Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach

acnumber9 said:
Tell me what’s so different. I’m keen to learn from an expert.
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If you don’t have actual eyes that watch games, or have ever bothered to listen to Amorim himself, then I have a fair idea that you’re not going to listen to me. So I don’t think I’ll bother.

the doubling down is hilarious though.
 
DRJosh said:
From reading these posts it would seem all Amorim has in his managerial arsenal is the 3-4-3 formation and absolutely nothing else.

Given how poor we’ve looked for a very long time even before Amorim’s tenure, I’m quite sure that we’d look just as dire with 4 at the back. Amorim’s formation has become a handy hammer to knock the team and coach with, but United’s problems sadly run far deeper.

There remains to be a severe lack of leaders in this team which has led to a very stale culture.
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This is exactly not it, if you follow his short career, what made him so exciting was that he had multiple variations on a 3 at the back system which is normally coached as a low block team that hits opponents on the counter.

His Sporting team and tbf in a few games with United we’ve seen him adapt, his philosophy is the team defends as a team unit and attacks as a team unit,
the distances between his three man defence and wing backs are carefully planned and requires a huge amount of running from the wing backs to defend as a 5 man tight defence and then attack as 6/7 man attacking unit with multiple third man overloads.

His sporting team dominated possession and simply outworked their opponents and had much more quality currently in their front 3 positions than we have, they also had fast young Centre backs like Diomende, Inacio,
J St Juste, E Quaresma, Zeno Debast and M Reis .

All of them are athletic and the two oldest are just 28; St Juste and the Brazilian Mateus Reis all play a high line and push the team into a far more compact unit plus they all have decent pace to make recovery tackles.

We have MDL, H Maguire, Lindelof, Evans, Martinez who are all pretty slow and most can’t play a high line, this means that the distances the wing backs and midfielder have to run are far greater than players who played for him at Sporting would have had to run paying in the same positions.

I don’t subscribe to the theory that all of these players are awful and they are the worst in history, the truth is Amorim needs to probably start with the following back three of Mazraoui, MDL(who can just about play a high line) and Lenny Yoro, Amad and Dorgu can both start as wing backs and Dalot will give you far more if you only play him for 45/60 mins in this role, he proved it against Liverpool.

Bruno cannot play CM next to Collyer or Ugarte, he’s not disciplined enough, we need Eriksen who could be the DLP with the added security of there CB’s, controlling the game for us.

Bruno, Garnaucho, Mainoo, plus we should Promote Biancheri and with Mount hopefully returning should be competing for the two number 10’s.

Zirkzee needs to start the next 3/4 games as CF with Rasmus coming on against tired legs.
 
AngeloHenriquez said:
The problem with that tactic as well is it means those two wingbacks that tuck in are just cramping that space and naturally defend more which forces the whole shape to be so deep and defensive - I do wonder what the average positions of our players would be vs his Sporting side.
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I'll be interested to see in a few games how Dorgu ends up playing that role, left or right. If your inverted wing backs were making runs into the box then they'd just be replicating the 10s function but right now using fullbacks they won't do that so it limits an attacking route. We still rely on taking the ball and running at defenders rather than passing the ball.

The average position maps are totally different, in his Sporting team the analysis I looked at had a nice diamond each side between CB-WB-DM-AM. Our WBs are too deep, our RCB too narrow, our DMs are all over the place and AM too wide. We aren't close to replicating the setup yet. I thought Dorgu and Amad looked more like it as they actually played close together and linked up.

It's not his tactics not working (they may or may not) it's the fact we aren't putting it into practice yet. It's going to take time, more so than many here want to give (aka two months).
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
when have we been cut open at will since Amorim came?! I'd be the first to admit that we haven't seen the kind of progress that we were hoping for, but this is one of the few areas where there has been a demonstrable improvement! What an odd comment to make.
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3 at home to Forest, Brighton and Bournemouth, 2 to Newcastle, Wolves, and Palace and 4 to Spurs

Most of these were at home as well
 
Gavinb33 said:
3 at home to Forest, Brighton and Bournemouth, 2 to Newcastle, Wolves, and Palace and 4 to Spurs

