Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

Wolfbot said:
It's not revisionism, he did relatively well albeit only for four games. Two teams we played over three of those weren't very good so it's impossible to know how it would have gone over a longer period.

People look fondly on it because although the football wasn't going to massively improve in such a short time, we looked the most comfortable we had done as a team for a long time with one of the best runs of results we've had in a long time to boot. It's only natural people will wander what if.

I don't believe it was luck, you don't have bad luck under two managers then get incredibly lucky under the interim in between. He might not have done much, but he certainly did something positive. To be honest, it just looked to me like the players were playing closer together and it really helped.
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To be honest it's not really rocket science is it. New manager bounce = look at the players you have and play them in roles suited + trying to improve mood and confidence.

Amorim has actively done the opposite of the two so it's not exactly surprising we don't look better.

The hope would be that the offset would be the more tactically we work on the system the better we look, but really there's nothing to see. It's telling Amorim has basically stopped saying we'll see improvements with more training time.

At this stage the best hope is we have an amazing summer window, sign 3-4 players that improve the first XI (feels like we have at best a 50 percent hit rate) and maybe we start getting a bit of a confidence and mood lift.
 
stevoc said:
The only manager that got the right amount of time was LVG. Moyes, Jose, Ole and Ten Hag all got at least 6 months longer than they should have had.
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Not sure anyone was seriously suggesting sacking Ole and Jose at the end of the 2nd full seasons where they both finished 2nd and lost a cup final. The both probably got a month too long in all fairness. Same with Moyes really.

ETH is the stand out, comfortably 6 months too long probably bordering on 12 months.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Sorry if I was unclear. I think we'll end up 16th this season and 12-16th in Amorim's two remaning seasons. We might have the cash to sack him but that would mean less cash for transfers. I think he'll be given at least another 6 months but it will not change much.
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I understood your point and I'm saying that the math do not add up. Amorim has allegedly a 6.5m wage, at June 30th he will 2 years in his contract which equates to 13m, we have that cash without changing our transfer budget but lets pretend that we are short of 13m. In the PL last year the difference between 15th and 10th was 14m, if you climb to 8th the difference is 19.8m. Unless the belief is that no other manager could be 8th or 10th next season, then the financially prudent move would be to sack the manager if money is a real problem. It may sound paradoxal but your expectations combined with your idea that we have money issues should lead to the sacking of the manager.
 
Longshanks said:
Not sure anyone was seriously suggesting sacking Ole and Jose at the end of the 2nd full seasons where they both finished 2nd and lost a cup final. The both probably got a month too long in all fairness. Same with Moyes really.

ETH is the stand out, comfortably 6 months too long probably bordering on 12 months.
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Plenty of people were done with Mourinho after his rant following the Sevilla loss. It was in March 2018.
 
Longshanks said:
Not sure anyone was seriously suggesting sacking Ole and Jose at the end of the 2nd full seasons where they both finished 2nd and lost a cup final. The both probably got a month too long in all fairness. Same with Moyes really.

ETH is the stand out, comfortably 6 months too long probably bordering on 12 months.
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Most were suggesting Ole shouldn't even have been given a contract while he was still interim before the end of the season, let alone sacking him
 
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Amorim should not be sack, Ineos created this mess with personnel issues. Find him a good striker, right back, attacking midfielder and a central midfielder. This results will improve. Hoijund is completely useless Infront of goal, Dalot is brain-dead footballer, Garnacho is really wasteful given all the opportunities. Lastly, we need another midfielder who can chip in with goals. Everything will turn around quickly as our defense is set.
 
JPRouve said:
I understood your point and I'm saying that the math do not add up. Amorim has allegedly a 6.5m wage, at June 30th he will 2 years in his contract which equates to 13m, we have that cash without changing our transfer budget but lets pretend that we are short of 13m. In the PL last year the difference between 15th and 10th was 14m, if you climb to 8th the difference is 19.8m. Unless the belief is that no other manager could be 8th or 10th next season, then the financially prudent move would be to sack the manager if money is a real problem. It may sound paradoxal but your expectations combined with your idea that we have money issues should lead to the sacking of the manager.
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I am guessing that the board keeps Amorim in the hope that he and a couple of decent signings can lift us to 4-6th next season. Sacking him in May would generate an immediate cost, while the increased income from this season's probable 16th to next year's maybe 8th place with a new manager would not be in our accounts until May 2026.

