The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Neutral said:
Well...this is a shock!

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:lol: What you mean the saviour of the world and the second coming of the Messiah couldn't fix the "really easy" problems in the Middle East? Are we to take this as the fact that Jared won't be able to do anything Trump said he could?

Are we due another "who knew it could be so complicated" Tweet from Trump as well?
 
langster said:
:lol: What you mean the saviour of the world and the second coming of the Messiah couldn't fix the "really easy" problems in the Middle East? Are we to take this as the fact that Jared won't be able to do anything Trump said he could?

Are we due another "who knew it could be so complicated" Tweet from Trump as well?
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It takes a special kind of stupid and lack of awareness to think you can walk into the Middle East and solve it. Although he's probably so stupid that he doesn't understand the nuances of the region and genuinely thought it'd be a piece of cake.
 
Hope the media doesn't go chasing down rabbit holes when they should be keeping their eyes on the big issues like healthcare, jobs, economy, etc
 
utdalltheway said:
Hope the media doesn't go chasing down rabbit holes when they should be keeping their eyes on the big issues like healthcare, jobs, economy, etc
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They already have IMO.

If/when GOP get enough votes to pass this cruel abomination of wealth shift from poor to rich, the media will have blood on its hands.
 
the media pretty much is now focusing on this health care bill.
Every vote for it will be brought back at every election against each of the senator who voted for it.
They and every congressman who voted for the bill will pay a price.

For the sake of the needy, I sincerely hope it fails. The states that do not have their own health exchanges will be the first to suffer, should it pass.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I just cant wrap my head around the medical cost in the US. I had a relative who had to undergone multiple surgeries following a traffic accident about 7-8 years back. It ended up costing about ~ 6k USD. Granted, the annual income is much lower there but 10 times the cost? It's not like the machinery involved are that much different.
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There are a lot of things involved in the price a doctor or hospital charges in the U.S. Because you can file a lawsuit at a drop of a hat here, doctors have to pay about eqivalent of a third world countries GDP for malpractice insurance. You also have to add the huge expenses occurred while studying at a University and medical school. Also, if a patient is unable to pay, doctors will have to eventually take a loss and give up if the debt is unrecoverable. It definately is not fair, but I thought I would explain why the bills are so high. Only solution to this craziness is to have universal healthcare coverage for everyone, but good luck with that when the politicians pockets are being filled by insurance companies and pharmaceuticals.
 
Sky1981 said:
I've said it before, I'll say it again.

You can crap on americans, the russians, obama, hillary, martians, but you dont feck with healthcare in america.

If this bill passes there could be catastrophical backlash.
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Now that millions more have some sort of healthcare coverage with Obamacare, if they lose that under the new bill that they are trying to introduce, you'll hear more attacks on politicians like what happend in Alexandria, VA. But @Neutral is right, over decades, politicians have ingrained it into the minds of Americans that universal healthcare if evil.
 
MrMarcello said:
John King called Fox & Friends "State TV" and TYT ran a few segments backing up the statement with evidence.

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Fox and Friends is worse than RT. You would've thought those charlatans would've gotten a clue after O'Reilly left and Hannity was on the ropes. Maybe someone can buy Fox and make it normal channel.
 
ghagua said:
Now that millions more have some sort of healthcare coverage with Obamacare, if they lose that under the new bill that they are trying to introduce, you'll hear more attacks on politicians like what happend in Alexandria, VA. But @Neutral is right, over decades, politicians have ingrained it into the minds of Americans that universal healthcare if evil.
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Im not talking about attacks or so, more like daily implication when poorer people who can't afford insurance stop getting free medicals. We all know the big majority of americans can't afford going to doctor without insurance with their enormous price.

The medical parties definitely won't want to cut their cost
 
Raoul said:
Fox and Friends is worse than RT. You would've thought those charlatans would've gotten a clue after O'Reilly left and Hannity was on the ropes. Maybe someone can buy Fox and make it normal channel.
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They got a clue alright, from higher up.

Its standard Fox. Have a semi respectable news crew to maintain some sort of credibility and flood the other programs with blatant propaganda to curry favours with the right (or dictate the agenda it want them to follow)
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
They got a clue alright, from higher up.

Its standard Fox. Have a semi respectable news crew to maintain some sort of credibility and flood the other programs with blatant propaganda to curry favours with the right (or dictate the agenda it want them to follow)
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Apparently Trump talks to Murdoch regularly so its obviously coordinated.
 
Neutral said:
Ummm no. That might be the case in the UK with the NHS.

In this country - people have a really weird acceptance of the system. Universal care...socialized medicine...EVIL!

That's why something that was merely step 1 such as the ACA got the reaction it did. There are millions who will literally feck themselves over because of stupid dogmatic beliefs.
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Can't agree more with this post.
 
Neutral said:
Ummm no. That might be the case in the UK with the NHS.

