Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

Desert Eagle said:
He's barely had any time and he's dealing with the worst squad we've had in a decade. He has shown signs of improvement even if they haven't been consistent enough yet.
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The technical level is so low, hope he doesn't just go for physicality in player recruitment profile
 
giggs-beckham said:
The technical level is so low, hope he doesn't just go for physicality in player recruitment profile
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Agreed. It's really such a failure of recruitment and planning from the parasites. We need 3-4 good quality players to add to our midfield and attacking options.
 
Pexbo said:
This is just objectively nonsense.
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'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.
 
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The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.
 
wolvored said:
The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.
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How so?
 
Seeing that short video of the inability to make productive passes and keep the ball shows how dire the team can be. Knocking the ball around and keeping it until an opening should be basic for a Manchester United team especially given all the cash splashed for years now.
The silver lining here is the draw in the Europa league - I honestly thought United was going to be beaten 0-1. I still think something can be pulled out of the hat for the return game and it`s going to be great for morale if the result is 2-0 United`s way.
 
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Yes, Amorim does need to improve the team as it is, and start winning games, or he will be sacked.
He also does not deserve, nor will he get, 15 new players or anything like that.

He does deserve a couple of quality attackers and a preseason though, doesn't he?
 
wolvored said:
The thing the owners need to break is this ‘biggest club in the world “ nonsense. Best supported has a strong chance, but all the other metrics, ground, players, trophies etc are nowhere near.
This has led to spending vast amounts of money spent on certain players to uphold this notion. The ground, facilities etc have been left behind, while other teams have passed us by.
When Fergie left the owners put in a structure of incompetence that was like a kid in a sweet shop, trying random things that didn’t go together and thought the money would last forever .
Now Amorim, or any other manager here, has to deal with stupid player power problems that don’t seem to exist anywhere else and consequently we cannot get a tune out of them.
I am hoping, but not with any conviction that Ineos can put us back on the right path, but think it will be years and that’s why Amorim reckons it won’t be in his time here.
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Gary Lineker made the point recently that the Manchester United problem goes back to the Ferguson era - there seems to have been no real plans for life post Sir Alex and the structure to tide United through the uncertainty his retirement would bring just wasn`t there. `Player power problems` exist at other clubs - it`s just that we were used to seeing United keep things in-house for the most, had a strong manager in Sir Alex, were dealing with a different demographic of player who didn`t have social media to run to all the time and were lucky to have the stability of the Alex Ferguson era.

David Beckham was got rid due to his attitude - he had to be separated from Sir Alex at one point in the dressing room, became an international icon for more than football and wasn`t prepared to sit quietly and listen to the manager`s venting nor his advice about stretching himself too thin travelling everywhere to promote his brand but it seems to have been the activity of his PR with his blessing that caused the significant part of the rift. Not sure if he would have taken to twitter and instagram if they`d been a factor back then to snipe at Sir Alex and the club when the relationship soured.
 
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giggs-beckham said:
I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.
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Yes, it`s a fundamental in order to play at the top level. Paul Scholes could certainly teach the squad more than a few things about this as well as Eric Cantona.
 
Adz_99 said:
What I find really frustrating is I don't think we're as far off as results would suggest. Defensively we're pretty good. Midfield is alright, needs a signing but I don't think it's a complete disaster.

A couple of good attackers and I think we're back in the mix. Not for league titles but top 4 or 5.
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We are, especially if the plan is to persist with Amorim-ball (the formation isn't the so much the problem as the profiles are). The underlying metrics suggest that there's a lot to be desired in the way we defend. Midfield is an utter disaster, and if the big heads at the club don't realize that, we'll be in big trouble in the near future. More experience and ability up front is needed, of course, but if we don't supplement the forwards with players who are comfortable in the half-spaces, we'll be throwing money in a bottomless pit again.
 
Escobar said:
I disagree. Because it misses a crucial point, team and structure are shit and we have been like that for almost a decade now
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Even if it were the case that the team and management are 100% to blame and Amorim is innocent, it would still indicate that he is the wrong choice for right now. The idea that we can just lounge around the bottom half of the league for a few years while he finally strips and rebuilds the team is folly. We cannot and should not allow that.

I hated ETH but he did miles better with a ravaged squad last season.

How some of you can watch us lose week in week out without showing the slightest glimmer of hope and then tell yourselves that this manager is the one is mental. The only reason we’re not in the relegation battle seriously, is because of the 2 managers that we started the season with.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.
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It’s not that difficult.

