No top tier attacking players have stood out in this tournament so far, unless you want to count Payet (and maybe Bale but his goals were both big goalkeeping errors). With Zlatan, there is actually a genuine reason, the Swedish team around him is completely dreadful (maybe Olsson aside) and their tactics are awful too. I'm not even sure why Zlatan hasn't retired from international football yet, I wouldn't want to waste my time playing with a team like that in my mid 30s.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic |United Player | See the thread in the United Forum
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He isnt a player who will be able to carry a team... not anymore at least. He is good at holding the ball up, bringing others in play and finding space to get a scoring chance. Problem with sweden is the rest are awful so they rely on him to pull something out of nothing which he is capable of, but nobody can do constantly.
What he will do at United is hopefully be a consistent goalscorer in the smaller games, flat track bully type. We lack that and its vital for a title challenging team.
What he will do at United is hopefully be a consistent goalscorer in the smaller games, flat track bully type. We lack that and its vital for a title challenging team.
The Swedish NT is dreadful both tactically and squad-wise, Zlatan is being used like Fellaini and is surrounded by absolute dross. This team would not have made it if the tournament was still 16 teams (as it should be but that's a different discussion). If people reckon we will give him the same support the Swedish team is then we have bigger problems than Zlatan.
Would love to see how many people downplaying swedens euros we're going mad over his performance against wales.
V worried if he's our only signing.
V worried if he's our only signing.
Still missing the bigger point guys. It's not that he plays in France, it's that he plays for PSG in France.
Good point.
There were numerous posts claiming that Zlatan raised those around him, wouldn't accept anything less than 100%. Now they're blaming his team mates. I'm not criticising Zlatan here, more the incredible overrating that's taken place.
And this point has been refuted by that he has been their main talisman and the catalyst behind their success like Ancelotti said.
Everyone needs quality players beside them to succeed. Ronaldo wasn't great against Iceland and he had better players.
Italy defensively are one of the best in the tournament. It wasn't a group where Zlatan was going to score shit load of goals.
Italy defensively are one of the best in the tournament. It wasn't a group where Zlatan was going to score shit load of goals.
There's no chance he'll be our only signing. Mourinho has watched every game of ours from last season and likely many more games from the season before, he knows what we need.
I don't rate Zlatan particularly highly, but our needs are perfectly compatible with what he brings to the table. We're not going to be on the biggest stage next season, so what he does or does not do at that level is not our concern.
Even if he comes up short against the best teams in the league, his contribution against the lesser sides, by itself, is invaluable. Flat-track bullies can earn you title-contending points in droves.
So do other players like Verratti, Marquinhos, Thiago Silva et al.
This criticism against Ibra to me is mind-boggling. When someone raise concerns and posters refute those concerns with validity, people continue to repeat the concerns.
Seems that people just don't like him as a person.
Seems that people just don't like him as a person.
There's a point to which can raise someone's level. Obviously Shaw's increased level will be maybe 100 times better than Martin Olsson. We have better players at United than Sweden do.
Our attack needs speed, agility, players in their prime. Players with low centre of gravity.
Our team needs to avoid being dad's army as much as possible.
Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Rooney, Young, Valencia, now Zlatan. Not good enough. It's mid-table material.
I was trying to go along with this, but it's doing my head in thinking about how it's supposed to work. My vote is no. I don't need to spend months trying to find solutions that aren't going to be there. We need a more dynamic solution. I've already posed these questions in the other Zlatan thread. But no one has offered a reply. No answers, no vote.
Our team needs to avoid being dad's army as much as possible.
Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Rooney, Young, Valencia, now Zlatan. Not good enough. It's mid-table material.
I was trying to go along with this, but it's doing my head in thinking about how it's supposed to work. My vote is no. I don't need to spend months trying to find solutions that aren't going to be there. We need a more dynamic solution. I've already posed these questions in the other Zlatan thread. But no one has offered a reply. No answers, no vote.
What's been refuted? He does play for PSG in France and there is a big gap between them and the rest. It's the most irrefutable fact in football.
We're not signing any of them though. None of them are near the end of their career either.
This isn't a criticism of Zlatan. It's just a massive over statement of his or in fact anyone else's abilities.
This is the thread though where I read he has different muscles to other humans(not even a shit Chuck Norris joke). So it's to be expected.
