Christ almighty. Carroll wasn't bought for his technical ability, only for his goalscoring.Downing to Liverpool?
- Thread starter Drifter
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Christ almighty. Carroll wasn't bought for his technical ability, only for his goalscoring.That's just obviously bollocks though Boring, and you know it. As a matter of basic logic, if he goes on to become the new Pele it will have been a steal.
Anyway, I think the jury's out on Carroll more than you gimps are admitting. I doubt he'll justify that fee, but last season he did look worryingly powerful as well as up for it and comfortable with the expectations.
I reckon he'll score quite a lot for them but won't cut it in the CL if they get back there.
"If Carroll scores 25 goals for the next 5 seasons, £35 million won't be too overpriced."
You come up with that "point" yourself, Einstein?
Well his career stats are 36 goals in 110 games so I'd suggest he'll need to improve that significantly to justify a £35 million fee.
Well, he obviously won't be the new Pele.
Carroll is by no means a bad footballer. He just isn't one of the more talented footballers in the world, and never will be. Which his fee suggest he is.
I'll try this again, more slowly.
Hernandez is now pretty much a 1 in 2.5 striker. How much is he worth? It's obviously more than what you paid for him, but I'm genuinely interested to know what your valuation of players is. Because in my view, if(and it's not that big an if) Carroll scores 25 goals a season for the duration of his contract, £35m is a price worth paying.
Yes, because that's a fair way of judging him at this point.
Right. But that's a different argument entirely.
It's a pretty big if
Carroll (Newcastle) - 18 PL Games - 11 Goals
Sturridge (Bolton) - 11 PL Games - 8 Goals
Welbeck (Sunderland) 21 PL Games - 6 Goals
The other two score goals too. They also happen to be better footballers.
@alastair, whilst I get your point. Can you genuinely see enough potential in Carroll to justify him being the second most expensive British player of all time? Are you sure its just you not trying to play devil's advocate? Also its quite surprising to see a few people saying that future performance levels don't justify the fee payed for a player at the time of pruchase because its those people who'd have a go at posters on here for questioning paying relatively big fees for young players that we've signed. The argument used often is 'we're paying for potential' and that the transfer fee is worth it if the player performs in the long run. Isn't that the exact same argument that alastair's using right now? (even if its slightly extreme in his case)
Hernandez value is probably doubled, to about £15m, maybe £20m at a push.
Which is basically what Carroll should have cost.
"He was signed for his goals."
Really, here is his record.
"Well, you can't judge him on that."
You are getting dumber by the post. It's really something.
The 8th most expensive player of all time...
I merely suspect that whilst Carroll appears unbelievably expensive right now, give it a few years and he will be one of a crowd of players for whom that sort of figure has been paid, and he will be a leading striker in the league. Every time I've seen him this season, he's been one of the best players on the pitch, and he stepped up for England too. I think most top clubs would be glad to have him.
His goals to games ratio is almost 1:3. Not bad for a player who's played most of his career outside of the top flight. I can see it, Al, he was bought for his goalscoring ability.
Considering that he is yet to manage it once, I agree.
See this is bizarre to me. I'm not even a United fan, but Hernandez in my eyes is worth £30m + now. I don't see United selling him for any less than that, anyway. £15m is insanely low.
"He was signed for his goals."
Really, here is his record.
"Well, you can't judge him on that."
Ouch
More pressing question
Is Alastair a Scouse?
Is Alastair a Scouse?
"He was signed for his goals."
Really, here is his record.
"Well, you can't judge him on that."
You are getting dumber by the post. It's really something.
Let's work out how many of those appearances were starts - with young players, often they weren't.
Expecting a 1 in 2 ratio of an 18 year old. Look at his PL scoring record, because that's the league in which he'll be playing next season.
More pressing question is can a United fan make a point without a tinge of bitterness. Seems not to me. I might go back to an old Carroll thread and see what people said about him before he joined Liverpool, just to see if it proves my point or not.
Well quite. That you judge a deal for a footballer on how it turns out is so obvious that I can't really believe it needs stating. Of course there can be mitigating circumstances like injury where you have to judge the deal according to how you think he would have performed if he hadn't been injured, but in general what looked like an overpayment can of course be vindicated in the light of future performances.
Judging by pete and Boring's responses, I think people are just using it as a hyperbolic way of saying, "I don't think he'll ever be that good".
That's because United isn't interested in selling him.
I think after we played Newcastle on the opening day, a few people were commenting that he seemed a handy player who caused us a few problems. That doesn't make him worth £35 million though!..On his day Heskey can be a handful!..Carroll is a battering ram with some heading ability. That's about it.
And that's because he's so good.
Hernandez is worth at least £25m, probably more.
They bet:
Even money - Carroll is the new Tony Hateley and is shipped out to Stoke for £15M after a season
3/1 - he hangs around for 2-3 seasons until they get fed up of him being too rubbish a player to link with Suarez and Sterling.
4/1 - he does OK in a Crouch-like off the bench role
20/1 - he's the new Tommy Lawton and gets 25 goals a season terrorising defences wherever he goes as Liverpool ascend to their former heights and get nos 19, 20 and 21.
Even money - Carroll is the new Tony Hateley and is shipped out to Stoke for £15M after a season
3/1 - he hangs around for 2-3 seasons until they get fed up of him being too rubbish a player to link with Suarez and Sterling.
4/1 - he does OK in a Crouch-like off the bench role
20/1 - he's the new Tommy Lawton and gets 25 goals a season terrorising defences wherever he goes as Liverpool ascend to their former heights and get nos 19, 20 and 21.
You pay for potential, that is obvious. Like we did with Rooney and Rio.
Interesting. I just tagged on the Chief's post on the end because I thought it was quite relevant to this thread.
Tony Hately...funnily enough I was thinking the same thing.
Have a look mate.
Everybody apart from you thought he was rubbish long before he signed for Liverpool.
Right - so because United aren't willing to sell him(understandably) you can't give an estimated value for him? You're mental.
Yes and no. We're not interested in selling because we have no need and because he fits our purposes.
Not worth £20m+. Only the best players in the world are, IMO. He is not.
But that's just such rubbish. Have you watched football since 2004 when £20m was a lot of money? It's what a decent/good player goes for these days.
Four posts...Two of which describe him as having a 'decent touch' and being a 'decent player'. One also references the fact that he seems to have problems keeping his head in the right place. And those are the best you can find to back your argument up.
Wow, sounds like a £35 million player to me.
Eh, I just did
£15-£20m
I thought you were joking.
Imagine how simple life would be if you didn't spend the whole time pretending to be so stupid.
I don't see many of them saying, "He's going to be one of the greatest players in the world, break the bank for him".
There are plenty of players who we think look good.
I bet if you ask any of them if he's worth £35m then they'd all say no.
I understand your point though, Liverpool have paid for potential he and could turn out to be an extremely good player. I, along with everyone else seems to doubt that he'll ever be that though, that's the point. He's a handful aerially and seems to have an eye for goal but I doubt if he'll ever be a truly top quality striker.
It isn't. £20m transfers are far and few between.