Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

[Redstain]

I disagree. Because it misses a crucial point, team and structure are shit and we have been like that for almost a decade now

I find this to be exaggerated, there is overall negligence and mismanagement from the Glazers that goes without saying but United have won multiple honours in that time frame and have numerous finishes in European places.

If Amorim came in and exceeded expectations the players wouldn't be praised, he the manager would receive the accolades and commendation.

The manager from a competitive standpoint is now in a position where 80% of the leagues coaches are as and even more competent than him. It's vastly different to his situation at Sporting.

In the summer the overwhelming consensus in the forum was that there wasn't any outstanding manager to replace Erik with. My question is what's changed? United have taken a chance on Amorim, the risk is he's unproven. It doesn't look to be paying off.

 

[Oranges038]

Although I would not include Dorgu in this theory I believe we will focus more on snapping up very young players purely with a view to selling them on at a profit later

That's nonsense.

The plan for the club would need to be to stay in the shitter for this to happen.

Constantly buying 18/19 year olds in the hope that they will come good enough to sell in 3 or 4 years isn't a viable option.

They need to target players in that 20-24 age bracket that are already good enough, so they can build a squad that will grow and mature together. You need 3 tiers to your sqaud,

Tier 1. Older guys to guide the youngsters
Tier 2. Majority of players coming to their peak
Tier 3. Younger players who will grow into tier 2.

Utd currently have too many in 1 & 3 and very little in 2.

You either buy players ready for 2, this will cost a hell of a lot of money.

Or you bring them in and develop them, with the expectation that they will eventually stay and become tier 1 and tier 2 players. This takes time, to do. In that time the club, the recruitment and coaching setup has to be ready and willing to be patient to help these players reach their maturity and peak.

Utd becoming a moneyball club, can't and should not be allowed to happen.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Pep has never ever taken over a team in the bottom half of a league.

Any manager that came or comes into this club is going to need much better quality players. Amorim is there because he was rated as the best young coach in a Europe and is the best coach we can attract. He’s a manager/coach, not a miracle worker. Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.

Pep has only managed sure things. Hes only ever taken over teams/squads pretty much nailed on for top four and not far of challanging for titles and champions league, if not ready.

Hes unproven at a club that’s been struggling for awhile. United tried to make him manager before city, he was cute enough to see the clown show setup and steer well clear.

United’s main issue hasn’t been managers , I can’t say I’m surprised that many fans still don’t get it.

 

[Marwood]

Amorim is not Pep. He has no body of work to rely upon to get such a backing. He has to illustrate progress, even minimal. His current coaching set up can't get players to string 5 passes together. His team concede from nearly every set pieces. Almost every attack from the opposition leads to a goal. They can't seem to control games.

No matter how people dress it up, he will never and should never get 15 players to revolutionise the team. The best manager find ways to improve players and he hasn't.

Deep down, Amorim knows he is on his last legs. If you don't win games, you don't get more chances. Simples

Not sure that's true, generally I think ball retention has improved under him except for a handful of game.

But there is no set up that prevents players from receiving and passing a ball well. The only thing to stop that is the players ability.

 

[giggs-beckham]

Yeah he talks like under ETH or Ole we were good at passing. Pretty sure we've had a thread complaining about it for at least 5 years now.

Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected

 

[macheda14]

Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected

To get people crisper at passing involves passing drills. We likely aren’t doing those as much seeing as we have limited training days and they will be split between understanding the system vs preparing for the next game tactically.

 

[Adz_99]

What I find really frustrating is I don't think we're as far off as results would suggest. Defensively we're pretty good. Midfield is alright, needs a signing but I don't think it's a complete disaster.

A couple of good attackers and I think we're back in the mix. Not for league titles but top 4 or 5.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected

He's barely had any time and he's dealing with the worst squad we've had in a decade. He has shown signs of improvement even if they haven't been consistent enough yet.

 

[giggs-beckham]

To get people crisper at passing involves passing drills. We likely aren’t doing those as much seeing as we have limited training days and they will be split between understanding the system vs preparing for the next game tactically.

I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.

 

[giggs-beckham]

He's barely had any time and he's dealing with the worst squad we've had in a decade. He has shown signs of improvement even if they haven't been consistent enough yet.