We were desperate for a LB in January and bought a young player from Lecce. Ait Nouri and Kertesz were too expensive. That should tell us a lot about our money issues.
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
Although I would not include Dorgu in this theory I believe we will focus more on snapping up very young players purely with a view to selling them on at a profit later
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That’s only if them players improve though. If we lose game after game and players don’t perform then the value instantly drops. Where as if players perform well and win us games then there price tag rises.
 
Longshanks said:
Not sure anyone was seriously suggesting sacking Ole and Jose at the end of the 2nd full seasons where they both finished 2nd and lost a cup final. The both probably got a month too long in all fairness. Same with Moyes really.

ETH is the stand out, comfortably 6 months too long probably bordering on 12 months.
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Given Mourinho's history of having a meltdown in year 3 of virtually every club he'd managed the contract extension seemed ill advised. And with how the 17/18 season ended especially in Europe, parting ways that summer would have been the sensible path to take.

WIth Ole there was no such negativity during his 2nd season but at the same time I doubt anyone within the club or fanbase really believed he could lead United to a title. By early 2021 I didn't think he was the one to take us to the next step. I was desperate for him to win the Europa, but again that summer probably should have been a time when the club could/should have decided to go in a different direction.

Post SAF the club have never been proactive (bar arguably with LVG). We've always waited until things go completely tits up and then react only when things get really bad. Look at last season, Ten Hag should have been sacked at least twice. Then again in the summer and again during the international break before we eventually did sack him. That dithering and indecision played no small part in where the club currently finds itself.
 
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Posh Red said:
Good point. Let’s bring Moyes back.
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In all likelihood a better manager than Amorim will ever turn out to be at the top level.
I love many fans wishful thinking on Amorim so desperately hope he turns out to be much better in the long run.

I’m fairly certain Moyes would’ve done a much better job closing out this season than Amorim has if he’d taken this job on mid season.
 
KM said:
There's no logical explanation on leaving 5 open spots on the subs bench when there's no U21 match happening nearby. It's frankly ridiculous and undermines the whole academy.
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Agreed, really poor from Amorim. Ole and LVG would never.
 
Who's Kissing Cameras? said:
This is sickening. Bruno surrounded by literal shit.
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Yeah because Bruno never gives the ball away stupidly or costs us with moronic handballs or red cards.

As for Amorim, I thought the performance against Sociedad was a good marker. We largely nullified them and created the much better chances, it was clear to see our main issue was a lack of quality not bad coaching. And in regards to his treatment of the the youth, I can see his side of the equation. He does not want to throw youngsters into the deep end in what is the business end of the season and risk them taking a huge hit to their confidence and development. Of course in some cases he has no choice but I understand the hesitancy even though I'd prefer he does give them more of a chance. It's natural that when you feel the pressure, you'll turn to the likes of Casemiro and Lindelof ( much more impressive resumes) than a teenager making his first couple starts.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
Sorry if I was unclear. I think we'll end up 16th this season and 12-16th in Amorim's two remaning seasons. We might have the cash to sack him but that would mean less cash for transfers. I think he'll be given at least another 6 months but it will not change much.
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I'll bet you a hundred bucks to the charity of the winners choosing that if Amorim is given all of next season we won't finish below 12th.
 
Revival2024 said:
Amorim is not Pep. He has no body of work to rely upon to get such a backing. He has to illustrate progress, even minimal. His current coaching set up can't get players to string 5 passes together. His team concede from nearly every set pieces. Almost every attack from the opposition leads to a goal. They can't seem to control games.

No matter how people dress it up, he will never and should never get 15 players to revolutionise the team. The best manager find ways to improve players and he hasn't.

Deep down, Amorim knows he is on his last legs. If you don't win games, you don't get more chances. Simples
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Pep has never ever taken over a team in the bottom half of a league.

Any manager that came or comes into this club is going to need much better quality players. Amorim is there because he was rated as the best young coach in a Europe and is the best coach we can attract. He’s a manager/coach, not a miracle worker. Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.
 
Ted Lasso said:
I see no evidence that being consistent winners of the Europa League will lead to becoming a title contender let alone a mainstay in the top 4 of a top league.

That's my main case here - winning the Europa League shouldn't be the benchmark for progress right now. Even if we look at Mourinhos tenure that's another United specific example of that.

-- for reference

Sevilla FC's European Cup Wins & Subsequent League & UCL Performance (Last 20 Years):
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Anyone who is remotely aware about the history of that club knows that the Europa League wins for Sevilla were a benchmark of progress. This was a club that hadn't finished in the top 4 in decades and was playing in the second division of Spanish football a few years before their first UEFA Cup win. During the long period in which they were winning UEFA/Europa Leagues they finished in the top 4 multiple times and even managed to be outside candidates for a title race.

