Makes a lot of sense that, now!
Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
I had us 8th so it's really not that much of a huge swing you think it is for me. I can't say I took much notice of Forest's transfer business but Elliot and Milenkovic have been top additions for them. They've built a physical team for the PL that Ten Hag couldn't grasp was important.
I also pointed out the biggest issue in this squad is goals and we'd even miss McTominay on that front. And here we are....
You're talking to the wrong man if you want someone who rated this abomination of a team Ten Hag has built pre season.
Tell us your best XI and I'll easily give you 8 better.
Here's the problem with that reasoning: the perception of a squad and the players in that squad are directly influenced by where they sit in the table. This is what I mean when referring to that line of thought as a circular argument.
That’s true but why change formation when you needed an immediate impact
Maybe. Maybe not. He could have kept it fluid
No they just aren't very good players. I wouldn't even put Forest in my top 8 so that argument doesn't work with me. They are riding the crest of Wood scoring with every chance that's all.
We have decent depth at CB, Bruno, and that's it, that's our squad right now of any quality.
No. They don't always keep the same formation. A lot of managers change the formation and the players adapt to it.
So once we get all of these new players in the summer, even though we'll probably be going for a similar level to last summer (because we're broke, and not in Europe) this manager who has had produced absolutely nothing in his tenure so far will have us where next season, do you think?
Poor Pep. My heart bleeds.
Sorry mate but it really isn't. This squad is a 10th - 16th position one, with a total lack of any players who can score goals, a lightweight, ageing midfield, no decent full backs and an error-prone goalkeeper. ETH blew 600 million on terrible players with god awful attitudes to add to the terrible ones we already had.
We are exactly where the team should be in terms of quality.
Yes, everyone should never trust their own lying eyes! Instead, they should listen to people saying all this coach needs is an entirely new team and years to train them before we’re good again. As you were, Caf.
I don't think any manager get's us comfortable top half (not a fluke top half like season) without major upgrades to the starting XI particularly up front and in midfield.
Then you have to ask, what exactly did Manchester United hire Ruben Amorim for? He will most likely not finish 10th this season. If we are going by the premise that a manager should improve the side, even at a marginal level then he should get the boot
Fact of the matter is that he won't be getting 25 brand new players to create his team in his own image (although if that image involves playing 5 defenders at home against Fulham then that is extremely worrying). This fantasy some fans have coined to defend him won't wash. He knows if he doesn't win games then it is curtains. That is the top level. If he wanted an internship, he should return to cosy Sporting Lisbon.
Agreed, luckily there are 3 poor teams in the PL.
Agreed. It would take a brave management team to sack before their final seasons, Ole and Jose. after what they'd managed to achieve. LVG got the right amount of time. Moyes too. ETH was given way too much time. Should have been sacked by Christmas last season.
Hmmm you get a few teams every season that over perform…I fully expect Forest to go back into mid-table next season and conveniently never used to bash United again.
Not sure what United could actually learn from Forest as the comparisons/situations are so vastly different.
Interestingly 0.5% of the voters thought that we would finish below 10th.
Before Amorim started:
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/doe...-able-to-fix-this.485324/page-2#post-32570052
Lets not pretend some of us have drastically changed their views on the squad, we just knew what we were talking about.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/doe...-able-to-fix-this.485324/page-2#post-32570052
Lets not pretend some of us have drastically changed their views on the squad, we just knew what we were talking about.
Doesn't take a brave management team. It takes a big club with actual ambition to return to the top to make the big decisions. United owe nothing to Amorim. If he doesn't win games, he is cooked. It is as simple as that.
But do you think we'll get those upgrades any time soon? We'll probably improve on our striking options, because it'd be hard not to, even for the imbeciles running the club. However I can't see them improving the squad to an extent that this manager has us at least sailing steadily in the top 6 at minimum, given how much he's currently struggling.
Yep, they are 11th on xpts on understat. It's akin to our over performance from 15th to an actual 8th last season.
One thing that can't be excluded is his potential ability to analyze the team after the season and understand how he needs to change things. This possibility is the only reason why I'm not totally in favor of sacking him, the moment ETH lost me was when he botched his second preseason and made no adjustments to obvious flaws in his setup before that I gave him the benefit of doubt.
I think it will be a couple of years until we'll be challenging top 6 again. Too much work to do with little money until the big contracts have gone.
I think we should/would have finished a lot higher if not for…
I also believe that even with the above he should be getting us playing better by now in his formation. The fact that we haven’t improved at all is a huge concern.
- Going into the season with ETH, this was a huge mistake and one a lot saw coming
- Loads of injuries to what would have been important players this season, annoyingly nearly always the same players
- Changing formation to one we do not have the players currently to play it, especially with our injuries
- Decision made to try and move on players who do not suit the new formation without replacing them
- A new manager who will not change formation irrelevant of the above points
I also believe that even with the above he should be getting us playing better by now in his formation. The fact that we haven’t improved at all is a huge concern.
