Zlatan Ibrahimovic

[stevoc]

You are saying he's reaching great goalscoring/assist stats(he equaled Messi's numbers in 13-14 both in terms of assists/goals with the same amount of games) because the french league is masking his inabilities. Yet he performs at every other stage there is in the CL/international football - which shows that you are exaggerating that point.

There are players who perform in weak leagues, but they'll be called out as they can't produce that form in the CL or for their national team.

He reached his peak in 11-12 after Allegri convinced him to change his game from trying to play beautiful to play just effective. So only stats since then are of any value to the discussion as he was clearly very overrated before that and the only one who thought he was great was himself.

Since then he's the third best goalscorer in European football, the best goalscorer in international football, he's won the assist league in the CL, he was the 2nd best top scorer in the CL the season after that ahead of Messi/Costa/Aguero.

Listen mate again no where have i said he wasn't or hasn't been a great player, and those 2013-14 CL stats are very impressive he obviously hit a purple patch that year, although he didn't hit those numbers before or since.

But heres the crux of my point, he is 34 in 2-3 months. Do you see him playing 40-50 games and scoring 30-40 goals for United in the Premier League?

Because i don't, he like every other player in the history of football when they hit 34 is in decline. Playing in france has clearly suited him and allowed him to rack up stats i doubt he would have been able to achieve in England, Spain or Germany.

For the salary he would command on a 2-3 year contract and the ego that comes with him it would be terrible business for United.

 

[United22]

Well i did say he averaged 15-25 goals a season which is pretty much true, if i was being pedantic i could say he actually averaged 14.5 goals per season over his career before PSG if you divide his goals by the number of seasons. But that would be unfair on him to include his early years at Malmo and Ajax.

Listen he was a great in his time but that time has gone, i would imagine he could score 10-15 for us. Mostly because at his age i don't see him playing more than 15-25 games in England, if we wanted a player to do that we could have kept RVP.

Also theres a thread to discuss Rooney, this isn't the place.

That isn't being pedantic, its called being an idiot. Where is the logic behind including his early years at Malmo and Ajax but not including PSG? The Swedish League is basically garbage... He is has averaged 21 goals per season since playing in the top leagues (this would be counted as only the top couple of leagues in the UEFA rankings) over the last 9 years. To say he would score 10 for us upfront us embarrassing, hopefully you mean if he was to play a bit part role swapping the strikers with Rooney (and not if he was the main ST)

 

[stevoc]

That isn't being pedantic, its called being an idiot. Where is the logic behind including his early years at Malmo and Ajax but not including PSG? The Swedish League is basically garbage... He is has averaged 21 goals per season since playing in the top leagues (this would be counted as only the top couple of leagues in the UEFA rankings) over the last 9 years. To say he would score 10 for us upfront us embarrassing, hopefully you mean if he was to play a bit part role swapping the strikers with Rooney (and not if he was the main ST)

Nice do you often call people with differing opinions idiots? You are aware of the forum rules regarding insulting other posters?

Of course the irony here is it seems you didn't even read my post properly. Heres it again with a few parts highlighted so it's easier to understand.

Well i did say he averaged 15-25 goals a season which is pretty much true, if i was being pedantic i could say he actually averaged 14.5 goals per season over his career before PSG if you divide his goals by the number of seasons. But that would be unfair on him to include his early years at Malmo and Ajax.

Where is the logic behind including his early years at Malmo and Ajax but not including PSG?

Sigh ok i will explain it then, my point was and the one we are discussing is i think playing in a weak league in France for PSG has boosted his stats. So why would i include those years in France when i was comparing those years to his earlier years in Italy and Spain. You do see how that would make no sense don't you?

 

[Annahnomoss]

Sigh ok i will explain it then, my point was and the one we are discussing is i think playing in a weak league in France for PSG has boosted his stats. So why would i include those years in France when i was comparing those years to his earlier years in Italy and Spain. You do see how that would make no sense don't you?

The problem is that you can't compare it like that when the player reached his peak in the last season for Milan and then maintained it for PSG. The other seasons are useless to compare to as he wasn't half the player when he played for Barcelona/Juventus. Like I said he changed as a player thanks to Allegri in 2011-12 and then reached his peak.

You can't remove the peak years of a player and then summarize his pre-peak career and draw some conclusion of how good he would be now. I would never want him at United, but your argument is pretty damn off. It is like removing Robben's years at Bayern because they are too dominant - but we also remove his CL/Holland performances for no reason.

Then we judge him on his Madrid/Chelsea career and decide he's too injury prone and inconsistent to perform in a less dominant team.