Is a strike force of Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge and Coutinho a title challenging attack? No

Is it better than Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho? Significantly

You’re just not getting how bad our forward line is.
 
pcaming said:
Even if it were the case that the team and management are 100% to blame and Amorim is innocent, it would still indicate that he is the wrong choice for right now. The idea that we can just lounge around the bottom half of the league for a few years while he finally strips and rebuilds the team is folly. We cannot and should not allow that.

I hated ETH but he did miles better with a ravaged squad last season.

How some of you can watch us lose week in week out without showing the slightest glimmer of hope and then tell yourselves that this manager is the one is mental. The only reason we’re not in the relegation battle seriously, is because of the 2 managers that we started the season with.
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"Get him five new signings in the summer and we'll be firing next season" is based on pure hope, just as it was with ETH after he won the FA Cup. We're living on pure hopefulness, not actual evidence which is incredibly impulsive.
 
Not only stinking the place out, also alienating our most promising talents. In a few years, we'll look back to this period in utter dread
 
Shark said:
"Get him five new signings in the summer and we'll be firing next season" is based on pure hope, just as it was with ETH after he won the FA Cup. We're living on pure hopefulness, not actual evidence which is incredibly impulsive.
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There’s an aspect of hope to anything though.

Getting rid of him and bringing in a new manager would also be based on hope.

Signing any player there’s a degree of hope as not every player adjusts to the league or the pressure of playing for United

We have evidence his system works in Portugal. That is at least some evidence to justify backing him.
 
stepic said:
There’s an aspect of hope to anything though.

Getting rid of him and bringing in a new manager would also be based on hope.

Signing any player there’s a degree of hope as not every player adjusts to the league or the pressure of playing for United

We have evidence his system works in Portugal. That is at least some evidence to justify backing him.
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That's true, but do you understand that many fans would be much more hopeful if he was actually giving them something to hold on to? The football is negative, the results are negative, the press conferences are negative, the one signing he's brought in hasn't pulled up any trees yet, and not a single player has improved under his coaching. He needs to start producing something so fans can say "look at what he's doing with this sorry lot, with 5 new signings he'll surely have us on the right track" but he's giving us nothing.
 
giggs-beckham said:
I want to see players move into space to give a passing option to the player in possession. That's trainable and I wouldn't say you need top class players for it.
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I was instinctively able to do that and so were my mates as kids and we were nowhere near professional


If you are not doing that, you’re not trying or not a footballer
 
stevoc said:
How so?
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Player power where there are leaks to the press. Where the players dont put the effort in, wont adapt, yet seem to be able to at other teams. Willing to take a pay cut to play elsewhere, but try and hold Utd to ransom. Unfit all season, but as soon as the national team are in a final, miraculously are able to play, then are unfit again, for months on end. Hows that for a start?
 
ryansgirl said:
Gary Lineker made the point recently that the Manchester United problem goes back to the Ferguson era - there seems to have been no real plans for life post Sir Alex and the structure to tide United through the uncertainty his retirement would bring just wasn`t there. `Player power problems` exist at other clubs - it`s just that we were used to seeing United keep things in-house for the most, had a strong manager in Sir Alex, were dealing with a different demographic of player who didn`t have social media to run to all the time and were lucky to have the stability of the Alex Ferguson era.

David Beckham was got rid due to his attitude - he had to be separated from Sir Alex at one point in the dressing room, became an international icon for more than football and wasn`t prepared to sit quietly and listen to the manager`s venting nor his advice about stretching himself too thin travelling everywhere to promote his brand but it seems to have been the activity of his PR with his blessing that caused the significant part of the rift. Not sure if he would have taken to twitter and instagram if they`d been a factor back then to snipe at Sir Alex and the club when the relationship soured.
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Beckham was a WC or as near as damnit, at Utd though. He didnt let his standards drop at all, while at Utd.
I know there are problems at other clubs with individual players, but nowhere near as at Utd, where it seems there are more than one. Nor does it get reported in the media every other day.
The toxicity affects new players signed. Has any player we have signed gotten better over the seasons? Even our most influential player, Bruno has dropped significantly since he came in.
 
hellhunter said:
Not only stinking the place out, also alienating our most promising talents. In a few years, we'll look back to this period in utter dread
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Outside of amad and yoro we don't really have any promising talents that have played much, and there seems to be no problems with them.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
'Squad quality' is one of the most slippery arguments I see on Redcafe.