One of the most grim sentences I've seen in a while on here.
If you have a squad that cannot score goals eventually you will start sinking like a stone, which is what's happening with us. We are reliant if we get one then we have to keep a clean sheet and somehow we conspire amongst our players to make sure that does not happen.
Ten Hag drilled the players hard in passing, in his first pre-season.
He set up the team to play the ball forward fast, instead of passing safely.
With Amorim I‘m seeing a mix: sometimes we play it safe and other times we play forward more quickly.
The players have to make it work. Their poor decision making and lack of purposefulness is what is holding us back the most.
We looked better the beginning of the season: we were more compact.
Ruud has us compact too.
There is no tangible improvement yet with Amorim. He‘s failing, but we are giving him more time to try because he undoubtedly is a good coach.
It is probably correct, we are a terrible team. I doubt we can afford Cunha, Mateta and a decent CM.
But probably accurate without an excellent summer window.
Let me soothe your sole. With a couple of good head coaches Chelsea went from 15th when Mourinho was sacked to champions the next season. And no Chelsea didn't have a great team in 15/16 and in 16/17 the only great signing they made was Kanté. I won't tell you that we will be champions but if your manager isn't useless, a team with our squad can make a big jump.
I don't even like our squad but many fans are lying to themselves when they underrate every single player while overrating every opponents.
That is ridiculous. Forest has a better squad than us?
.No, we are underperforming, massively.
This squad is better than last year‘s squad. Certainly good enough for 4th-8th place.
There‘s a good chance ETH would have finished fourth without the injury crisis.
Onana
Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro Dalot
Ugarte Casemiro
Garnacho Bruno Dorgu
Zirkzee
Available senior subs - Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Hojlund
This is realistically the best 4-2-3-1 formation we could play with the available players since the triple injury blow. There's so few available forwards we'd have to play Dorgu or Bruno on the wing. 6! of these players are also brand new to Premier League football this season. Is this side winning enough games to finish in the top 12, under any manager? Clearly not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless or deluded.
I think a low-block counter-attack manager would get better results with this set up, but what's the point of that approach long-term?
Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro Dalot
Ugarte Casemiro
Garnacho Bruno Dorgu
Zirkzee
Available senior subs - Maguire, Lindelof, Eriksen, Hojlund
This is realistically the best 4-2-3-1 formation we could play with the available players since the triple injury blow. There's so few available forwards we'd have to play Dorgu or Bruno on the wing. 6! of these players are also brand new to Premier League football this season. Is this side winning enough games to finish in the top 12, under any manager? Clearly not. Anyone who thinks otherwise is clueless or deluded.
I think a low-block counter-attack manager would get better results with this set up, but what's the point of that approach long-term?
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I just.... I don't even know where to start with any of that, my word.That is ridiculous. Forest has a better squad than us?
No, we are underperforming, massively.
This squad is better than last year‘s squad. Certainly good enough for 4th-8th place.
There‘s a good chance ETH would have finished fourth without the injury crisis.
It's like some people's eyes and brains genuinely work in a different way - like living in opposite world. It's so far from reality that I don't even think I can begin to start to craft any kind of reply that would scratch the surface of the unreality encased in those four sentences.
So I'll just bid you a pleasant evening
I'm baffled that anyone can look at that and think "yeah that should be getting top 6 level results". What are they seeing that we aren't?
And I'm baffled by anyone pretending that the 2 months before the second week of February. We failed to gain points when we had Amad, Rashford, Antony, Collyer, Mainoo and Martinez. This reframing of that period is strange.
I just assume these sorts mind have a case of Fifa brainrot. Their only way of assessing the squad is like - Onana (83), Martinez (84), Shaw (82), Dalot (82), Casemiro (84), Rashford (81), Zirkzee (79), Garnacho (79), Hojlund (78), Mount (78) - "How is this squad not finishing in the top 8!!?"
They lack the mental dexterity to process that almost every single player in the squad falls under one or more of these categories - 1. injured 2. brand new to the league 3. running down their contract 4. performing at relegation level
Which results in that time frame were particularly surprising?
And you say those names like they are special, they aren't. We hope Amad might be, Rashford sits on the bench for Villa, Mainoo has fallen off a cliff (but is still only 19), Martinez isn't a good defender, Antony?!.
All of them, the performances were underwhelming for the vast majority and the exception were against Arsenal and City. And I named these players because injuries and players being out today was brought up as if it was something that applied to the entirey of the past 3 months.
Also while you weren't sold on that team, you thought that 8th was our spot. So logically you expected better from this team than a 31% win rate.
Yep I overrated us, but did see it as more likely lower than 8th than higher so I'm just not surprised at all by it.
I don't agree with this man but I have to respect how much reputation he's gambling on United not finishing 2 positions ahead of where they are.