Last four years, including CL/Sweden.
2011-12 - 50 matches - 39 goals - 13 assists
2012-13 - 59 matches - 47 goals - 18 assists
2013-14 - 54 matches - 50 goals - 14 assists
2014-15 - 38 matches - 31 goals - 6 assists

 

[United22]

Nice do you often call people with differing opinions idiots? You are aware of the forum rules regarding insulting other posters?

Of course the irony here is it seems you didn't even read my post properly. Heres it again with a few parts highlighted so it's easier to understand.





Sigh ok i will explain it then, my point was and the one we are discussing is i think playing in a weak league in France for PSG has boosted his stats. So why would i include those years in France when i was comparing those years to his earlier years in Italy and Spain. You do see how that would make no sense don't you?

I haven't insulted anyone, if you took offence to that then its your choice. You haven't read what I was saying either. Being pedantic in this case would at least take his average over the top leagues and the 'non' top leagues (basically anything that isn't BPL, La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A) , so taking Malmo and even Ajax (where he was nowhere near his prime) into account when calculating his average goals (whilst excluding PSG) makes no sense. This "pedantic" average would then probably lie around 18 goals. You are basically skewering data (ignoring his prime stats in a weak league but including his poorer stats in a weak league during his younger years) to make it look like he could be a below 15 goals a season striker on average.

Truth is, to suggest Zlatan could possibly end up scoring 10 goals a season for us is purely mental, especially when a useless Drogba scored 7 goals last season for Chelsea. @Annahnomoss above has it spot on with the 2nd bit of his post...

 

[stevoc]

The problem is that you can't compare it like that when the player reached his peak in the last season for Milan and then maintained it for PSG. The other seasons are useless to compare to as he wasn't half the player when he played for Barcelona/Juventus. Like I said he changed as a player thanks to Allegri in 2011-12 and then reached his peak.

You can't remove the peak years of a player and then summarize his pre-peak career and draw some conclusion of how good he would be now. I would never want him at United, but your argument is pretty damn off. It is like removing Robben's years at Bayern because they are too dominant - but we also remove his CL/Holland performances for no reason.

Then we judge him on his Madrid/Chelsea career and decide he's too injury prone and inconsistent to perform in a less dominant team.

Last four years, including CL/Sweden.
2011-12 - 50 matches - 39 goals - 13 assists
2012-13 - 59 matches - 47 goals - 18 assists
2013-14 - 54 matches - 50 goals - 14 assists
2014-15 - 38 matches - 31 goals - 6 assists

Listen mate i am not removing his years in France at all. I am comparing his average goal tally's in France to his averages before PSG in Italy and Spain. Thats a perfectly valid thing to do they are much stronger leagues than France.

His last 3 years in France may well be his peak who knows, but personally i doubt he would have been as good in England, Spain or Italy as he has been for PSG.

 

[stevoc]

I haven't insulted anyone, if you took offence to that then its your choice.

I'm not offended at all if i was i would have reported the post. FYI calling someone an idiot is usually considered an insult.

You haven't read what I was saying either. Being pedantic in this case would at least take his average over the top leagues and the 'non' top leagues (basically anything that isn't BPL, La Liga, Bundesliga or Serie A) , so taking Malmo and even Ajax (where he was nowhere near his prime) into account when calculating his average goals (whilst excluding PSG) makes no sense. This "pedantic" average would then probably lie around 18 goals

You are obviously having problems understanding this, to be honest it's getting tedious having to explain.

I wasn't being pedantic, i said if. I didn't include his years in Malmo or Ajax, i specifically said it would be unfair to do so when calculating his average. So what the feck are you going on about?

You are basically skewering data (ignoring his prime stats in a weak league but including his poorer stats in a weak league during his younger years) to make it look like he could be a below 15 goals a season striker on average.

Jesus are you on a fecking wind up? I didn't include his years at Ajax or Malmo when i said he averaged 15-25 goals per season.

I am not skewing his stats or ignoring his years in france. I was comparing his goal averages before he went to france with his averages at PSG.

How the feck could i make such a comparison by including his goals in france? That makes no sense.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Listen mate i am not removing his years in France at all. I am comparing his average goal tally's in France to his averages before PSG in Italy and Spain. Thats a perfectly valid thing to do they are much stronger leagues than France.

His last 3 years in France may well be his peak who knows, but personally i doubt he would have been as good in England, Spain or Italy as he has been for PSG.

He already reached his peak for Milan and showed he was equally good there.
2011-12 - 50 matches - 39 goals - 13 assists

Why don't you just look at his performances for Sweden/CL alone the last four years instead to try and make up your mind on how he plays? Highest assists in the CL 2012-13, 2nd top scorer the year after with 10 goals in 8 matches and his performances for Sweden has been as good, if not better, than his PSG performances.