The technical level is so low, hope he doesn't just go for physicality in player recruitment profile

 

[Desert Eagle]

The technical level is so low, hope he doesn't just go for physicality in player recruitment profile

Agreed. It's really such a failure of recruitment and planning from the parasites. We need 3-4 good quality players to add to our midfield and attacking options.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

This is just objectively nonsense.

'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.

 

[wolvored]

The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.

 

[stevoc]

The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.

How so?

 

[ryansgirl]

Seeing that short video of the inability to make productive passes and keep the ball shows how dire the team can be. Knocking the ball around and keeping it until an opening should be basic for a Manchester United team especially given all the cash splashed for years now.
The silver lining here is the draw in the Europa league - I honestly thought United was going to be beaten 0-1. I still think something can be pulled out of the hat for the return game and it`s going to be great for morale if the result is 2-0 United`s way.

 

[FortunaUtd]

Yes, Amorim does need to improve the team as it is, and start winning games, or he will be sacked.
He also does not deserve, nor will he get, 15 new players or anything like that.

He does deserve a couple of quality attackers and a preseason though, doesn't he?

 

[ryansgirl]

The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.

Gary Lineker made the point recently that the Manchester United problem goes back to the Ferguson era - there seems to have been no real plans for life post Sir Alex and the structure to tide United through the uncertainty his retirement would bring just wasn`t there. `Player power problems` exist at other clubs - it`s just that we were used to seeing United keep things in-house for the most, had a strong manager in Sir Alex, were dealing with a different demographic of player who didn`t have social media to run to all the time and were lucky to have the stability of the Alex Ferguson era.

David Beckham was got rid due to his attitude - he had to be separated from Sir Alex at one point in the dressing room, became an international icon for more than football and wasn`t prepared to sit quietly and listen to the manager`s venting nor his advice about stretching himself too thin travelling everywhere to promote his brand but it seems to have been the activity of his PR with his blessing that caused the significant part of the rift. Not sure if he would have taken to twitter and instagram if they`d been a factor back then to snipe at Sir Alex and the club when the relationship soured.

 

[ryansgirl]

I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.

Yes, it`s a fundamental in order to play at the top level. Paul Scholes could certainly teach the squad more than a few things about this as well as Eric Cantona.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

What I find really frustrating is I don't think we're as far off as results would suggest. Defensively we're pretty good. Midfield is alright, needs a signing but I don't think it's a complete disaster.

A couple of good attackers and I think we're back in the mix. Not for league titles but top 4 or 5.

We are, especially if the plan is to persist with Amorim-ball (the formation isn't the so much the problem as the profiles are). The underlying metrics suggest that there's a lot to be desired in the way we defend. Midfield is an utter disaster, and if the big heads at the club don't realize that, we'll be in big trouble in the near future. More experience and ability up front is needed, of course, but if we don't supplement the forwards with players who are comfortable in the half-spaces, we'll be throwing money in a bottomless pit again.

 

[pcaming]

I disagree. Because it misses a crucial point, team and structure are shit and we have been like that for almost a decade now

Even if it were the case that the team and management are 100% to blame and Amorim is innocent, it would still indicate that he is the wrong choice for right now. The idea that we can just lounge around the bottom half of the league for a few years while he finally strips and rebuilds the team is folly. We cannot and should not allow that.

I hated ETH but he did miles better with a ravaged squad last season.

How some of you can watch us lose week in week out without showing the slightest glimmer of hope and then tell yourselves that this manager is the one is mental. The only reason we’re not in the relegation battle seriously, is because of the 2 managers that we started the season with.

 

[stepic]

'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.

It’s not that difficult.

Is a strike force of Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge and Coutinho a title challenging attack? No

Is it better than Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho? Significantly

You’re just not getting how bad our forward line is.

 

[Shark]

Even if it were the case that the team and management are 100% to blame and Amorim is innocent, it would still indicate that he is the wrong choice for right now. The idea that we can just lounge around the bottom half of the league for a few years while he finally strips and rebuilds the team is folly. We cannot and should not allow that.

I hated ETH but he did miles better with a ravaged squad last season.

How some of you can watch us lose week in week out without showing the slightest glimmer of hope and then tell yourselves that this manager is the one is mental. The only reason we’re not in the relegation battle seriously, is because of the 2 managers that we started the season with.