Why do you think he would be? We're clearly pursuing others also.
People say all sorts of nonsensical things here. For years, there's been a small coalition who didn't want Ronaldo back, and that was during his most electrifying years at Madrid. I think all of this stems from a delusional fantacism that bringing in established players impedes our ability to develop youth players (give youth a chance) and also undercuts a bit of subconscious FM muppetry where people fantasize about bringing in players who will stay with us for 7-10 years or more, which was pretty standard during the Fergie era. Basically, its people living in the past and unwilling to recognize that the Fergie era is over and isn't ever coming back.
Maybe he respects his country, teammates and fans and wants to still help them while he can, considering he remains their best player by some distance.
Good point. Ibrahimovic on a free will be a very good signing, even if he does not have the impact people expect on the big games. Against the lesser teams they will really struggle to contain him, as he has demonstrated at PSG, and in spite of his age he still has the talent to score a ridiculous goal out of nowhere, be it against Bournemouth or Barcelona.
Did I sleep through some sort of announcement where the club said they can't sign players in their 30s ?
Raoul fighting the good fight. Don't know how you do it but kudos. Zlatan will prove all y'all wrong i tell ya.
At this point in his career it should be fairly obvious what Ibrahimovic brings to the table but I'm constantly surprised to see how much he divides opinion particularly in the UK. Wether it's Ajax/Juve/PSG/Barca/Bayern/United etc the top teams in each league all regularly face the same problem on a weekly basis which is dealing with sides who routinely put 10 men behind the ball and play counter attack or direct percentage long ball football ala Allardyce. The most valuable players to the top sides are forwards capable of playing within these tight spaces/breaking those teams down and Ibra fits that model.
here's been a few comparisons to Cantona with most aimed at the attitde of both players but they aren't very different in football style either, Eric was a big guy with great technique who was capable of pinning back opposition CB's and bringing others into play with his vision and passing range, he's a very good finisher and ball striker too. Another asset they both share is the ability to play as a target man. Wether it's playing long balls out of defence to relieve pressure or using him to play direct in the late stages of the game when you need a goal he's a great option to have.
When you look at his particular skill set it's easy to see why so many top clubs have wanted him and why he has such a ridiculous record of winning the league at every club he's been. I think a much more interesting debate would be if his style of play is why his record in Europe in extremely poor in comparison to his domestic record.
It's not that he's never won the CL but he's never even been in a final and maybe only 1 semi final (although I could be wrong on that) which is a poor return given the teams he's been a part of. Almost every side to win the CL in the past 10 years (excluding any team featuring Messi) have been very capable counter attacking teams which doesn't seem to suit him and possibly why so many people think he's underwhelmed on the biggest stage.
For the record I'm very much in favour of us signing him. There's no way we can go into next season with Rashford as our only main striker when even a medium term injury could put the entire season at risk, SAF went into campaigns with 4 senior strikers so we certainly need some depth in that area. Both Ibra and Rashford will need to have their game time managed. Ibra is now 34 and never played in the premier league before and we need to be careful Rashford doesn't burnout. Seems like a no brainer stop gap to me.
here's been a few comparisons to Cantona with most aimed at the attitde of both players but they aren't very different in football style either, Eric was a big guy with great technique who was capable of pinning back opposition CB's and bringing others into play with his vision and passing range, he's a very good finisher and ball striker too. Another asset they both share is the ability to play as a target man. Wether it's playing long balls out of defence to relieve pressure or using him to play direct in the late stages of the game when you need a goal he's a great option to have.
When you look at his particular skill set it's easy to see why so many top clubs have wanted him and why he has such a ridiculous record of winning the league at every club he's been. I think a much more interesting debate would be if his style of play is why his record in Europe in extremely poor in comparison to his domestic record.
It's not that he's never won the CL but he's never even been in a final and maybe only 1 semi final (although I could be wrong on that) which is a poor return given the teams he's been a part of. Almost every side to win the CL in the past 10 years (excluding any team featuring Messi) have been very capable counter attacking teams which doesn't seem to suit him and possibly why so many people think he's underwhelmed on the biggest stage.
For the record I'm very much in favour of us signing him. There's no way we can go into next season with Rashford as our only main striker when even a medium term injury could put the entire season at risk, SAF went into campaigns with 4 senior strikers so we certainly need some depth in that area. Both Ibra and Rashford will need to have their game time managed. Ibra is now 34 and never played in the premier league before and we need to be careful Rashford doesn't burnout. Seems like a no brainer stop gap to me.