Now if you want another example, Klopp led Liverpool to a Europa League final, which they lost. Then two seasons later they reached another European final (this time the Champions league), and the seaosn after they reached it again. That's 3 European finals in 4 years which showed a clear mark of progress.

The attitude around this is bizarrely defeatist. EL win gives you CL qualification. It's one of two ways to achieve it. The fact that United can't achieve it the 'normal' way this season doesn't mean they shouldn't do everything possible to achieve it the other way, it's the only concrete objective that remains this season.
 
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Steve 007 said:
Pep has never ever taken over a team in the bottom half of a league.

Any manager that came or comes into this club is going to need much better quality players. Amorim is there because he was rated as the best young coach in a Europe and is the best coach we can attract. He’s a manager/coach, not a miracle worker. Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.
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To the bolded part....I ask why??

We've seen Moyes walk into Everton and start winning games, Pereira at wolves do likewise, Lampard at Coventry, Muslic at Plymouth just to name a few walking into struggling teams and make an immediate difference without changing personnel.

The interesting thing to note about these managers/coaches are they all have their own style which they implemented at their respective clubs, but they did it with the players they have at at their disposal in mind.

I understand what Amorim is trying to do, just he can't do it with these players, it doesn't work as they just aren't suited to the system. Why persevere with something that is obviously not working, why not adapt?
He should be doing better, much much better.
 
Steve 007 said:
Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.
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It's practically the same squad he won the Premier League with last season. 'Squad quality' is just mysticism at this point.
 
Steve 007 said:
Pep has never ever taken over a team in the bottom half of a league.

Any manager that came or comes into this club is going to need much better quality players. Amorim is there because he was rated as the best young coach in a Europe and is the best coach we can attract. He’s a manager/coach, not a miracle worker. Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.
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By who? I thought those young coaches from Bundesliga, would be at the top of these ehm charts. Also, that Arne Slot was not highly rated or even known by some "expert" in a fancy article last summer clearly means feck all. (I had no clue who he was either to be fair)
 
stepic said:
Because you guys are getting the semantic point wrong.

Let’s see if ChatGPT can do a better job at explaining:

The semantic difference lies in the distinction between coercion or external pressure (forcing someone’s hand) and direct compulsion (literally forcing someone).

• “Forcing someone’s hand” means applying pressure, limiting choices, or creating circumstances that leave someone with little realistic alternative but to act in a certain way. It implies external factors or strategic moves influencing their decision, even if they technically still have agency.

• Example: Amorim was forced to join United mid-season rather than in the summer because the club couldn’t risk waiting and potentially having to sign another manager instead.

• “Literally forcing someone” implies direct, overt compulsion, where the person has no choice in a physical or absolute sense. It suggests the use of physical force, threats, or extreme coercion.

• Example: Amorim was literally forced to join United—kidnapped, handcuffed, and dragged to Manchester against his will.

So in your example, Amorim was pressured or left with no viable alternative rather than being physically or absolutely compelled.
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Irrespective of arguments for and against the point, do we really need posts based on Chat GPT now?
 
Difference between 15th and 8th place finish is 20M short
Not in champions league is 60-100M short and 10M cut by Adidas
Not in Europa league is 40-60M short

so we are easily losing close to 100M by not doing well in competitions itself, hope we fix that one quickly with good recruitment
 
JPRouve said:
Plenty of people were done with Mourinho after his rant following the Sevilla loss. It was in March 2018.
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I wanted Mourinho to get the United job - he got it later than he should have and I found out from here that something he did in his job outside the UK apparently made Sir Bobby Charlton completely oppsed to his appointment. Thanks for the reminder of that loose cannon rant, absolutely inappropriate.
 
Revival2024 said:
Amorim is not Pep. He has no body of work to rely upon to get such a backing. He has to illustrate progress, even minimal. His current coaching set up can't get players to string 5 passes together. His team concede from nearly every set pieces. Almost every attack from the opposition leads to a goal. They can't seem to control games.

No matter how people dress it up, he will never and should never get 15 players to revolutionise the team. The best manager find ways to improve players and he hasn't.

Deep down, Amorim knows he is on his last legs. If you don't win games, you don't get more chances. Simples
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Excellent post
 
Escobar said:
I disagree. Because it misses a crucial point, team and structure are shit and we have been like that for almost a decade now
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Yeah he talks like under ETH or Ole we were good at passing. Pretty sure we've had a thread complaining about it for at least 5 years now.
 