Most of these were at home as well
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I'm just going on the eye test, and to me we feel far less vulnerable to an absolute tonking than we were under Ten Hag. Nowadays when we lose it often seems to be down to not taking our chances and giving away silly goals. There were periods under Ten Hag when it felt like every time the opposition attacked they might score.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Does he really deserve much credit for it when Arsenal's woeful finishing (26 shots but only 7 on target) was the main reason we managed get to penalties?
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Do teams who beat United with goals from off target deflections get credit for beating us when Garnacho skies half a dozen chances in the same game - of course they do
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
I'm just going on the eye test, and to me we feel far less vulnerable to an absolute tonking than we were under Ten Hag. Nowadays when we lose it often seems to be down to not taking our chances and giving away silly goals. There were periods under Ten Hag when it felt like every time the opposition attacked they might score.
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Thats exactly how I see it... Anyone suggesting we were more solid before is only looking at goal against with the number under Amorim inflated by brainfarts and the corner missery. But I admit that the last part could have been handled better with specific corner training.
 
I am very optimistic that Amorin will come good with time and have faith in the plan. However if Dorgu is played on the right consistently and we haven't addressed the LWB issue with his only signing in this window I am questioning why he didn't go for an actual LWB.
 
deef said:
Thats exactly how I see it... Anyone suggesting we were more solid before is only looking at goal against with the number under Amorim inflated by brainfarts and the corner missery. But I admit that the last part could have been handled better with specific corner training.
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Absolutely, the corner situation is a joke and needs sorting ASAP.
 
Rusholme Ruffian said:
I'm just going on the eye test, and to me we feel far less vulnerable to an absolute tonking than we were under Ten Hag. Nowadays when we lose it often seems to be down to not taking our chances and giving away silly goals. There were periods under Ten Hag when it felt like every time the opposition attacked they might score.
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We did at the start I even commented on here we did and it showed in the goals against early on, but recently the goals against is stacking up and correct some of it is due to poor play form individuals but he has shown a reticence to drop anyone Onana especially Forest and Brighton he should've been out the team in my opinion.

We also have only kept one clean sheet during his tenure
 
Red Royal said:
I am very optimistic that Amorin will come good with time and have faith in the plan. However if Dorgu is played on the right consistently and we haven't addressed the LWB issue with his only signing in this window I am questioning why he didn't go for an actual LWB.
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We keep looking for a different excuse as none of us rate Dalot at LWB bar one game where he got at their full back constantly (Liverpool or Arsenal from memory?)

What would you draw from these facts? A manager plays a play in that position when fit consistently, buys someone capable of playing in that position but instead plays him at RWB (Which he is capable of) - The only logical conclusion is Amorim likes Dalot there.
 
Still think he might be the right guy (- his system) at the wrong time, think he's doing a poor job and I don't see much improvements. I still expect some improvements despite him not having his players yet.

I quite hate the system he plays, and can't really imagine United playing like this for the next 5 years or so. But I think it would be much worse to get rid of him and try again with a new manager on short term basis, that would just be terrible for the club and squad. I doubt the players would commit to any philosophy again.

I hope he builds a squad that is not too much dependent on 5221 and flexible for other systems, get in players with a better profile than EtH did, work on the culture at the club/first team and make us competitive again, winning some cups etc and back in/around top 4. If he is able to take us there again, move on to a scenario that can take us to the promised land. Not sure if it will be possible with Ineos.
 
"Players concerned style of play doesn't suit them" carries less weight in a context where almost every single player in the squad is utterly expendable.
 
As Jesse once said do not even, no no no. I've heard the players being concerned about the tactics, the methods and the system a few times too many.
 
So the system is at fault for their constant brain farts? Regardles of the formation they are doing the same mistkes for years now. It was before ETH, during ETH and now with Amorim. Bunch of absolute cnuts
 
Saddened to see him so troubled.

Little did he know when he arrived of the shower of shite he’d have to work with.
 
Any player that is having those talks shut be jettisoned immediately. I'm tired of this squad complaining the second a manager asks them to work hard. Obviously playing a style that "fits them" doesnt work.
 
Unless the journos are willing to put the players name to the claims, then it is hearsay and in my mind utter bullshit.

Anyone can write that tweet, and then ask the manager about it, without ever having to validate the original statement.

Bloody easy writing about United for a living.
 