It seems like you have decided your conclusion and now you're looking for ways to justify those results. Like I showed with Robben, you can find weird excuses for almost every player to reach any conclusion you want.

 

[stevoc]

He already reached his peak for Milan and showed he was equally good there.
2011-12 - 50 matches - 39 goals - 13 assists

Wikipedia says 35 for Milan that season but no matter it may be wrong.

Why don't you just look at his performances for Sweden/CL alone the last four years instead to try and make up your mind on how he plays? Highest assists in the CL 2012-13, 2nd top scorer the year after with 10 goals in 8 matches and his performances for Sweden has been as good, if not better, than his PSG performances.

It seems like you have decided your conclusion and now you're looking for ways to justify those results. Like I showed with Robben, you can find weird excuses for almost every player to reach any conclusion you want.

I personally never factor in international performances when judging a player, some players play much better/worse for their country than they do at club level. For example Robbie Keane has a comparable scoring record for Ireland but he obviously wasn't nearly as good a player as Ibra.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Wikipedia says 35 for Milan that season but no matter it may be wrong.



I personally never factor in international performances when judging a player, some players play much better/worse for their country than they do at club level. For example Robbie Keane has a comparable scoring record for Ireland but he obviously wasn't nearly as good a player as Ibra.

What I said was for all of his games the entire season, I.e Sweden as well.

And the CL games? Winning the top assist award in the CL doesn't count? Scoring 10 goals in 8 matches?

Robbie Keane doesn't have nearly a similar ratio of goals for Ireland as Zlatan has had in his peak the last four years for Sweden. His best four season period in his career has him at 21 goals in 35 matches.

I made a long post about it earlier where I calculated all the top players goalscoring ratio's for their international teams. Zlatan has scored 28 goals in 28 matches the last four years for Sweden, a 1:1 ratio for one of the weaker national sides.

Nobody, not Ronaldo or even Messi have that sort of ratio in this time frame.

 

[stevoc]

What I said was for all of his games the entire season, I.e Sweden as well.

Ah fair enough mate my mistake. The way you worded i thought you meant 39 for Milan.

Robbie Keane doesn't have nearly a similar ratio of goals for Ireland as Zlatan has had in his peak the last four years for Sweden. His best four season period in his career has him at 21 goals in 35 matches.

If you only count the last 4 years no they dont', Ibra has 28 in 28 and Keane has 20 in 33. But then why are we only counting the last 4 years, bit unfair that on Keane. Over their international careers their records are comparable. They both have roughly 1 in 2 record, though Zlatans is slightly better.

International scoring records are largely irrelevant when judging a player at club level though i feel. Case in point Keanes record for Ireland is much better than his club record.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Ah fair enough mate my mistake. The way you worded i thought you meant 39 for Milan.



If you only count the last 4 years no they dont', Ibra has 28 in 28 and Keane has 20 in 33. But then why are we only counting the last 4 years, bit unfair that on Keane. Over their international careers their records are comparable. They both have roughly 1 in 2 record, though Zlatans is slightly better.

International scoring records are largely irrelevant when judging a player at club level though i feel. Case in point Keanes record for Ireland is much better than his club record.

In Zlatans case it is because he was a much worse player earlier and took a very large step up from working with Allegri. Everybody knows that Zlatan was a big headed player who wasn't good enough for the biggest leagues and somehow he floated around in big clubs and won a lot of league titles anyhow and became overrated.

But now that he has reached his peak and kept it up for 4 years, it is very silly to bring the other statistics in to it. They have no relevance considering the major steps the player has taken since it happened.

I get that you are trying to figure out at what level Zlatan is and I think you will be much better of watching compilations of his last 4 years to complement the statistics provided in this thread. We are plenty of Swedes on the forum who can tell you about how he has played for the international team as well.

It would be a more accurate way of doing it, than the formula you are using as of now. I'd have to add that Serie-A was pretty crap as well through his years there.

 

[stevoc]

In Zlatans case it is because he was a much worse player earlier and took a very large step up from working with Allegri. Everybody knows that Zlatan was a big headed player who wasn't good enough for the biggest leagues and somehow he floated around in big clubs and won a lot of league titles anyhow and became overrated.

But now that he has reached his peak and kept it up for 4 years, it is very silly to bring the other statistics in to it. They have no relevance considering the major steps the player has taken since it happened.

I get that you are trying to figure out at what level Zlatan is and I think you will be much better of watching compilations of his last 4 years to complement the statistics provided in this thread. We are plenty of Swedes on the forum who can tell you about how he has played for the international team as well.

It would be a more accurate way of doing it, than the formula you are using as of now. I'd have to add that Serie-A was pretty crap as well through his years there.