I can't count the number of times I've heard that Klopp and Arteta couldn't do anything with their crap squads that they finished 8th with and that's why you need to give managers time if they are 6th-8th. Now that United has a manager at around 12-14th I'm hearing that Klopp had a formidable strike force and that's why he did so well. C'mon.
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What? Klopp did have a formidable strike force. One he put together because the quality of his squad when he arrived was awful. Arteta and Klopp both shifted on a lot of players.
 
FortunaUtd said:
Yes, Amorim does need to improve the team as it is, and start winning games, or he will be sacked.
He also does not deserve, nor will he get, 15 new players or anything like that.

He does deserve a couple of quality attackers and a preseason though, doesn't he?
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We should be going all out for a quality attacker, as a novice and a teenager doesnt cut it. I would even try and get another decent striker and let Hojlund go. Obi can be the new novice striker.
The pre season was what Amorim has cried out what was lacking, so he should at least be given that. Whats the alternative? Start with another manager that plays a different system again and confuse these uncompromising players that will be left, even more?
 
macheda14 said:
What? Klopp did have a formidable strike force. One he put together because the quality of his squad when he arrived was awful. Arteta and Klopp both shifted on a lot of players.
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Think he's referring to when Klopp first arrived at Liverpool. Could be wrong though.
 
wolvored said:
We should be going all out for a quality attacker, as a novice and a teenager doesnt cut it. I would even try and get another decent striker and let Hojlund go. Obi can be the new novice striker.
The pre season was what Amorim has cried out what was lacking, so he should at least be given that. Whats the alternative? Start with another manager that plays a different system again and confuse these uncompromising players that will be left, even more?
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Never happening, we need many new players so we won't and shouldn't be going full out on anyone.

It will be smart cheap purchases.
 
hobbers said:
There is no reason whatsoever to be hopeful whether Amorim is managing us at the start of the summer or been sacked.

Last summer there was a glut of experienced managers who were available and attainable. Now, the best we'd be able to do is Allegri or Southgate.

There is only one way that anyone with a realistic view on where the club is at the moment will be able to be hopeful for next season. And that is if we make several good signings that immediately improve the starting eleven. That's it.
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The past decade or more should tell you that football doesn't work like that though. How many years have we been saying this? With a few good signings in the summer we'll be mint. Last summer was actually deemed a very good summer by many on here and now they're all shit. It's obvious we need a manager who can really get us going on the pitch too, and not just talk about it endlessly until they're sacked.
 
I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance
 
Shark said:
The past decade or more should tell you that football doesn't work like that though. How many years have we been saying this? With a few good signings in the summer we'll be mint. Last summer was actually deemed a very good summer by many on here and now they're all shit. It's obvious we need a manager who can really get us going on the pitch too, and not just talk about it endlessly until they're sacked.
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Agreed and this is why Ronaldo I believe called Amorim a poet, all he does is talk with little to no substance to back it up.

The owners are the main issue at United their inability to plan critically is the problem. As said you'll find better contingencies and foresight from CEO's of SME's compared to the billionaire hierarchy at United. I personally have no idea how the Glazer's have been successful in life with how they have operated at United. It must be a case of inherited wealth or something because they've shown no diligence or prudence in how they have conducted themselves.

Aside this, the second most prominent issue has been managerial quality. It's no suprise that the manager who was most formerly associated as being world class (Jose) achieved the most in terms of competitive honours. Even when United hired him his capabilities were deemed to be on a downward trajectory so it emphasises the point even further.

The list of: Erik, Amorim, Ragnick, Solskjaer, LVG and Moyes is not a criteria of coaches where we can objectively say in hindsight that the ownership is the only problem, it's a situation where inept owners hired average appointments which has yielded results not compatible with the standards a club like United is accustomed to. What these managers have done prior to being at United is evidence of it.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance
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You don’t have to be an analyst to see that we have gone backwards since he arrived.

If there was a glimmer of hope that this system was working then fans would be far more forgiving.

After three months of playing this system we should be performing much better and that is on the coaching staff.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
I love how many average Joes on a football think they possess the analytical skills to know that one of the most promising coaches in the world according to professionals is doing everything wrong after a few months here.

Yes, you’re entitled to your opinion, no results aren’t good enough, but come on. Let’s give the man a chance
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Who was omitted by Liverpool and West Ham who presided with Lopetegui over him. There is more to "one of the most promising coaches in the world" than what meets the eye. His demands and philosophy is enough for clubs to question and his time at United is proving why he wasn't hired by rivals.