Daily reminder that we'll start next season with at least 75% of those players. Amorim needs to find a solution for and with them
 
AjaxCunian said:
Still think he might be the right guy (- his system) at the wrong time, think he's doing a poor job and I don't see much improvements. I still expect some improvements despite him not having his players yet.

I quite hate the system he plays, and can't really imagine United playing like this for the next 5 years or so. But I think it would be much worse to get rid of him and try again with a new manager on short term basis, that would just be terrible for the club and squad. I doubt the players would commit to any philosophy again.

I hope he builds a squad that is not too much dependent on 5221 and flexible for other systems, get in players with a better profile than EtH did, work on the culture at the club/first team and make us competitive again, winning some cups etc and back in/around top 4. If he is able to take us there again, move on to a scenario that can take us to the promised land. Not sure if it will be possible with Ineos.
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The whole point of the system is that we can attack or defend with a 5 very quickly. We're really poor at it right now because we don't have the athleticism nor attacking prowess.

Maybe the system won't work, but I'd rather jettison as many of these players out of the club and give it a try first.
 
stepic said:
If you don’t have actual eyes that watch games, or have ever bothered to listen to Amorim himself, then I have a fair idea that you’re not going to listen to me. So I don’t think I’ll bother.

the doubling down is hilarious though.
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I can see what’s being served up on the pitch. It’s garbage and your non answer sums up your argument.

What isn’t hilarious is the football we’re playing and no amount of pseudo tactical expertise from internet coaches changes what’s happening on the pitch currently.
 
The Cat said:
They can all basically feck off if they think they are more important.
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Its true. Even though I would prefer adaptability from our coach it's just a fan opinion. Being a part of the playing squad feels like it's a bit different, they need to stick together through the managers system.

That being said I think it might only be one player feeding this information to a friendly, or, an ex player who has no problem giving MK a lowdown.
 
acnumber9 said:
I have no issue with style if it is effective and or entertaining. So far we’re seeing neither so if this is the style, we’re fecked.
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The question is, could it be with the right personnel?

It's a system which requires some very specific profiles, technical ability and athleticism. None of which we have.

The biggest problem we have is that we simply don't score enough goals. Our attacking players are really bad.
 
dubplate warrior said:
The question is, could it be with the right personnel?

It's a system which requires some very specific profiles, technical ability and athleticism. None of which we have.

The biggest problem we have is that we simply don't score enough goals. Our attacking players are really bad.
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Very possibly and we’ll only know in the long term. That doesn’t excuse how bad we currently are. Anybody claiming we would get worse following the change in manager is a liar.
 
RedSky said:
Could be just press bollocks. I really hope it's press bollocks, sick and tired of players thinking they know more than the Manager.
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Has to be. Its impossible that even after so many new players past few seasons, we hear this every time when there is a new manager.
Has to be some agenda from the press or our ex-players feeding something.

No other club in the world, does not matter what form they are in, has this kind of negativity and I highly doubt it is coming from majority of players.
 
RedSky said:
Could be just press bollocks. I really hope it's press bollocks, sick and tired of players thinking they know more than the Manager.
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As usual I suspect that it's the press twisting the truth. But it's important to note that players know what works and most impostantly what doesn't work with them. I mentioned it numerous times because it's a high profile example but the case of Klose being unable to apply LVG's instructions on the field even he understood them on tape simply because he couldn't see the sequences on the field. People and some managers tend to forget that players aren't robots, you can't fully program or reprogram them to your ideas, you almost always have to make a step or several step in their direction. And it's also as important to know what they can't do or what they struggle to do than it is to understand what they can do. You hide the former and emphasize the latter.
 
JPRouve said:
As usual I suspect that it's the press twisting the truth. But it's important to note that players know what works and most impostantly what doesn't work with them. I mentioned it numerous times because it's a high profile example but the case of Klose being unable to apply LVG's instructions on the field even he understood them on tape simply because he couldn't see the sequences on the field. People and some managers tend to forget that players aren't robots, you can't fully program or reprogram them to your ideas, you almost always have to make a step or several step in their direction. And it's also as important to know what they can't do or what they struggle to do than it is to understand what they can do. You hide the former and emphasize the latter.
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That's a valid point although a lot of our players have shown an inability to pass, press, cross or shoot in multiple systems.
 
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