I appreciate the info you are giving me here mate it's definitely giving me a better picture on Ibrahimovic and i may well be wrong on Zlatan i accept that. But even if i am underrating his last 4 years and i accept that has been the peak of his career.

Well even in that case i very much doubt he would maintain level after moving to a new club in a more physically demanding and much more competitive league at almost 34.

Am i being unreasonable, do you think he would maintain that form or play as many games and score as many goals at United?

 

[Annahnomoss]

I appreciate the info you are giving me here mate it's definitely giving me a better picture on Ibrahimovic and i may well be wrong on Zlatan i accept that. But even if i am underrating his last 4 years and i accept that has been the peak of his career.

Well even in that case i very much doubt he would maintain level after moving to a new club in a more physically demanding and much more competitive league at almost 34.

Am i being unreasonable, do you think he would maintain that form or play as many games and score as many goals at United?

I don't want him at United. We already have Rooney who is a brilliant playmaking striker as well, but he's not getting the chance to act as a playmaking striker as LVG doesn't really use that. He prefers a pure 9 who pulls the centre backs around in a tactical manner while providing link up play and runs behind the defense.

Zlatan would be pretty shit in such a role and he'd never do the defense job that Rooney did against Barcelona for example.

Like you say he's 34 years old and at that age you have to be mental to buy an outfield player unless they are more or less free and can be considered a bonus that way. I think he will have another strong season, more like the last one than the 3 years before that though. But it is a huge risk to have a player like Zlatan in your team, even for PSG, as he's a creative and playmaking striker and they have no back-up for that.

Cavani has been terrible for PSG when Ibra has been gone and he's had the shot to make it centrally. They suit two completely different formations and the one that is tailor-made for Zlatan is a very poor fit for Cavani.

I prefer seeing him in another team. It is a lot easier to appreciate what he actually does then without having to worry about the decline. His personality is good for a star player, but the second he isn't one he'll be a drama to have at the club.

 

[stevoc]

I don't want him at United. We already have Rooney who is a brilliant playmaking striker as well, but he's not getting the chance to act as a playmaking striker as LVG doesn't really use that. He prefers a pure 9 who pulls the centre backs around in a tactical manner while providing link up play and runs behind the defense.

Zlatan would be pretty shit in such a role and he'd never do the defense job that Rooney did against Barcelona for example.

Like you say he's 34 years old and at that age you have to be mental to buy an outfield player unless they are more or less free and can be considered a bonus that way. I think he will have another strong season, more like the last one than the 3 years before that though. But it is a huge risk to have a player like Zlatan in your team, even for PSG, as he's a creative and playmaking striker and they have no back-up for that.

Cavani has been terrible for PSG when Ibra has been gone and he's had the shot to make it centrally. They suit two completely different formations and the one that is tailor-made for Zlatan is a very poor fit for Cavani.

I prefer seeing him in another team. It is a lot easier to appreciate what he actually does then without having to worry about the decline. His personality is good for a star player, but the second he isn't one he'll be a drama to have at the club.

Interesting stuff agree with pretty much everything there, good points on Rooney also.

One thing we definitely agree on though is it just wouldn't make sense for United to sign Ibra now.

I would have loved us to sign him a few years ago in his late 20's, he was always one of those players i was interested in seeing how they would adapt to english football. Sadly though that ship has sailed.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

I would be suprised if zlatan was so reliant on age. The way he plays football is normally dependant on first touch rather than speed.

Either way, a player like him must know his place. If he is happy being 2nd fiddle to rooney instead of say cavani at psg; then anyone who doesnt want him are just plain foolish.

 

[United22]

I'm not offended at all if i was i would have reported the post. FYI calling someone an idiot is usually considered an insult.



You are obviously having problems understanding this, to be honest it's getting tedious having to explain.

I wasn't being pedantic, i said if. I didn't include his years in Malmo or Ajax, i specifically said it would be unfair to do so when calculating his average. So what the feck are you going on about?



I wasn't being pedantic, i said if. I didn't include his years in Malmo or Ajax, i specifically said it would be unfair to do so when calculating his average. So what the feck are you going on about?

I know you didn't obviously. You said if you were then you would have, then you actually did calculate it anyway and came up with some figure like 15 goals. You basically did it just to make it look like there is potentially a way that it could look like he was a 15 goal per season striker before he went to the French League, but acknowledged it wouldn't be fair to do so, so fair enough...

Jesus are you on a fecking wind up? I didn't include his years at Ajax or Malmo when i said he averaged 15-25 goals per season.

I am not skewing his stats or ignoring his years in france. I was comparing his goal averages before he went to france with his averages at PSG.

How the feck could i make such a comparison by including his goals in france? That makes no sense.