"Get him five new signings in the summer and we'll be firing next season" is based on pure hope, just as it was with ETH after he won the FA Cup. We're living on pure hopefulness, not actual evidence which is incredibly impulsive.

 

[hellhunter]

Not only stinking the place out, also alienating our most promising talents. In a few years, we'll look back to this period in utter dread

 

[stepic]

"Get him five new signings in the summer and we'll be firing next season" is based on pure hope, just as it was with ETH after he won the FA Cup. We're living on pure hopefulness, not actual evidence which is incredibly impulsive.

There’s an aspect of hope to anything though.

Getting rid of him and bringing in a new manager would also be based on hope.

Signing any player there’s a degree of hope as not every player adjusts to the league or the pressure of playing for United

We have evidence his system works in Portugal. That is at least some evidence to justify backing him.

 

[Shark]

There’s an aspect of hope to anything though.

Getting rid of him and bringing in a new manager would also be based on hope.

Signing any player there’s a degree of hope as not every player adjusts to the league or the pressure of playing for United

We have evidence his system works in Portugal. That is at least some evidence to justify backing him.

That's true, but do you understand that many fans would be much more hopeful if he was actually giving them something to hold on to? The football is negative, the results are negative, the press conferences are negative, the one signing he's brought in hasn't pulled up any trees yet, and not a single player has improved under his coaching. He needs to start producing something so fans can say "look at what he's doing with this sorry lot, with 5 new signings he'll surely have us on the right track" but he's giving us nothing.

 

[Denis' cuff]

I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.

I was instinctively able to do that and so were my mates as kids and we were nowhere near professional


If you are not doing that, you’re not trying or not a footballer

 

[wolvored]

How so?

Player power where there are leaks to the press. Where the players dont put the effort in, wont adapt, yet seem to be able to at other teams. Willing to take a pay cut to play elsewhere, but try and hold Utd to ransom. Unfit all season, but as soon as the national team are in a final, miraculously are able to play, then are unfit again, for months on end. Hows that for a start?

 

[wolvored]

Gary Lineker made the point recently that the Manchester United problem goes back to the Ferguson era - there seems to have been no real plans for life post Sir Alex and the structure to tide United through the uncertainty his retirement would bring just wasn`t there. `Player power problems` exist at other clubs - it`s just that we were used to seeing United keep things in-house for the most, had a strong manager in Sir Alex, were dealing with a different demographic of player who didn`t have social media to run to all the time and were lucky to have the stability of the Alex Ferguson era.

David Beckham was got rid due to his attitude - he had to be separated from Sir Alex at one point in the dressing room, became an international icon for more than football and wasn`t prepared to sit quietly and listen to the manager`s venting nor his advice about stretching himself too thin travelling everywhere to promote his brand but it seems to have been the activity of his PR with his blessing that caused the significant part of the rift. Not sure if he would have taken to twitter and instagram if they`d been a factor back then to snipe at Sir Alex and the club when the relationship soured.

Beckham was a WC or as near as damnit, at Utd though. He didnt let his standards drop at all, while at Utd.
I know there are problems at other clubs with individual players, but nowhere near as at Utd, where it seems there are more than one. Nor does it get reported in the media every other day.
The toxicity affects new players signed. Has any player we have signed gotten better over the seasons? Even our most influential player, Bruno has dropped significantly since he came in.

 

[Hammondo]

Yes the FA cup was absolutely basic basic thing to achieve.

Well it was probably the easiest run in fa cup history.

 

[Hammondo]

Not only stinking the place out, also alienating our most promising talents. In a few years, we'll look back to this period in utter dread

Outside of amad and yoro we don't really have any promising talents that have played much, and there seems to be no problems with them.

 

[macheda14]

'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.

What? Klopp did have a formidable strike force. One he put together because the quality of his squad when he arrived was awful. Arteta and Klopp both shifted on a lot of players.

 

[wolvored]

Yes, Amorim does need to improve the team as it is, and start winning games, or he will be sacked.
He also does not deserve, nor will he get, 15 new players or anything like that.

He does deserve a couple of quality attackers and a preseason though, doesn't he?