In this country - people have a really weird acceptance of the system. Universal care...socialized medicine...EVIL!

That's why something that was merely step 1 such as the ACA got the reaction it did. There are millions who will literally feck themselves over because of stupid dogmatic beliefs.
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More complicated than that I think:

A recent survey from the Economist/YouGov found that a majority of Americans support “expanding Medicare to provide health insurance to every American.” Similarly, a poll from Morning Consult/Politico showed that a plurality of voters support “a single payer health care system, where all Americans would get their health insurance from one government plan.”

Divining the longer-term trend in attitudes toward this idea is difficult, as the way survey questions on the topic are asked has changed over time. Views of a health-care system in which all Americans get their insurance from the government single payer vary a lot depending on how you frame the question. Calling it “Medicare for all,” for example, generally elicits much stronger approval, while emphasizing the word “government” tends to depress support.


But at the very least, some survey questions that have remained consistent in recent years show support has been rising back up over the past few years for the broader idea that the federal government bears responsibility for making sure all Americans have health-care coverage.
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My wife is really concerned about this new bill. She sees people every day in the ICU who are racking up ridiculous medical bills.

To give an idea of how much an ICU stay costs...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15942342/

She knows that there will be people she's treating now who, if this bill were in effect now, would basically not be able to have care and would die.

Edit to add: the irony of a lot of it is that most of her patients are Trump supporters (they tell her these things). As @Neutral said - they're literally screwing themselves by electing these people and they're too ignorant to realize it
 
Carolina Red said:
My wife is really concerned about this new bill. She sees people every day in the ICU who are racking up ridiculous medical bills.

To give an idea of how much an ICU stay costs...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15942342/

She knows that there will be people she's treating now who, if this bill were in effect now, would basically not be able to have care and would die.

Edit to add: the irony of a lot of it is that most of her patients are Trump supporters (they tell her these things). As @Neutral said - they're literally screwing themselves by electing these people and they're too ignorant to realize it
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There's no way this will pass, its political suicide.
 
In the end, it'll be hard for Republicans to vote no for the bill. They've campaigned a lot on repealing ACA and this is their shot. Although shutting down healthcare for many people is a risk, not doing anything about ACA is a greater risk considering how unpopular it is amongst the people who voted them in. Yes, a small portion of voters don't know ACA is different from Obamacare but there's a huge population out there who think healthcare is a social evil and communism. The same people also own car insurance, but somehow it just doesn't connect. Even people who greatly benefit from having a safety net like ACA think they are wasting their dollars to subsidize costs for people who don't work.
 
fishfingers15 said:
In the end, it'll be hard for Republicans to vote no for the bill. They've campaigned a lot on repealing ACA and this is their shot. Although shutting down healthcare for many people is a risk, not doing anything about ACA is a greater risk considering how unpopular it is amongst the people who voted them in. Yes, a small portion of voters don't know ACA is different from Obamacare but there's a huge population out there who think healthcare is a social evil and communism. The same people also own car insurance, but somehow it just doesn't connect. Even people who greatly benefit from having a safety net like ACA think they are wasting their dollars to subsidize costs for people who don't work.
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good post.
 
fishfingers15 said:
In the end, it'll be hard for Republicans to vote no for the bill. They've campaigned a lot on repealing ACA and this is their shot. Although shutting down healthcare for many people is a risk, not doing anything about ACA is a greater risk considering how unpopular it is amongst the people who voted them in. Yes, a small portion of voters don't know ACA is different from Obamacare but there's a huge population out there who think healthcare is a social evil and communism. The same people also own car insurance, but somehow it just doesn't connect. Even people who greatly benefit from having a safety net like ACA think they are wasting their dollars to subsidize costs for people who don't work.
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That would be true if it was a decent bill. In its current guise, there are four conservatives who have problems with it not being severe enough and 3 who have problems that its too extreme. If you give way to one, the other become more firmly entrenched that they will vote no.

Cruz I think will vote yes since he's a complete charlatan who is milking this for attention. Lee will probably vote yes as well, as will Johnson. Paul is a big wildcard.

On the other side, Collins and Heller will almost certainly vote no and Murkowski isn't far behind. And that's not even counting other Republicans who haven't really weighed in yet. In AZ where I am, the commercials are coming hard and fast against Jeff Flake to vote no. There may be others.
 
Raoul said:
That would be true if it was a decent bill. In its current guise, there are four conservatives who have problems with it not being severe enough and 3 who have problems that its too extreme. If you give way to one, the other become more firmly entrenched that they will vote no.

Cruz I think will vote yes since he's a complete charlatan who is milking this for attention. Lee will probably vote yes as well, as will Johnson. Paul is a big wildcard.