I know you didn't include his years at Ajax or Malmo, but your average range for the goals he has scored in the top leagues is ridiculously large, especially to start from 15, when he has been scoring 20+ for god knows how many years. It is simple, his average goals without taking PSG into account is 21, with PSG is 25. Truth is, to say he would score 10-15 goals for us as a striker is ridiculous and criminally underrating him.

 

[7even]

Two days ago I saw PSG against Chelsea and Ibra was without a doubt one of the best players on the pitch, if not the best. In this game he played as an advanced midfielder or a playmaking "10". His new role suited him very well. His exceptional physique and first touch made him a beast even in this position. There were a 50/50 duel with Matic when he just pushed his opponent away (similar to the Zlatan/Terry clash in Stockholm) and controlled the ball like as nothing happened.

I'm not sure if this is his preferred position but he was very effective and more or less controlled the game with his vision and excellent passes.

Even at 34 years old Zlatan is a monster of player. Not many in his calibre at this age. I don't know if LvG wants him or not but mark my words this man could rock Old Trafford the same way another french player did 20 years ago.

 

[sun_tzu]

Even at 34 years old Zlatan is a monster of player. Not many in his calibre at this age. I don't know if LvG wants him or not but mark my words this man could rock Old Trafford the same way another french player did 20 years ago.

I know he plays for PSG... but I don't think that makes him French

 

[stevoc]

I know you didn't include his years at Ajax or Malmo, but your average range for the goals he has scored in the top leagues is ridiculously large, especially to start from 15, when he has been scoring 20+ for god knows how many years. It is simple, his average goals without taking PSG into account is 21, with PSG is 25.

Because in general thats the range of goals he has scored over his career after Ajax and prior to moving to France. Looking at his stats just at Juve, Inter, Barca and AC (which is the period i used to get my average range) he scored the following.

Juve - 16,10
Inter - 15,22,29
Barca - 21
Milan - 21,35

So i don't think i was being unfair to him to say on average he scored between 15-25 per season in this period, obviously there are one or two seasons where he scored 35 or 10 but those were the exceptions in this period in his career.

If you were to take all his goals in this period and divide by the number of seasons it actually comes out at 18.8 average goals per season, but seeing as he usually scored more than this and the season he only scored 10 at Juve was bringing down his average, i chose not to use this number and instead use the 15-25 range. How was i being unfair?

Truth is, to say he would score 10-15 goals for us as a striker is ridiculous and criminally underrating him.

Maybe i am underrating him, but when i said i thought he would score 10-15 goals for us thats because i don't think he would play more than 20-25 games a year at United which would still be a very good strike rate.

Lets not forget he's almost 34 age catches up with everyone hes not superhuman. Moving to a new club and much more competitive league which is also more physically demanding than France or Italy in his mid 30's, do you really think he would play 40-50 games for us. I just don't see how that would happen personally.

 

[crossy1686]

If Zlatan is available on a free and could come in as backup (he would never go for that but..), he could do a pretty decent job for a season or two. Would be worth a punt.

 

[stevoc]

If Zlatan is available on a free and could come in as backup (he would never go for that but..), he could do a pretty decent job for a season or two. Would be worth a punt.

As a player he would be a great back up, but he would still be looking for a massive salary.

 

[Annahnomoss]

Interesting stuff agree with pretty much everything there, good points on Rooney also.

One thing we definitely agree on though is it just wouldn't make sense for United to sign Ibra now.

I would have loved us to sign him a few years ago in his late 20's, he was always one of those players i was interested in seeing how they would adapt to english football. Sadly though that ship has sailed.

I never liked him as a player until Allegri and him managed to turn his career around. So I wouldn't have wanted him at United in his career as nobody could have expected him to keep this type of form. PSG got lucky and bought him after one season at Milan, when he was a one season wonder who randomly started playing as a true world class player.

I am sure he would score a similar amount of goals in comparison to the teams ratio in the Premier League as he does it for Sweden too and we usually play teams of similar or even a big superior quality. He has shown that it doesn't matter if he plays for PSG in the CL, he can create the most assists in a year or score 10 goals in 8 matches in the other.

But defensively he's bad, no two ways about that, he defends almost as lazy as Messi but nobody except Messi can get away with it.

Usually the playmaking striker will have a good defensive work rate like Benzema/Rooney/Lewandowski to compensate for the fact that you ideally want two good goalscoring wingers around them.

With Zlatan the wingers needs to do a great job defensively, as well as being goalscorers and ideally also dribblers. Those type of wingers hardly exists(Robben, Ribery) and I think that is a reason why they don't play Moura who has been amazing when he's got the chance.

 

[United22]

Because in general thats the range of goals he has scored over his career after Ajax and prior to moving to France. Looking at his stats just at Juve, Inter, Barca and AC (which is the period i used to get my average range) he scored the following.