We should be going all out for a quality attacker, as a novice and a teenager doesnt cut it. I would even try and get another decent striker and let Hojlund go. Obi can be the new novice striker.
The pre season was what Amorim has cried out what was lacking, so he should at least be given that. Whats the alternative? Start with another manager that plays a different system again and confuse these uncompromising players that will be left, even more?

 

[Shark]

What? Klopp did have a formidable strike force. One he put together because the quality of his squad when he arrived was awful. Arteta and Klopp both shifted on a lot of players.

Think he's referring to when Klopp first arrived at Liverpool. Could be wrong though.

 

[Hammondo]

We should be going all out for a quality attacker, as a novice and a teenager doesnt cut it. I would even try and get another decent striker and let Hojlund go. Obi can be the new novice striker.
The pre season was what Amorim has cried out what was lacking, so he should at least be given that. Whats the alternative? Start with another manager that plays a different system again and confuse these uncompromising players that will be left, even more?

Never happening, we need many new players so we won't and shouldn't be going full out on anyone.

It will be smart cheap purchases.

 

[Shark]

There is no reason whatsoever to be hopeful whether Amorim is managing us at the start of the summer or been sacked.

Last summer there was a glut of experienced managers who were available and attainable. Now, the best we'd be able to do is Allegri or Southgate.

There is only one way that anyone with a realistic view on where the club is at the moment will be able to be hopeful for next season. And that is if we make several good signings that immediately improve the starting eleven. That's it.

The past decade or more should tell you that football doesn't work like that though. How many years have we been saying this? With a few good signings in the summer we'll be mint. Last summer was actually deemed a very good summer by many on here and now they're all shit. It's obvious we need a manager who can really get us going on the pitch too, and not just talk about it endlessly until they're sacked.

 

[hobbers]

The past decade or more should tell you that football doesn't work like that though. How many years have we been saying this? With a few good signings in the dummy we'll be mint. Last summer was actually deemed a very good summer by many on here and now they're all shit. It's obvious we need a manager who can really get us going too, and not just talk about it endlessly until they're sacked.

No it works exactly like that. It worked like that for City, Liverpool and Arsenal. They were shit, they made a few good signings, they became title contenders. Liverpool did that under Brendan fecking Rodgers.

It only doesnt work like that for United, because everyone at the club involved in scouting and signing players have been worse than useless.

 

[Schmeichels pinky]

I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance

 

[Redstain]

The past decade or more should tell you that football doesn't work like that though. How many years have we been saying this? With a few good signings in the summer we'll be mint. Last summer was actually deemed a very good summer by many on here and now they're all shit. It's obvious we need a manager who can really get us going on the pitch too, and not just talk about it endlessly until they're sacked.

Agreed and this is why Ronaldo I believe called Amorim a poet, all he does is talk with little to no substance to back it up.

The owners are the main issue at United their inability to plan critically is the problem. As said you'll find better contingencies and foresight from CEO's of SME's compared to the billionaire hierarchy at United. I personally have no idea how the Glazer's have been successful in life with how they have operated at United. It must be a case of inherited wealth or something because they've shown no diligence or prudence in how they have conducted themselves.

Aside this, the second most prominent issue has been managerial quality. It's no suprise that the manager who was most formerly associated as being world class (Jose) achieved the most in terms of competitive honours. Even when United hired him his capabilities were deemed to be on a downward trajectory so it emphasises the point even further.

The list of: Erik, Amorim, Ragnick, Solskjaer, LVG and Moyes is not a criteria of coaches where we can objectively say in hindsight that the ownership is the only problem, it's a situation where inept owners hired average appointments which has yielded results not compatible with the standards a club like United is accustomed to. What these managers have done prior to being at United is evidence of it.

 

[Garethw]

I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance

You don’t have to be an analyst to see that we have gone backwards since he arrived.

If there was a glimmer of hope that this system was working then fans would be far more forgiving.

After three months of playing this system we should be performing much better and that is on the coaching staff.

 

[Redstain]

I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance

Who was omitted by Liverpool and West Ham who presided with Lopetegui over him. There is more to "one of the most promising coaches in the world" than what meets the eye. His demands and philosophy is enough for clubs to question and his time at United is proving why he wasn't hired by rivals.

That is a reinvention of the scenario associated with Amorim's appointment, he was personally not objectively chosen on the basis of Berrada's recommendation who as the CEO shouldn't have had the responsibility of doing so in the first instance.