The fact is no one can do it at international level on their own. Ronaldo doesn't seem to, lewandowski doesn't seem to, Rooney in his prime couldn't. Muller does because he has Germany. The last 3 winners of the WC (Italy Spain and Germany) won because of good strategic team play than any one goalscoring hero.
What is it, two over 30's in the last twenty years? Blanc and Schweinsteiger? There's no formal policy but it's extremely rare. Why would that be?
Yeah I agree but the praise on here would suggest he can.
However I still think you can judge a player to a large extent even if the team around him is poor. You can still look at his individual work. He's just clearly not the type of player we need.
Because Fergie was traditionally youth focused - but Fergie is no longer here and neither is there any such policy. If Mourinho wants him he's ours. And besides, its not like we're signing Luca Toni circa 2011.
Valdez, Owen, Scholes (shut up, it counts), Van der Sar, Sheringham were all old codgers when you signed them.
It isn't just because of Fergie, no top clubs are signing 34 year old players. Not as their main man anyway.
I wasn't really trying to bring the conversation back to age, I think that one's been done.
90% of the reason I don't want him here is because of the type of striker he is. It doesn't matter that he's playing for Sweden, you can still see how he plays, what he does and doesn't bring.
Two keepers and Scholes. You're grasping here.
I'm not actually all that bothered about age but clearly there's a difference between a 30 and a 34 year old striker. Righting off a striker based purely on age is silly but so is pretending the ageing process doesn't exist.
@Raoul @The Stain
Happy to see you in the top 3
Yeah, the EPL is not worshipped all over the world despite the fact it is considered as the most entertaining league (many teams for the title race).
In France, almost everyone is sure he is capable to score 20-30 goals all competition with United (against 50 goals in 15/16).
Excellent post
Happy to see you in the top 3
Yeah, the EPL is not worshipped all over the world despite the fact it is considered as the most entertaining league (many teams for the title race).
In France, almost everyone is sure he is capable to score 20-30 goals all competition with United (against 50 goals in 15/16).
Excellent post
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He's the reason they are in this tournament @Dobbs, make no mistake there. So yes, he did raise a shite Sweden side.
However he's not a feckig miracle worker, he, like every other player needs better players around him to compete against superior sides.
Agreed. I've given up arguing with people who have just decide 50 goals for PSG means nothing and that 2 games in the Euros means everything
Good work @Raoul
Nonsense. Did George Best? Could Ryan Giggs? It's pure drivel @Dobbs especially when you make out he gets more praise than Ronaldo, Lewandowski or Rooney in his prime. All of these players were/are massively hyped and rightfully so, but at International level in a poor side, there's only so much you can do, no matter how good you are.
Now Zlatan raises Sweden as much as a player can, and he got them to this tournament, if you can't see what an achievement that was after actually watcing them and seeing how absolutely awful there are, I'd seriously question your knowledge of football.
If you watched the Sweden matches and expected Ibra to turn them on his own you are delusional
And he is quite clearly the player we need
Strange how you can watch a top top talent like Martial play like shit for a much better side and understand that's just football, but when a World Class footballer has a nothing game playing for a terrible side, you use that to show that he is not good enough.
Just odd it is.
Harry Kane and Ronaldo were poor as well. Both playing in far superior teams
Yup, and yet you'd take both for free for a season in a heart beat.
No-brainer for me, signing Zlatan will attract other players, will give us a focal point and will give us goals. Granted we don't know how many goals and we'd all admit it's not going to be anything like what he did in PSG, but the idea that he wouldn't score more than our top scorer this season (11 league goals) is just ludicrous.
Bit of a strange thing to say, and we've already signed a player so you have nothing to fear
Sadly Ancelotti and Mourinho don't have a clue because he's 34.
And to be fair, if one of Harry Kane or Lewandowski was our only signing this entire summer I'd be worried as would twiggy and every other United fan I'm sure, so that comment makes zero sense.
Thankfully as you say, we've already signed a player in a position we need and appears more than likely we'll be signing 3-4 more very good players. We're not gonna put all our chickens in one Zlatan basket, but hey, why give Mourinho the benefit of the doubt, what does he know about winning?
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