Juve - 16,10
Inter - 15,22,29
Barca - 21
Milan - 21,35

So i don't think i was being unfair to him to say on average he scored between 15-25 per season in this period, obviously there are one or two seasons where he scored 35 or 10 but those were the exceptions in this period in his career.

If you were to take all his goals in this period and divide by the number of seasons it actually comes out at 18.8 average goals per season, but seeing as he usually scored more than this and the season he only scored 10 at Juve was bringing down his average, i chose not to use this number and instead use the 15-25 range. How was i being unfair?


Maybe i am underrating him, but when i said i thought he would score 10-15 goals for us thats because i don't think he would play more than 20-25 games a year at United which would still be a very good strike rate.

Lets not forget he's almost 34 age catches up with everyone hes not superhuman. Moving to a new club and much more competitive league which is also more physically demanding than France or Italy in his mid 30's, do you really think he would play 40-50 games for us. I just don't see how that would happen personally.

You calculate the average by adding them all up and dividing it by 8. I'm sure that unless I've calculated it incorrectly, the average is 21.125 over those 8 listed seasons you gave. Also, there is a difference between a range and average. All you are basically stating is that he tends to score between 15 and 25 goals (excluding the upper values of 29 and 35 which outweigh the 10 at Juve in an average calculation), which is a range not an average, so to avoid confusion you shouldn't really be calling a range with a difference of 10 goals between it an average.

This is the bottom line, as a main striker he is likely to score probably 20 goals in any of the top leagues. Once again to put things into perspective, Didier Drogba who was horrible last season managed to score 7 goals in the season, so Ibra only scoring 10-15 is out of the equation. I guess it depends on how many games you think he would play, but he would definitely be playing more than 20-25, given that Falcao had 29 appearances last season

 

[stevoc]

You calculate the average by adding them all up and dividing it by 8.I'm sure that unless I've calculated it incorrectly, the average is 21.125 over those 8 listed seasons you gave.

No you are right i added a 9th season in by mistake, i looked at his wiki statistics late last night and counted 9 seasons but failed to notice one of those seasons was only 1 game at Barca. So fair enough it is 21.

Also, there is a difference between a range and average. All you are basically stating is that he tends to score between 15 and 25 goals (excluding the upper values of 29 and 35 which outweigh the 10 at Juve in an average calculation), which is a range not an average, so to avoid confusion you shouldn't really be calling a range with a difference of 10 goals between it an average.

Yes exactly thats been my point from the start, it was never meant to be exact. Only two of those seasons did he score significantly more or less than the range i posted, which is still a fair description of his goalscoring range over that period. Still not sure what the problem is?

Also if we are now discussing the differences between ranges and averages and how they should be properly labelled then we really are getting into pedantic territory.

This is the bottom line, as a main striker he is likely to score probably 20 goals in any of the top leagues. Once again to put things into perspective, Didier Drogba who was horrible last season managed to score 7 goals in the season, so Ibra only scoring 10-15 is out of the equation. I guess it depends on how many games you think he would play, but he would definitely be playing more than 20-25

Well i think you underestimate the toll the premier league would take on a 34 year old adapting to the league. He might make more than 25 appearances but like Drogba a lot of them would be as a sub, i don't see anyway a 34yo is starting 40 games upfront for Man Utd, it just wouldn't happen. Think of how many games the likes of Giggs and Ferdinand started at a similar age.

, given that Falcao had 29 appearances last season

To be fair Falcao was 28 for most of last season so 5-6 years younger, if not for falling out of favour he could have actually played more games.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Well i think you underestimate the toll the premier league would take on a 34 year old adapting to the league. He might make more than 25 appearances but like Drogba a lot of them would be as a sub, i don't see anyway a 34yo is starting 40 games upfront for Man Utd, it just wouldn't happen. Think of how many games the likes of Giggs and Ferdinand started at a similar age.

He's 33, and Drogba has done it quite recently, and to a high standard. Moreover, he played 30 games last year alone and PSG play Champions League, so hardly not at our level currently. Even out of 30 games, with his lowest goals to games ratio in a good few years, you'd expect 16-18 from that.

He's proven against the top teams, proved he can hit the ground running in new countries/ leagues and I'm not sure why you mention his age when his game relies little on pace.

 

[United22]

No you are right i added a 9th season in by mistake, i looked at his wiki statistics late last night and counted 9 seasons but failed to notice one of those seasons was only 1 game at Barca. So fair enough it is 21.



Yes exactly thats been my point from the start, it was never meant to be exact. Only two of those seasons did he score significantly more or less than the range i posted, which is still a fair description of his goalscoring range over that period. Still not sure what the problem is?