That is a reinvention of the scenario associated with Amorim's appointment, he was personally not objectively chosen on the basis of Berrada's recommendation who as the CEO shouldn't have had the responsibility of doing so in the first instance.
 
In the same way that it was frequently stated the manager who followed SAF had something of a poisoned chalice, I think the opposite is true here if Amorim were to leave. All the tough financial decisions will have been already linked to the previous manager and the owners. But the benefits not yet truly felt. It will be very very difficult to be worse than 15th, virtually any change will be a positive one. And just looking at the players whose contracts expire either this summer or the next…
Eriksen
Lindelof
Evans
Heaton
Casemiro
Maguire
… all aged 30-38, some very high wages which aren’t even nearly reflected in their performances.
To me it’s one of the biggest arguments I can see for Amorim staying on. The club will be in a much much healthier position.
Just my 2p worth.

Edit- depending on how accurately the wages are reported, there are potentially £50 million of annual savings there. That’s a huge saving for a not too big drop off in ability.
 
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stepic said:
It’s not that difficult.

Is a strike force of Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge and Coutinho a title challenging attack? No

Is it better than Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho? Significantly

You’re just not getting how bad our forward line is.
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Daniel Sturridge was perpetually injured by the time Klopp took over. He scored 8 goals that season, after which he never scored more than 4 league goals in a season again, ever, for any team. Phillipe Coutinho scored 8 goals that season, which is his joint-second highest tally ever, as he was never any kind of prolific goalscorer. Christian Benteke was benched by Klopp and was widely acknowledged as a flop transfer, he was shipped off that summer. Firminho scored 10 goals.

These numbers aren't dissimilar from what Hojlund scored last season (10) or what Zirkzee scored in Serie A (11). You are also for some reason ignoring Bruno Fernandes, who has been United's second-highest goalscorer in every season since he joined, and Amad Diallo, who was only injured very recently.
 
stepic said:
It’s not that difficult.

Is a strike force of Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge and Coutinho a title challenging attack? No

Is it better than Hojlund, Zirkzee and Garnacho? Significantly

You’re just not getting how bad our forward line is.
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Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge Coutinho,

Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Amad, Bruno Fernandes, Rashford

Which is what Amorim had when he arrived. I'd say there is not much difference. (Thats without Atnony)
 
wolvored said:
Player power where there are leaks to the press. Where the players dont put the effort in, wont adapt, yet seem to be able to at other teams.
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I don't follow press rumours so I'm not sure if there are still leaks. But from what I've seen these players are putting effort in during games and at least trying to follow instructions and adapt to Amorims system. But their confidence is in the shitter.

in Willing to take a pay cut to play elsewhere, but try and hold Utd to ransom.
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That's not player power or holding the club to ransom that's choosing to see out their conract which they have every right to do. Contracts work both ways.

Unfit all season, but as soon as the national team are in a final, miraculously are able to play, then are unfit again, for months on end. Hows that for a start?
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Shaw?
 
Garethw said:
You don’t have to be an analyst to see that we have gone backwards since he arrived.

If there was a glimmer of hope that this system was working then fans would be far more forgiving.

After three months of playing this system we should be performing much better and that is on the coaching staff.
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Fine margins, no?

A Dalot pass away from Hojlund scoring? A Garnacho pass away from Bruno scoring.... This is happening multiple times a game.

This isn't a system or formation issue, this is braindead greedy players not doing as they should.
 
should have just sticked with Louie van gaal or Mourinho. surely able to gets 1 title in 12 years.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Benteke, Firminho, Sturridge Coutinho,

Hojlund, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Amad, Bruno Fernandes, Rashford

Which is what Amorim had when he arrived. I'd say there is not much difference. (Thats without Atnony)
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Yet those 4 Liverpool combined for 34 PL goals and those 6 United players have so far combined for 24.

Now for fairness let’s add in 10 more goals for Liverpool for their next 2 highest goal scorers Milner and Origi to make it fairer and you’re at 44 to 24, granted the season isn’t over yet.

However that’s not even considering the fact Rashford isn’t even here anymore and Amad is injured. Also that Bruno is being forced to play further back to cover for a lack of cover in central midfield.

If we had an extra 20 goals from this squad we’d no doubt be further up the ladder too. It’s not rocket science, Klopp had more to work with that first season.
 
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