Escobar said:
I disagree. Because it misses a crucial point, team and structure are shit and we have been like that for almost a decade now
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I find this to be exaggerated, there is overall negligence and mismanagement from the Glazers that goes without saying but United have won multiple honours in that time frame and have numerous finishes in European places.

If Amorim came in and exceeded expectations the players wouldn't be praised, he the manager would receive the accolades and commendation.

The manager from a competitive standpoint is now in a position where 80% of the leagues coaches are as and even more competent than him. It's vastly different to his situation at Sporting.

In the summer the overwhelming consensus in the forum was that there wasn't any outstanding manager to replace Erik with. My question is what's changed? United have taken a chance on Amorim, the risk is he's unproven. It doesn't look to be paying off.
 
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Ronaldo's Love Child said:
Although I would not include Dorgu in this theory I believe we will focus more on snapping up very young players purely with a view to selling them on at a profit later
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That's nonsense.

The plan for the club would need to be to stay in the shitter for this to happen.

Constantly buying 18/19 year olds in the hope that they will come good enough to sell in 3 or 4 years isn't a viable option.

They need to target players in that 20-24 age bracket that are already good enough, so they can build a squad that will grow and mature together. You need 3 tiers to your sqaud,

Tier 1. Older guys to guide the youngsters
Tier 2. Majority of players coming to their peak
Tier 3. Younger players who will grow into tier 2.

Utd currently have too many in 1 & 3 and very little in 2.

You either buy players ready for 2, this will cost a hell of a lot of money.

Or you bring them in and develop them, with the expectation that they will eventually stay and become tier 1 and tier 2 players. This takes time, to do. In that time the club, the recruitment and coaching setup has to be ready and willing to be patient to help these players reach their maturity and peak.

Utd becoming a moneyball club, can't and should not be allowed to happen.
 
Steve 007 said:
Pep has never ever taken over a team in the bottom half of a league.

Any manager that came or comes into this club is going to need much better quality players. Amorim is there because he was rated as the best young coach in a Europe and is the best coach we can attract. He’s a manager/coach, not a miracle worker. Pep who’s one of the best ever has shown this season what happens when you don’t have the right squad.
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Pep has only managed sure things. Hes only ever taken over teams/squads pretty much nailed on for top four and not far of challanging for titles and champions league, if not ready.

Hes unproven at a club that’s been struggling for awhile. United tried to make him manager before city, he was cute enough to see the clown show setup and steer well clear.

United’s main issue hasn’t been managers , I can’t say I’m surprised that many fans still don’t get it.
 
Revival2024 said:
Amorim is not Pep. He has no body of work to rely upon to get such a backing. He has to illustrate progress, even minimal. His current coaching set up can't get players to string 5 passes together. His team concede from nearly every set pieces. Almost every attack from the opposition leads to a goal. They can't seem to control games.

No matter how people dress it up, he will never and should never get 15 players to revolutionise the team. The best manager find ways to improve players and he hasn't.

Deep down, Amorim knows he is on his last legs. If you don't win games, you don't get more chances. Simples
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Not sure that's true, generally I think ball retention has improved under him except for a handful of game.

But there is no set up that prevents players from receiving and passing a ball well. The only thing to stop that is the players ability.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Yeah he talks like under ETH or Ole we were good at passing. Pretty sure we've had a thread complaining about it for at least 5 years now.
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Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected
 
giggs-beckham said:
Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected
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To get people crisper at passing involves passing drills. We likely aren’t doing those as much seeing as we have limited training days and they will be split between understanding the system vs preparing for the next game tactically.
 
What I find really frustrating is I don't think we're as far off as results would suggest. Defensively we're pretty good. Midfield is alright, needs a signing but I don't think it's a complete disaster.

A couple of good attackers and I think we're back in the mix. Not for league titles but top 4 or 5.
 
giggs-beckham said:
Is he not supposed to be better than those managers though? Seeing as they were sacked. Can't he improve any metrics with these players? We look worse under him, not slightly better as i expected
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He's barely had any time and he's dealing with the worst squad we've had in a decade. He has shown signs of improvement even if they haven't been consistent enough yet.
 
macheda14 said:
To get people crisper at passing involves passing drills. We likely aren’t doing those as much seeing as we have limited training days and they will be split between understanding the system vs preparing for the next game tactically.
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I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.
 
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