Also if we are now discussing the differences between ranges and averages and how they should be properly labelled then we really are getting into pedantic territory.



Well i think you underestimate the toll the premier league would take on a 34 year old adapting to the league. He might make more than 25 appearances but like Drogba a lot of them would be as a sub, i don't see anyway a 34yo is starting 40 games upfront for Man Utd, it just wouldn't happen. Think of how many games the likes of Giggs and Ferdinand started at a similar age.



To be fair Falcao was 28 for most of last season so 5-6 years younger, if not for falling out of favour he could have actually played more games.

The problem is that upon entering his prime, he has been a consistent 20+ goal per season goal scorer. These range and averages stats are useless when you don't take into account that he has improved as a player when entering his late 20's. He probably won't start 40 games up front but we should expect something like 30+ appearances from him if he was to come here.

You do seem to be treating him as if he is a washed up past it player like RvP; don't let his age fool you, he is still a player that is within the top 15 in the world, the same cannot be said for any of our other players (if we end up losing De Gea and Di Maria which is looking very likely at the minute). Every player is different, RvP will be as useful as a chocolate teapot when he reaches Zlatan's age and I don't even want to imagine Rooney at that age. That being said I don't see us fitting into our current playstyle at the moment so its all hypothetical

 

[stevoc]

The problem is that upon entering his prime, he has been a consistent 20+ goal per season goal scorer. These range and averages stats are useless when you don't take into account that he has improved as a player when entering his late 20's. He probably won't start 40 games up front but we should expect something like 30+ appearances from him if he was to come here.

You do seem to be treating him as if he is a washed up past it player like RvP; don't let his age fool you, he is still a player that is within the top 15 in the world, the same cannot be said for any of our other players (if we end up losing De Gea and Di Maria which is looking very likely at the minute). Every player is different, RvP will be as useful as a chocolate teapot when he reaches Zlatan's age and I don't even want to imagine Rooney at that age. That being said I don't see us fitting into our current playstyle at the moment so its all hypothetical

First of all i don't think he's washed up, secondly i think RVP still has a lot to offer i don't think he's washed up either. But it's unavoidable no matter how a good a player is once they hit 33-34 their game time has to be managed, with a few exceptions they generally don't start 40-50 games a season.

And i could be wrong and if he joined us he could start 40 games it's possible, i just don't think it's likely. Of course we will most likely never find out as it's unlikely we even want him.

 

[stevoc]

He's 33, and Drogba has done it quite recently, and to a high standard. Moreover, he played 30 games last year alone and PSG play Champions League, so hardly not at our level currently. Even out of 30 games, with his lowest goals to games ratio in a good few years,

Drogba quite often started on the bench though, were talking about the possibility of Ibra being first choice at United and starting every game something like 35-50 games next year.

Do you think he would be capable of that next year in the premier league at 34?

you'd expect 16-18 from that.

Yeah i said depending on how many games he played he would probably score 15 goals in 25 games.

He's proven against the top teams, proved he can hit the ground running in new countries/ leagues and I'm not sure why you mention his age when his game relies little on pace.

Not everything's about pace, if it was players could play to 50. The body ages your stamina and mobility decrease, you get injured more easily. These are facts that have happened to every player in the history of the game.

Some like Giggs have maintained a high level well into their 30's but they didn't do it while starting 40 games a year.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Drogba quite often started on the bench though, were talking about the possibility of Ibra being first choice at United and starting every game something like 35-50 games next year.

Do you think he would be capable of that next year in the premier league at 34?

Yeah i said depending on how many games he played he would probably score 15 goals in 25 games.

Not everything's about pace, if it was players could play to 50. The body ages your stamina and mobility decrease, you get injured more easily. These are facts that have happened to every player in the history of the game.

Some like Giggs have maintained a high level well into their 30's but they didn't do it while starting 40 games a year.

Why does he need to be fit for 35 - 50 games? Between him and Rooney, they'd cover 50 games, yes i believe that. If you agree he'd get 15 in 25, surely Rooney would do as well if not better as well in 25?. While the fact you succumb to injury more at a higher age is true, a few months ago he was strong as enough, a few months later he isn't withering. He is in good physical condition and you are reaching...

 

[stevoc]

Why does he need to be fit for 35 - 50 games? Between him and Rooney, they'd cover 50 games, yes i believe that. If you agree he'd get 15 in 25, surely Rooney would do as well if not better as well in 25?. While the fact you succumb to injury more at a higher age is true, a few months ago he was strong as enough, a few months later he isn't withering. He is in good physical condition and you are reaching...

