is, not very many.
     
    Longlivekeano said:
    ----------------------De Gea----------------


    ---Rafael---Smalling---Rojo--------Blind-


    --------Herrera--Carrick--Fellaini-------


    ---J.Wilson-------Rooney-------Di Maria-


    Best squad we have 3-0
    Click to expand...

    Januzaj for Wilson there, although Mata also should get a spot somewhere too.
     
    Taxx said:
    This match will be my first visit to OT since I was a kid. :drool: I am so excited; I will be getting a tour at OT and all the usual stuff. I am sure it will be fantastic.
    Click to expand...

    Not to sound like a killjoy, but I hope for your sake you have a great experience,because from what I've heard from match-goers the only thing stopping them leaving the stadium early is the fact that they travelled so far and spent so much. Hopefully your a lucky charm ;)

    soapythecat said:
    Assuming that Rafael has fully recovered from his cheek and given he and shaw have been training for two weeks, then, other than Young, do we not have a fully fit squad to choose from? Certainly the players to play 4 at the back. If so, it could be a good indication to how he judges our defence. No back 4 using the FB's we have them clearly he doesn't rate them. Will be interesting.
    Click to expand...

    What makes you assume Rafael was previously injured?
    Most professional footballers play the following week or within it after cheekbone surgery. John Terry recovered within 3/4 days Demba Ba and Torres played the next week, all three wore masks for 4-8 weeks.

    I suspect LVG just dislikes using Rafael and prefers Valencia as he is stronger, faster, less prone to injuries and looking at it objectively probably a better full back aswell. I remember before Rafael broke his face, LVG was saying Rafa has been fit since the Liverpool game, strange that isn't it, considering we all thought he was injured and he simply was not.

    Anyways I don't we'll see a back four often unless Rojo,Blind,Valencia,Young are all injured at the same time. I say this because the defenders LVG did sign this summer we signed/retained in order to construct the back 5, Rojo can play 3 roles in the back 5, Blind can play 4 roles in a 352 as CB,LCB,LWB and as centre midfielder (ignore the fifa abbreviations and get the point), Young can play wing back and winger, thats 4 roles, Valencia can play 3 roles as ful back,wing back and winger.

    I hope LVG can prove my assumptions wrong.
     
    Perhaps I'm being a drama queen (or perhaps just a drama prince), but it seems to me that the importance of this particular match cannot be overestimated.

    If we end up without a full three points, regardless of how ugly or beautiful the performance itself is, we can all but kiss our CL aspirations goodbye.

    Southampton are for real. We know Arsenal will land one of the top four spots. Tottenham are on our backs as well. While I'm prepared to dismiss West Ham I cannot dismiss a late challenge from Liverpool

    We're in the fight of our lives, amigos. If we drop points this weekend we're in serious trouble. If we fail to finish in the top four there's little chance we're going to attract the Strootmans and Hummels of the world this summer, regardless of how much cash we wave in front of them. Louis himself may get the sack, perhaps rightly so.

    The Leicester Citys of this league are the ones we need to destroy, although a grim 1-0 will always suffice. Failure to win this weekend could be catastrophic to our long term aspirations. And it's not just the numerical three points that's the problem, as there will be 15 more matches to be played -- it's the psychological impact of dropping points again to the league's bottom feeder.

    We must win this game, regardless of how dire Louis's tactics may be.
     
    Papii Grande said:
    Not to sound like a killjoy, but I hope for your sake you have a great experience,because from what I've heard from match-goers the only thing stopping them leaving the stadium early is the fact that they travelled so far and spent so much. Hopefully your a lucky charm ;)
    Click to expand...
    Not at all, I'm obviously blue. Why is it that they are not having a good experience? OT can sometimes be quiet, which is a bit of a bummer, I guess, but is there any other reasons than that?
     
    Taxx said:
    Not at all, I'm obviously blue. Why is it that they are not having a good experience? OT can sometimes be quiet, which is a bit of a bummer, I guess, but is there any other reasons than that?
    Click to expand...

    It's mainly the football :wenger: The atmosphere is good, alot of moaners drown out the silent periods if the atmosphere does pipe down, but definitely the football, United used to play freely now it's a bore and given the recent results, most of my travelling mates say just ignore the game, sing a song, have a good day, get drunk, enjoy the day and forget about the result and performances.
     
    what I want, but won't happen

    Dave
    Valencia - Smalling - Rojo - Shaw
    Carrick - Herrera
    Di Maria - Mata - Januzaj
    Rooney​
     
    Oh, apparently I can post here now. This is nice! I hope we show some passion and really come out fired up.
     
    scout-gw5r-1.jpg

    ​
    I'd stick this photo on every locker in the changing room in case anyone needed motivation.

    Just look at the state of that.
     
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Post-match discussion

Man of the Match

Daley Blind image Daley Blind 86% of 742 votes

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Player Ratings

6.3 Total Average Rating

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Score Predictions

523,39,42
  • Man Utd win
  • Leicester win
  • Draw

Detailed Results

  • 20% Man Utd 3:0 Leicester
  • 19% Man Utd 2:0 Leicester
  • 11% Man Utd 3:1 Leicester
  • 9% Man Utd 2:1 Leicester
  • 8% Man Utd 5:0 Leicester
  • 7% Man Utd 1:0 Leicester
  • 7% Man Utd 4:0 Leicester
  • 3% Man Utd 0:0 Leicester
  • 3% Man Utd 4:1 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 1:1 Leicester
  • 2% Man Utd 5:3 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 1:2 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 0:5 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 3:5 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 0:1 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 0:2 Leicester
  • 1% Man Utd 2:2 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 4:2 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 3:2 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 5:1 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 2:4 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 5:5 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 1:3 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 4:5 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 1:5 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 0:3 Leicester
  • 0% Man Utd 5:2 Leicester
Compiled from 604 predictions.
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Match Stats

  1. Man Utd
  2. Leicester
Possession
71% 29%
Shots
12 4
Shots on Target
5 1
Corners
4 3
Fouls
8 12

Referee

Martin Atkinson

Man Utd Lineup

Substitutes

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