On the other side, Collins and Heller will almost certainly vote no and Murkowski isn't far behind. And that's not even counting other Republicans who haven't really weighed in yet. In AZ where I am, the commercials are coming hard and fast against Jeff Flake to vote no. There may be others.
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Any bill would never be decent. Moderate Republicans will want medicaid untouched, staunch conservatives will want all restrictions taken away. It'll have to be a compromise between the two groups. They've done the obvious thing and given control to States to opt in/out. Both these groups won't be happy but ultimately, both will sign on in the end. They have Pence as a tie breaker and they can afford two senators. I'm betting one would be from the staunch conservative group and one token protest vote from either Collins/Murkowski. If your single vote brought down the repeal of ACA after 8 years of hot air, said person's GOP career is already in tatters. I don't think anybody would want to be that person. Even the two no's would be just coordinated protest votes like DeVos confirmation. Just move alone, nothing to see here.

Time has come for the Democrats to decide what they want to do. They can go big on targeting the center votes and hope their far left will fan in place (status quo) or go single payer and hope the independents and minorities will vote en masse for them, not just in 2020 but in 2018 and all local and state elections. Status quo didn't work for them last election, so there's that.
 
Raoul said:
That would be true if it was a decent bill. In its current guise, there are four conservatives who have problems with it not being severe enough and 3 who have problems that its too extreme. If you give way to one, the other become more firmly entrenched that they will vote no.

Cruz I think will vote yes since he's a complete charlatan who is milking this for attention. Lee will probably vote yes as well, as will Johnson. Paul is a big wildcard.

On the other side, Collins and Heller will almost certainly vote no and Murkowski isn't far behind. And that's not even counting other Republicans who haven't really weighed in yet. In AZ where I am, the commercials are coming hard and fast against Jeff Flake to vote no. There may be others.
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Murkowski? have not heard anything from her yet?

agree about the 3 charlatans imo.
Whoever is the 3rd senator who votes no will be treated as a traitor by the party. So it will take guts.
So Paul may well give in.

Portman from Ohio perhaps? He may back his governor.

Its more likely to pass imo. I hope I am wrong.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Any bill would never be decent. Moderate Republicans will want medicaid untouched, staunch conservatives will want all restrictions taken away. It'll have to be a compromise between the two groups. They've done the obvious thing and given control to States to opt in/out. Both these groups won't be happy but ultimately, both will sign on in the end. They have Pence as a tie breaker and they can afford two senators. I'm betting one would be from the staunch conservative group and one token protest vote from either Collins/Murkowski. If your single vote brought down the repeal of ACA after 8 years of hot air, said person's GOP career is already in tatters. I don't think anybody would want to be that person. Even the two no's would be just coordinated protest votes like DeVos confirmation. Just move alone, nothing to see here.

Time has come for the Democrats to decide what they want to do. They can go big on targeting the center votes and hope their far left will fan in place (status quo) or go single payer and hope the independents and minorities will vote en masse for them, not just in 2020 but in 2018 and all local and state elections. Status quo didn't work for them last election, so there's that.
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medicare for all is the only option for the Dems, not ObamaCare II
 
Red Dreams said:
Murkowski? have not heard anything from her yet?

agree about the 3 charlatans imo.
Whoever is the 3rd senator who votes no will be treated as a traitor by the party. So it will take guts.
So Paul may well give in.

Portman from Ohio perhaps? He may back his governor.

Its more likely to pass imo. I hope I am wrong.
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Yeah this bill would affect a lot of her constituents.
 
Sigma said:
There's no way this will pass, its political suicide.
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1. They can't oppose raising the debt limit, it's a political suicide
2. They can't shut down the government, it's a political suicide
3. They can't oppose expanding background checks on gun purchases, it's a political suicide
4. They can't oppose immigration reform, it's a political suicide
5. They can't oppose Merrick Garland for SCOTUS, it's a political suicide
6. They can't nominate Trump, it's a political suicide

And now this.

We have been here before, and they won almost all the time. Why? Because Republicans vote, and Democrats don't!
 
fishfingers15 said:
They should also spend 50 million on new voter id registrations where voting is becoming tough for the underprivileged instead of spending it on guys like Ossoff.
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no arguments.

medicare for all is not just morally the right thing to do. It will be an absolute winning strategy for the Dems to take back the house. Medicare works and people love it. Many cant wait to get to 65. Crazy is it not?
Running as a centrist is a losing strategy and should be immediately discarded.
But we are talking about the DNC :rolleyes:
 
ManUtd1999 said:
1. They can't oppose raising the debt limit, it's a political suicide
2. They can't shut down the government, it's a political suicide
3. They can't oppose expanding background checks on gun purchases, it's a political suicide
4. They can't oppose immigration reform, it's a political suicide
5. They can't oppose Merrick Garland for SCOTUS, it's a political suicide
6. They can't nominate Trump, it's a political suicide

And now this.

We have been here before, and they won almost all the time. Why? Because Republicans vote, and Democrats don't!
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Absolutely. Somehow that withered cock from Kentucky is going to be praised as some sort of political genius.
 
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