He doesn't and i wouldn't expect him to. My original view was that at his age for 20-25 games a season it wouldn't be a good deal for United considering the wages he would want on a 2-3 year contract. The other poster i was discussing it with thinks he would start more than 25 i disagree.

And yes he still looked strong last season, but we've all seen it with players many times age can catch up quickly on them. Scholes looked great when he came out of retirement in 2012 6 months later he was done again, Gerrard looked good in 2014, last season his legs and mobility really went. At some point he will decline rather sharply i would prefer if that wasn't on a fat 2-3 year contract at United.

I also think it can't be underestimated how much more physical the Premier League is, some players in their 20's struggle to adapt. Optimistic to think a player in his mid 30's would take to it like a duck to water.

 

[NL Max]

For all the talk of wether Zlatan is still good enough or not, based on his personality alone I would find it very strange that this transfer would happen.

All signings under van Gaal seemingly fitted this no-whining, get on with your job players. This clearly is a requirement for the coach. Even Di Maria and Falcao as supposed worldclass players both are quite 'normal' off the pitch - Falcao is religious and a top professional and Di Maria to me came across as someone who loves the game and his family.

Zlatan recently said he would enjoy his fights with van Gaal if they were to work together, I doubt van Gaal feels the same. Zlatan doesn't like all the rules van Gaal gives his players, he thinks superstars need to be treated differently. Zlatan would leave the club after a year with van Gaal saying: 'He doesn't fit our philosophy as he refused to do what I asked'. Combine this with his age and I just can't see it happening.

 

[2 man midfield]

I know he plays for PSG... but I don't think that makes him French

I know i post on the caf, but that doesn't make me @7even

 

[sunama]

Everybody knows that Zlatan was a big headed player who wasn't good enough for the biggest leagues and somehow he floated around in big clubs and won a lot of league titles anyhow and became overrated.

I'm not sure if this is serious.

If serious: are you suggesting that for all his league titles in teams where he was the main striker, he got lucky? Year after year. And winning 8 league titles (I think that's what he's won)?
If luck is all he has, I would urge MUFC to break the bank and buy him, just for his luck.
I'd be happy to win 2-3 league titles in the next 3 years, based on luck alone.

Without doubt, if he arrived at MUFC, he would immediately be our best striker. This puts Rooney's position in difficulty, because he is the captain and so will play every game, if available. And if we are playing with 1 striker only, either Ibra would be on the bench or Rooney would play in midfield.

In any case, I cant see Ibra ever playing for us, for too many reasons.
Now if he did arrive, I suggest everyone brace themselves for some spectacular goals, spectacular bust-ups (with team mates, manager and referees) and brilliant interviews.

 

[Raoul]

We missed out on Ibra a decade ago. Couldn't been Eric 2.0

 

[Cal?]

I'm not sure if this is serious.

If serious: are you suggesting that for all his league titles in teams where he was the main striker, he got lucky? Year after year. And winning 8 league titles (I think that's what he's won)?
If luck is all he has, I would urge MUFC to break the bank and buy him, just for his luck.
I'd be happy to win 2-3 league titles in the next 3 years, based on luck alone.

Without doubt, if he arrived at MUFC, he would immediately be our best striker. This puts Rooney's position in difficulty, because he is the captain and so will play every game, if available. And if we are playing with 1 striker only, either Ibra would be on the bench or Rooney would play in midfield.

In any case, I cant see Ibra ever playing for us, for too many reasons.
Now if he did arrive, I suggest everyone brace themselves for some spectacular goals, spectacular bust-ups (with team mates, manager and referees) and brilliant interviews.

He's won 12!! Since 2001-02, he's won every season in which ever league he's played except 02-03 and 11-12 (both seasons he finished 2nd).

 

[Sarni]

He's won 12!! Since 2001-02, he's won every season in which ever league he's played except 02-03 and 11-12 (both seasons he finished 2nd).

It's actually mental that between 2005 and 2011 three different clubs won Serie A and all had Zlatan.

 

[Sarni]

BTW he's said that he wants to play in MLS someday, so it's very likely that in a few years MLS will have Ibrahimovic and then Ronaldo, possibly some more stars. With Pirlo, Lampard, Gerrard and Villa already plying their trade there it must be said that the league is growing in its status, even though they're all past their peak it must gain football some fame in the US.

 

[Cal?]

It's actually mental that between 2005 and 2011 three different clubs won Serie A and all had Zlatan.

Then he missed out on the best season ever by an Italian team in 09-10.

 

[Sarni]

Then he missed out on the best season ever by an Italian team in 09-10.

Yes, he did. Actually I am not entirely sure hey'd have won it with Zlatan, the workrate of their front line in that season was essential and teamplay that wasn't focused on a leader a'la Ibrahimovic was also key in their success. We will never know though.